Victorians! discussion

With all the mood swings and hissing, M. Paul has hidden (or is it Lucy?) the fact that he is a good and charitable man. We also see Polly married to Dr. John, and the outcome of their lives.

1. Has Lucy fallen for M. Paul or is she still in love with Dr. John?

2. Why does M. Paul try to convert Lucy to become Catholic?

3. What does Polly mean when she says in Chapter 37 "But solitude is sadness".

4. Do you think we, as readers, will see Polly and Dr. John again?

As we move towards the conclusion of the novel, Bronte brings Paulina and Graham together. Who were once children together are now husband and wife. The third person of that childhood, Lucy, is now freed to love M. Paul without complication.

Bronte has earlier signalled the strengthening of the relationship between Lucy and M. Paul. In chapter XXXIII at the outdoor breakfast in the country M.Paul questions if Lucy were his sister would she welcome him home if he were to go away. Such questions lead Lucy to wonder "if it were me he wanted - me he was seeking... . he was going to tell me something. The relationship between Lucy and M. Paul that Bronte has been hinting at is now coming closer to the surface.

Structurally, I find this interesting. Since we are approaching the chapter where Lucy will learn that Dr. John will marry Paulina, Bronte has heightened both the tension and the truth of the feelings between M. Paul and Lucy. What was once an emotional possibility is now replaced by an emotional probability.

There continue to be overtones of the Gothic in this section. Chapter XXXIV finds Lucy, the innocent young lady, asked to deliver a basket to a Madame Walravens. Off Lucy goes into a threatening storm, crosses a "deserted 'place' " and ends up in a large room which was "desolate, and in the shadow of a coming storm." Lucy recounts how "[h]oar enchantment here prevailed; a spell had opened for me elf-land- that cell-like room, that vanishing picture, that arch and passage, and stair of stone, were all parts of a fairy tale. Distincter even than these scenic details stood the chief figure-Cunegonge, the sorceress! Malevola, the evil fairy."

It seems that the Gothic is never far from the centre of this novel. The school with its overgrown garden, its mysterious ghostly nun, the visits to and the secrets of the attic, the brooding Romantic man represented by M. Paul and, of course, our innocent and pure heroine aptly named Lucy Snowe.

Lol. This section was just so mushy!

Nearly the only thing mush-free was the dollop of religious contention. That's a interesting piece which keeps cropping up. Paul is a devout Catholic and Lucy is a confirmed Protestant. This is the 1800s and could represent a real stumbling block as we are beginning to see.

I found ch 37, despite assuming that M Paul is Lucy's intended love, heartbreaking for Lucy. Watching Paulina and graham fall deeper in love without anyone ever realizing that she loved him herself was particularly poignant. When Paulina is going on about how handsome he is and asks Lucy if she feels the same way, Lucy replies I never see him , she has trained herself not to look at him anymore, presumably as it is too painful. Paulina and Graham think her a little queer, but a good sort, as if it is unimaginable that a plain woman would have strong feelings herself.

I found the religious arguments an interesting historical note-this would certainly have been a barrier to marriage for devout Protestants and Catholics of the time. It will be interesting to see if Lucy and M Paul can sort out their differences.

Peter wrote: "There continue to be overtones of the Gothic in this section. Chapter XXXIV finds Lucy, the innocent young lady, asked to deliver a basket to a Madame Walravens. Off Lucy goes into a threatening ..."

This section reminded me of Pip going to see Miss Havisham. Except Lucy is much more cynical and Pip is wondrous.
Why do you think Bronte uses gothic elements in a story which is at its core about loneliness for me?

After Polly is the main character in the opening chapters I found the wrap up of her marriage to Graham a bit quickly done. It feels like it is the last we're seeing of them (which might not be the case), and although it is kind of sweet Polly uniting her father and Graham, I found it strange that Lucy is entirely separated from it, she's a narrator just watching.

On the watching theme, I found Lucy's dismissal of the portrait of M Paul love, interesting. From looking at the picture she decides that she's basically nice but dull. Is this a psychological protection against having competition for M Paul? A phrenology thing being able to judge someone just by looking at them? Or a key to Lucy as a narrator?

Clari wrote: "After Polly is the main character in the opening chapters I found the wrap up of her marriage to Graham a bit quickly done. It feels like it is the last we're seeing of them (which might not be the..."

I agree. I too thought that Lucy was kind of jealous of this “saint” and used whatever argument she had at hand to dismiss any superiority she could grant to that young lady.
I must say, for me it was kind of shocking; after reading Mr. Paul’s tragic love story Lucy immediately kills the sad moment with her “Oh! I’m sure she was nothing but another stupid school-girl”, maybe she was right, but I felt ridiculous for Mr. Paul’s sad past kind of touched me.

Clari wrote: "Peter wrote: "There continue to be overtones of the Gothic in this section. Chapter XXXIV finds Lucy, the innocent young lady, asked to deliver a basket to a Madame Walravens. Off Lucy goes into ..."

Hi Clari

In many ways I think the Gothic as a genre is often about isolation, alienation, and, with those component parts, will often be loneliness as well. To me, the Gothic is a genre that frequently incorporates the personification of repressed ideas and feelings and therefore our hero/heroine must work against the world around them and the emotions within themselves in order to conquer or realize their inner feelings.

Peter wrote: "Clari wrote: "Peter wrote: "There continue to be overtones of the Gothic in this section. Chapter XXXIV finds Lucy, the innocent young lady, asked to deliver a basket to a Madame Walravens. Off L..."

Ahhhh nooo, Peter spoiler! I haven't quite reached the end yet.
But really enjoyed your analysis of the gothic in Villette

Clari wrote: "Peter wrote: "Clari wrote: "Peter wrote: "There continue to be overtones of the Gothic in this section. Chapter XXXIV finds Lucy, the innocent young lady, asked to deliver a basket to a Madame Wal..."

Clari ... and anyone else who read my comment above ...

I am so sorry. I have removed the spoiler part in message 9. I will be more careful in the future.

Peter wrote: "Clari wrote: "Peter wrote: "Clari wrote: "Peter wrote: "There continue to be overtones of the Gothic in this section. Chapter XXXIV finds Lucy, the innocent young lady, asked to deliver a basket t..."

Don't worry, Peter, I know it's easy to get carried away writing about literature, I had to be careful not to write a spoiler in replying to your comment!

Remember, you can include spoilers but be sure to mark them