The History Book Club discussion

Sorry, I'm still working on getting the posting issues down pat...

To continue the discussion about the links between AtLWCS and by Jules Verne here are some additional elements :

Part 5, Chapter 81 (Grotto), page 259
(view spoiler)["“Feel this,” says Harold Bazin, and crouches and brings her hand to a curved wall which is completely studded with snails. Hundreds of them. Thousands. “So many,” she whispers. “I don’t know why. Maybe because they’re safe from gulls? Here, feel this, I’ll turn it over.” Hundreds of tiny, squirming hydraulic feet beneath a horny, ridged top: a sea star." - So I think this is a view of the city of Saint-Malo as the hundreds of snails, with the predator gulls refering to the Germans. (hide spoiler)]

Part 5, Chapter 89 (The Frog Cooks), page 284
(view spoiler)[
Also "The shell may be broken, and even portions of it removed, and yet after a certain lapse of time the injured parts will be repaired by a deposition of shelly matter at the fractured parts. “There’s hope for me yet!” says Etienne, and laughs" - This reinforces the idea of houses as snails, with particular insistence that the house at 4 rue Vauborel is to be viewed as a snail shell for Etienne. (hide spoiler)]

Then skipping ahead into Parts 6 and 7 (I may be jumping the gun here, but the spoiler tags are in place) :

Part 6, Chapter 99 (Making the Radio), page 311
(view spoiler)[
"Werner scans frequencies by feel. No squelch, no snap of Morse code, no voices. Static static static static static. In his functioning ear, in the radio, in the air. Volkheimer’s eyes stay on him. Dust floats through the feeble beam of the flashlight: ten thousand particles, turning softly, twinkling." - This is an underwater image. Also makes me wonder if there isn't a link between the Nautilus as technological wonder within the mysterious natural undersea world, and the technological radio within the "underwater world" of Saint-Malo.
(hide spoiler)]

Part 7, Chapter 109 (Grotto), page 341
(view spoiler)["In the damp box of the old kennel, the sound of the sea washes away all other sounds; she tends to the snails as though to plants in a garden. Tide to tide, moment to moment: she comes to listen to the creatures suck and shift and squeak, to think of her father in his cell, of Madame Manec in her field of Queen Anne’s lace, of her uncle confined for two decades inside his own house." - the author explicitly asks us to view the personalities in their environmental niches as creatures of the deep (hide spoiler)]

Part 7, Chapter 111 (The Messages), page 348
(view spoiler)[
"It’s as if the city has become a library of books in an unknown language, the houses great shelves of illegible volumes, the lamps all extinguished." Here the ambiguity between the books and their contents, introduced by the author in the earlier reference to the two parts of Twenty Thousand Leagues, has reached a new level. (hide spoiler)]

...and Response to Bentley
I agree, the Verne book may be worth rereading...although I think I have read it twice!

Some thoughts on the response questions:

Through Part 5, Chapter 95
(view spoiler)[
In the beginning of the story, we get a glimpse into the lives of Werner and Marie-Laure. Their worlds couldn't seem farther apart. Though neither one is rich economically, they are both rich in their experiences, the love of family, and their hopes and dreams for their futures. Marie-Laure is well cared for by her father, who saves all year to provide her with a Braille book to read, and the experiences she has at the museum are rich with enlightenment. Though Werner doesn't have his parents to care for him, he considers Frau Elena to be mother-like, and she cares for Werner very deeply and encourages him. In Chapter 10, page 25, Frau Elena says "But I believe in you. I think you'll do something great." Though there is no money to spare, she finds him an old book on electricity. And he spends his days exploring the world, along with Jutta, while wondering about everything.

The constant shift in timeframes, along with short and long passages, is done extremely well, and causes me to be so involved in the story, it is almost as if I am entranced watching a movie unfold before my eyes!

There are so many passages referencing the themes of light and spirals, it would take time to jot them all down. However, I find it interesting how these things can mean so many different things throughout the story so far.

Some examples are:
Werner- Part 1, Chapter 10, page 24
In describing these early days as difficult and lean; "But seven year-old Werner seems to float. He is undersized and his ears stick out, and he speaks with a high sweet voice; the whiteness of his hair stops people in their tracks. Snowy, milky, chalky. A color that is the absence of color." His disposition matches this, as being light, carefree, and full of innocence and wonder.

Marie-Laure- Part 3, Chapter 44, Page 134-5
"Whirled and smooth. A sculpture of vertical folds incised by a tapering spiral. The aperture broad and oval. She whispers, "A whelk.". And then; "Music spirals out of the radios and it is splendid to drowsy on the davenport, to be warm and fed, to feel the sentences hoist her up and carry her somewhere else." - at this point, Marie-Laure is needing to regain her sense of security. And as we later find out, she decides her code name will be whelk. I believe this is security and safety for her. Items from the sea, and even the sea itself. And the spirals enclosing her, keeping her safe.

The burning of St Malo- Part 1, Chapter 32, Page 95
"On the rue de la Crosse, the Hotel of Bees becomes almost weightless for a moment, lifted in a spiral of flame, before it begins to rain in pieces back to the earth." Here the spiral theme is used in the opposite sense than in the case of Marie-Laure. Things spiraling out of control, spiraling down in destruction.

The Sea of Flames- Part 1, Chapter 19, Page 51-52
Marie-Laure says, "I heard that the diamond is like a piece of light from the original world. Before it fell. A piece of light rained to earth from God."".

Frederick- Part 7, Chapter 94, Page 295
"On the table is a stack of paper, on top of which a thick and clumsy spiral has been drawn by a heavy hand." - the destruction of Frederick is so heartbreaking! And now he sits, brain damaged, drawing spirals over and over, as if stuck in a sickening circle of confusion.

I have bookmarked so many references to light and spirals that it is dizzying! It would be interesting if we all we able to somehow compose all these references and somehow see their various meanings throughout.

I believe as the book progresses, the stories of Werner and Marie-Laure are becoming intertwined ... Perhaps spiraling toward each other!

I think Werner was unwilling because he was afraid of being also chosen as a weak one, and being beaten. He felt a lot of guilt about choosing to go to this school, as he knew deep down that it wasn't right. He wanted to get back to Jutta to show her he survived it. Plus, he was being given privileges by being able to work on the math triangles and the radios, and he didn't want to lose that, since he hoped it would lead to better things for him. An education in the sciences, a better future for he and Jutta.
He wanted Frederick to feel the same way, so he was angry when Frederick didn't try harder to fight back.

I feel the description of Von Rumple as "...a black vine has grown branches through his legs and arms." is a great description. He is insidious and driven. He will find that diamond, no matter what it takes. Even as the horrible creeping, growing, spreading cancer takes over him. He believes the diamond will allow him eternal life.

(hide spoiler)]

I am still on "Week one" of this group read but....

(view spoiler)[I cannot help but notice how Marie "feels" the world around her and how Werner "feels" the problems he has to fix.

In chapter 3, page 11 (ebook edition) we have a description of Marie touching the model of the city her father made for her:

"Marie-Laure runs her fingertips along the centimeter-wide parapet crowning the ramparts, drawing an uneven star shape around the entire model. She finds the opening atop the walls where four ceremonial cannons point to sea. 'Bastion de la Hollande,' she whispers, and her fingers walk down a little staircase. 'Rue des Cordiers. Rue Jacques Cartier'."

Then in Chapter 17, page 54 (ebook edition) we see how she perceives the world around her:

"And there is no darkness, not the kind they imagine. Everything is composed of webs and lattices and upheavals of sound and texture. She walks a circle around the Grand Gallery, navigating squeaking floorboards; she hears feet trump up and down museum staircases, a toddler squeal, the groan of a weary grandmother lowering herself onto a bench.
Color - that's another thing people don't expect. In her imagination, in her dreams, everything has color. The museum buildings are beige, chesnut, hazel. Its scientists are lilac and lemon yellow and fox brown. Piano chords loll in the speaker of the wireless in the guard station, projecting rich blacks and complicated blues down the hall toward the key pound. Church bells send arc of bronze careening off the windows. Bees are silver; pigeons are ginger and auburn and occasionally golden. The huge cypress trees she and her father pass on their morning walk are shimmering kaleidoscops, each needle a polygon of light."

This is such a magnificent desription of the world. I envy any person, blind or not, who perceives the world in this way.

And then, in Chapter 24, page 75 (ebook edition) we have Werner fixing radios:

"Even in the newest sets, Werner can usually puzzle out a solution. He dismantles the machine, stares into its circuits, lets his fingers trace the journeys of electrons. Power source, triode, resistor, coil. Loudspeaker. His mind shapes itself around the problem, disorder becomes order, the obstacle reveals itself, and before long the radio is fixed."

Marie, becoming blind, was forced to develop a better use of her other senses which in the end gave her the ability to perceive the world around her in a totally different, more profound way.
Werner, on the other hand, has perfect eyesight, but instead of using it to solve a problem, he feels his way through it with his touch.

I think that, although our eyes are not blind, we are, in fact, most of the time blind because we see the world superficially, through our eyes only. (hide spoiler)]

Great observation Samantha!

No need to apologize. You're doing a great job.

My response to Geoffrey's post on Part 5-7

(view spoiler)[Excellent!! Doerr has done such a great job putting all of these spiral references in the book. This is a shape we find in nature and is a symbol he uses in shape and content.

There is another shape he uses as well. The triangle. Another shape found in nature and sprinkled through the book. (hide spoiler)]

Geoffrey wrote: "Sorry, I'm still working on getting the posting issues down pat...

To continue the discussion about the links between AtLWCS and "

Response to Betty through Chapter 5

(view spoiler)[Beautiful!! Great, great comments. I love what you said about it being like a movie unfolding. I can really visualize book as a movie playing in my mind. See my comments to Geoffrey as well on the spirals and triangles.

I really love that description of Von Rumple and you hit the nail on the head with that point.

This definitely is a visual book. (hide spoiler)]

Betty wrote: "Some thoughts on the response questions:

Response to Samantha through Week 1

(view spoiler)[Awesome job picking up on the feeling aspect as well as the puzzle aspect. I had not really thought/noticed that Werner was really working a puzzle too, with the radios, but you are spot on with that.

Light, spiral, triangle, touch. (hide spoiler)]

We are on to Week Three of our reading. This includes Part Six, Seven, Eight, and Nine.

Summaries for Part Six, Seven, Eight, Nine
If you have not read through Part Nine, you will want to hold off on reading this spoiler.

(view spoiler)[
Part Six
8 August 1944
Marie-Laure is trapped in the attic and hears Von Rumpel enter the house. She recognizes his gait. He begins to tear up the house, knowing that the stone must be there. Marie-Laure realizes what he is after.

Werner is trapped in the basement of the Hotel of Bees. Bernd is dying. Werner works on the radios, which may be their last hope of living.

Question: Marie-Laure is perched high above the streets and Werner below. Each are armed with transmitters and receivers. There is a space between them like a conduit in which their stories will cross. Did you catch this interesting situation?


A 1940s French antique oak wardrobe

Part Seven
August 1942
Etienne decides to help with the resistance. He employs Marie-Laure to leave the house each day or so and go to the bakery to order an ordinary loaf of bread. The loaves often contain a series of numbers that Etienne broadcasts through is transmitter. Along with the numbers, he is sometimes asked to pass along "mundane" information for people, then follows these messages with music. One time, Etienne allows the music to go on longer than usual and he dances with Marie-Laure.

Werner is working with radios to triangulate signals of people broadcasting codes, such as Etienne is doing. While working, he day dreams about his sister and another young girl.

Von Rummel continues to search for the diamond.

Question: Recall Mdme. Manec's story of the frog from Part Five, Chapter 89: The Frog Cooks. If a frog is dropped in boiling water it jumps out. If put in a cold pot and the water slowly heats, the frog will cook. Then review Part Seven, at the end of Chapter 104: One Ordinary Loaf. Etienne asks Marie-Laure about Mdme. Manec's frog story. "I wonder, who was supposed to be the frog? Her? Or the Germans?" Who do you think Mdme. Manec meant? Could it have been someone other than herself or the Germans? And what does it say about Etienne that he doesn't believe it is him?


A Opel Blitz 3-ton truck

Part Eight
9 August 1944
Von Rumpel believed the diamond must be in the missing part of the house. Marie-Laure is thirsty and hungry and wants badly to sneak out of the attic to get some water and open the can of food, but is scared to risk getting caught by Von Rumpel. Marie-Laure starts to read 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea on the transmitter.

Werner becomes frustrated when he is unable to find anything on the radio and contemplates death. He eventually finds Marie-Laure reading her book on the radio. She is punctuating the sentences that offer clues that she needs help. Werner continues to think about Jutta.

Question: Many characters put themselves at risk to do what they feel is right. What do you think were the shining moments? Who do you admire the most?


1940s mobile transmitter

Part Nine
May 1944
Werner's team is in search of those transmitting illegal broadcasts. He hears Etienne's broadcast but doesn't tell anyone about it, as he remembers Etienne's voice/broadcasts from his childhood. He goes in search of Etienne. Before he can knock, Marie-Laure opens the door and he silently follows her around town.

While Marie-Laure is out on her mission to the bakery, Von Rumpel approaches her when she comes out of the grotto. He questions her about her father. She eventually gets away from him and returns to home. Etienne confines Marie-Laure to the house and goes out for the first time in 24 years to take up the task of retrieving the codes. He is arrested. This part then closes the way the book opens, with the leaflets raining down from the sky.

Question: Why do you think that Werner does not tell that he has heard Etienne's broadcasts? Is it as an act of tenderness toward the man whose voice he use to listen to or because he doesn't believe that he's transmitting codes?


A WWII French propaganda leaflet suggesting people evacuate

by Jules Verne
(hide spoiler)]

Teri, the pictures make a wonderful addition, especially the leaflet. Thanks so much for putting them in this thread.

You're quite welcome. I'm a visual person and tend to go looking for stuff in the internet as I read books like this.

Geoffrey, good job on the citation, but you need to put the author's picture before the link as follows:

by Jules Verne

Thank you for making the correction.

(view spoiler)[In the chapter called "Blackbirds," Frederick hates his fellow students for killing birds straight out of the trees. I wondered if it was a literary nod to To Kill a Mockingbird because if anyone's guilty of killing masses of innocents, it's the Nazis.

by Harper Lee (hide spoiler)]

Interesting analogy Kressel but could you do one thing - make sure to place chapter title in bold and page number if available above your spoiler html. The chapter is in bold and not part of the spoiler.

We do not want folks to click on the spoiler thinking that it is for a specific part of the book and be surprised.

Response to Kressel on Part 3, Chapter 58

(view spoiler)[I had not considered that, but I see the analogy. Good catch. If it was not intended, it is a haunting coincidence. (hide spoiler)]

Geoffrey you are doing stellar. Yes, I understand - but a classic is always a classic right (smile)

Love your view for Part 5, Chapter 81 (Grotto), page 259

Part 7, Chapter 109 (Grotto), page 341 - your comment is excellent

Teri,

Thank you for letting me know. I am trying to use the spoiler tag, but apparently I am not doing it correctly! Would you be able to send me the directions for that again?

Thanks, Janet

Teri wrote: "Hi Janet ~

Your responses are not coming through. Are you trying to use the spoiler tag?

~ Teri

Janet wrote: "Vincent wrote: "First is just a comment on the structure of the book - it is very in..."

Hi Janet - Look at messages 3 and 4 of this thread for instructions.

You can copy and paste below to get your spoiler right:

<spoiler>Put Text Here</spoiler>

Janet wrote: "Teri,

Thank you for letting me know. I am trying to use the spoiler tag, but apparently I am not doing it correctly! Would you be able to send me the directions for that again?

Thanks, Janet

Ter..."

Hi everyone! I just wanted to check-in with you all and see how everyone is coming with their reading?

We'll be finishing up our reading of All the Light I Cannot See next week. Next week's reading assignment will be Parts 10, 11, and 12.

Chapter 56, page 187 (ebook edition)

(view spoiler)[ I was shocked when Sergeant Major Reinhold von Rumpel went so low as to threaten the two museum officials with harming their children if they didn't show him where the diamond is. I mean how can you threaten people with something like that, ESPECIALLY if you are a parent yourself? People are really monsters. (hide spoiler)]

I got behind in my reading because of a busy week at work, but now I took the time to finish the book.

Part Ten, Chapter 152, p. 449
(view spoiler)[
"Werner blinks up to see the Viennese girl in her cape descend through the ceiling as if it is no more than a shadow."
So the girl they killed in Vienna, she is like a harbinger of his own death, she echoes his sister, it is as if he killed his sister. What I find interesting about this is that this all happened months before his arrival in Saint-Malo, so all the events that happen to Werner in Saint-Malo, happen to a young man who is already, in some way, dead, or dying ;

"Emptiness and fullness, in the end, somehow the same."
(hide spoiler)]

p. 450
(view spoiler)[
"it feels as if  Werner has reached bottom, as if he has been whirling deeper all this time, like the Nautilus sucked under the maelstrom..."

- So we are invited to view Werner as Captain Nemo, whereas if we thought about Werner as a character in Twenty Thousand Leagues Under the Sea, earlier we viewed him as a Ned.

by Jules Verne
(hide spoiler)]

Part Ten, Chapter 165, p. 482

(view spoiler)[
"Why doesn’t the wind move the light?"

"But Werner has crossed the edge of the field, where he steps on a trigger land mine set there by his own army three months before, and disappears in a fountain of earth."

- One if the main themes in the book - why don't the things that happen to us, the way that we act and feel, why don't these affect our inner moral self, before it is too late?
(hide spoiler)]

Part Ten, Chapter 161, p. 469

(view spoiler)[
"When I lost my sight, Werner, people said I was brave. When my father left, people said I was brave. But it is not bravery; I have no choice. I wake up and live my life..."

Hence we are who we are, the things we do are because of who we are. The wind doesn't move the light.
(hide spoiler)]

I love the quotes Geoffrey from Part Ten - Chapter 161, p. 469.

Pamela wrote: "Thanks to everyone for the feedback.

Vincent, I definitely think you're right about the social programs developed by most of Europe after the war. Having gone through so much upheaval through both..."

(view spoiler)[more than a choice where to spend their tax money - a choice to impose the necessary taxes I think which gave the ability to spend them (hide spoiler)]

Up to Entombed (not including) pg 441 of Kindle edition

(view spoiler)[with no part extremely special we see two, no several youngsters growing up as occupying and occupied participants in war.

Werner is specially insulated, by his talents, from the direct action harmful part of being an occupying force but he is always thinking about it and what should his responsibility be. (Could Frederick ever have gotten this far if the other boys had not been set on him?) The Viennese girl onto Marie-Laure for him - finally getting him to not fulfill his military responsibility - letting his humanity responsibility win?

Marie-Laure had to start, accepted to start, to participate against the Germans and finally to share messages, music and readings to her countrymen in what seems to be her search to live in difficult difficult conditions.

One more youth to be mentioned is Volkheimer and his industrious continuing efforts to do his soldier's job. His decency is shown by his respect for and appreciation of Werner - to me anyway.

Etienne also finds his courage - or his reason - and his raison d'être - with and for Marie-Laure She, no not she, but her presence gave him his life back it almost seems but he had a life already so just enhanced (not strong enough a word and Englsie is my mother tongue) it.

Von Rumple is another sad case - a man given a job because he is the best qualified and making it his purpose as he is losing his battle with cancer. I can understand his want to have a success at the end. Earlier one of our participants mentioned that he had threatened harm to the children of people to get information but so far I have seen him harm no one - asking Marie-Laure, breaking things in his search, but causing someone to be hurt or hurting them - not him that I can remember - waiting them out is the "harshest" think I can remember him doing.

And I am really thinking I have to reread some Verne - but time is precious and HBC is a hard taskmaster.

Jules Verne

(hide spoiler)]

Vincent,

(view spoiler)[when Von Rumpel first came to the museum to see the diamond he threatend the officials with harming their children if they didn't show him "what they can't show him". I'm not saying he did it, but that to him, as a parent, that idea came to mind, is just horrible. (hide spoiler)]

It's not often I read a book that really gets under my skin.

Part Ten, Chapter 161, p. 471

(view spoiler)[

Today, I was standing in my kitchen, thinking about peaches, and for a moment I was really sure I had eaten canned peaches. But it was in the book, as if the scene in the book had become part of my own sensual memory.

"She dips in two fingers, digs up a wet, soft, slippery thing. Then he does the same. That first peach slithers down his throat like rapture. A sunrise in his mouth."
(hide spoiler)]

Geoffrey wrote: "I got behind in my reading because of a busy week at work, but now I took the time to finish the book.

Part Ten, Chapter 152, p. 449

Some really great thoughts and quotes, Geoffrey.

Responses to Geoffrey
(view spoiler)[Great observation on Werner/death/dying that I had not picked up. Another consideration to make on each character as we go.

I really need to go back and read Verne. It's been so long that I just don't remember the story.

Like Bentley, I really like that last quote/comment. It is what it is, what we make of it is determined by the person we are.

by Jules Verne (hide spoiler)]

Vincent wrote: "Up to Entombed (not including) pg 441 of Kindle edition


Responses to Vincent and Samanta

(view spoiler)[Great character responses, Vincent. I think you nailed them all.

I wonder myself if Frederick would have gone farther/gotten that far if he had not been picked on. I think he wouldn't. I don't think it was in his character to be a military person, especially in Hitler's Youth. I think that he went as far as he did because of Werner and a feeling of duty, maybe concern for what his family would expect. Or am I missing what you were thinking?

Rumpel - Evil man. I can see him actually hurting children if it came down to it. I think that nothing would cross the line for him, parent or not.

I wonder if the Author had another analogy here. Von Rumpel and Rumpelstiltskin from the fairy tales. (hide spoiler)]

Geoffrey wrote: "It's not often I read a book that really gets under my skin.

Part Ten, Chapter 161, p. 471"

I love when books have that kind of impact on you. Hopefully the end result is a positive impact after you process what you have read.

Response to Teri

(view spoiler)[I wonder if the Author had another analogy here. Von Rumpel and Rumpelstiltskin from the fairy tales

Yes, Teri! I thought the same thing but it was because I kept pronouncing his name in my head and the first association I had was "Once upon a time" and Belle's nickname for Rumpelstiltskin, which is Rumpel (hide spoiler)]

Responses to Teri and Vincent

(view spoiler)[
I love the Rumpelstiltskin connection - I would never have thought of that on my own. It makes so much sense - she's locked away in a high tower.

For the other questions about Fredrich and co., the book is clearly very much about morality, and difficult moral choices. I'm not sure I fully understand the role Fredrich plays in the story. He acts as a kind of guilty conscience for Werner, but I think you are right, he has his own story arc, and not an easy one. In some ways, he is the story's most enigmatic character. (hide spoiler)]

Rumpelstiltskin

(view spoiler)[Did someone bring up the analogy before? Was it you Samanta or was it an analogy to something else? I need to go back through the posts. There are a lot of these in the book and like Geoffrey, I don't always pick them up on my own.

I love Once Upon a Time, BTW (hide spoiler)]

Samanta wrote: "Response to Teri

"

I just finished the book this afternoon. I tried restraining myself, but then I couldn't hold back any longer, and ravished it.
(view spoiler)[I was very hesitant to pick this book up, since I have read so many books on the holocaust. I didn't think my soul could take any more of this type of pain. But I really didn't know very much about what happened in France. And I didn't know any details of the schools such as that Werner had attended.

But besides learning all about these things, I learned something even more important. I learned that despite there being many books written about history, it is vitally important to continue to write them, and to read them! Because it is vitally important that we never forget! This really hit home when I was reading about Marie-Laure in 2014, with her grandson sitting beside her, playing war craft and saying that "he died", but it's okay, because he can just start again. I think about all of the things that I know about in history, that my children didn't experience, and a few generations after that, these important historical things will just fade away, unless we read about them.

Another revelation I had was about how the Germans would feel after the war. Most things I have read were from the point of view of the victims. After reading this, I'm realizing that everyone was a victim. Werner would have loved to become a scientist or engineer, solving some of life's mysteries. Frederick was fascinated by birds. These two were such gentle souls, and yet, they were ruined by the machinery of war. It never really occurred to me that Germans now, might feel guilt ridden, wondering if they would be accepted by the rest of the world. Jutta's emotional state really struck a cord with me.

I picked this book up because I really wanted to read it with this group. And I am so thankful I did, as it was amazing. I cannot stop thinking about it, and it is difficult to pick up any other books at the moment, as this one is so profoundly on my mind. Anthony Doerr's writing style is absolutely superb! His writing was so beautiful, despite the ugly topic. I am even more grateful for reading this. (hide spoiler)]

Response to Betty

(view spoiler)[I am so glad you enjoyed the book! I agree wholeheartedly. Some books need to be read, others need to be read and discussed. This is a great discussion read and it is very thought-provoking.

I think we often forget to consider the people on the other side. They may be victims of war too, caught in a position that their government has put them in. Stories like this one help us to consider other angles.

I hope you'll continue to discuss with us this week as we move into the final chapters of the book. And by all means, join another group read. They are really enjoyable. ;-)

(hide spoiler)]

Teri wrote: "

Did someone bring up the analogy before? Was it you Samanta or was it an analogy to something else? I need to go back through the posts. There are a lot of these in the book and li..."

I think you were the first. I was just thinking it at the same time you did. :D

Hello everyone! We are wrapping up our discussion this week for All the Light We Cannot See. I'll be posting summaries and discussion questions later today. Here is this week's assignment.

Week Four - October 26th - November 1st

Part Ten: 12 August 1944: Chapters 148-165
Part Eleven: 1945: Chapters 166-167
Part Twelve: 1974: Chapters 168-177 and Part Thirteen: 2014: Chapter 178

Response to Betty
(view spoiler)[
I believe that the effects of the Second World War are still all around us, embedded in the fabric of our world today, but that with fewer and fewer people who were alive during those events alive today, we are forgetting just how insidious and pervasive those connections are. So yes, that is why it is important to read (and write!) about those events. (hide spoiler)]

Response to Betty

(view spoiler)[I cannot agree that everyone in World War II was a victim. Werner notwithstanding, most of the Nazis and their collaborators were out and out war criminals. (hide spoiler)]

Response to Kressel

(view spoiler)[I definitely agree with you! I was feeling pretty passionate when I wrote that yesterday, having just finished the book, and shouldn't have said "everyone" was a victim. But I do feel a great many Germans were victims and I had never before stopped to think about that. The Nazi regime was painfully frightening, along with the way they were able to take control of the communication so that people were not entirely aware of what was going on. Just follow orders and hope to live another day. (hide spoiler)]

Well said Geoffrey!

Response to Teri

(view spoiler)[I am definitely taking part in many HBC reads, as I love how this club is so cerebral!
And I most definitely will be writing more regarding this book. The story is still whirling around in my head and I need to get some distance from it first. One thing I pondered (and I'm afraid to even put this in writing), is how difficult would it be now to to take control of our communication? The thought is too frightening for me to theorize about. (hide spoiler)]

Summaries for Ten, Eleven, Twelve, and Thirteen

(view spoiler)[
Part Ten
Marie-Laure continues to be stuck in the attic when she decides to play Claire de Lune as loud as possible, knowing that Von Rumpel will hear her. He goes to the wardrobe trying to find where the music is coming from.

Werner and Volkheimer decide to blast their way out of the hotel. Once they are free, Volkheimer leaves and Werner heads for Marie-Laure's home. He rescues Marie-Laure. They wait for the ceasefire. Werner and Marie-Laure say goodbye, and Marie-Laure reunites with Etienne. Werner is captured and takes ill, going to a medical tent.

Question: Were you surprised that Etienne and Marie-Laure would return to Paris?


WWII American Field Hospital

Part Eleven
Marie-Laure and Etienne take up residence in Marie-Laure's old flat in Paris and keeps watch for her father.

We rejoin Jutta and the others from the orphanage. Russian soldiers find them working in a factor and rape the women.

Question: Why do you think Marie-Laure gave Werner the little iron key? Why might Werner have gone back for the wooden house but left the Sea of Flames?


Paris 1945

Part Twelve
It is now 1970. Volkheimer receives a backpack in the mail that belongs to Werner. He tracks down Jutta to return it to her. Jutta finds the model of Etienne's home in the pack and decides to find the girl Werner talked to Volkheimer about. She travels to St. Malo and Paris and finds Marie-Laure. She also sends the pictures of birds to Frederick, something that Werner had always meant to do.

Question: The 1970s image of Jutta is one of a woman deeply guilt-ridden and self-conscious about her identity as a German. Why do you think she feels so much guilt over the crimes of others? Can you relate to this? Do you think she should feel any shame about her identity?


1945 German Military Backpack

Part Thirteen
Paris 2014. Marie-Laure and her grandson are playing at the Jardin de Plantes. He is playing with an electronic handheld game and she is considering "is it so hard to believe that souls might also travel those paths?"

Question: What do you think of the author’s decision to flash forward at the end of the book? Did you like getting a peek into the future of some of these characters? Did anything surprise you?


Jardin de Plantes

Overall Book Question: Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn once wrote that “the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being.” All the Light We Cannot See is filled with examples of human nature at its best and worst. Discuss the themes of good versus evil throughout the story. How do they drive each other? What do you think are the ultimate lessons that these characters and the resolution of their stories teach us?
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Betty, I am so glad you are enjoying these reads. Some are just pure fun, but others have you really thinking and considering a multitude of themes/subjects.

Betty wrote: "

Response to Teri

I am definitely taking part in many HBC reads, as I love how this club is so cerebral!
And I most definitely will be w..."

Responses to Kressel, Betty and Teri
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While I agree with Kressel's point that many people, especially within the Nazi Party, were "war criminals", I think the dividing line is much harder to draw than that would suggest. Following the Solzhenitsyn quote (could you find the source, Teri, I'd like to look it up?), "the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being", it is rather too easy to draw a "them" versus "us" line in principle, and rather harder to do so in reality. I am reminded of the book The Perfect Nazi: Uncovering My Grandfather's Secret Past and How Hitler Seduced a Generation by Martin Davidson(no photo), in which Martin Davidson recounts how he discovered that his grandfather, who seemed a harmless and jovial individual until his death, turned out to be one of earliest members of the Nazi party and hence one of the real hardcore Nazis. Imagine Davidson's shock to discover that his direct ancestor was a through-and-through Nazi. His book recounts his research into his grandfather's life and how he himself came to terms with this history.

Lest this be viewed as an exceptional case, since I have started talking about my own writing project concerning WW2, many similar stories have come to light among my immediate friends - things most people don't mention commonly. My mother as a child in the Blitz in London was part of a group of children strafed by a German pilot - something she hid from us throughout her life, the information turned up in diary entries made by her sister after they both died. My Mexican friend's uncle and father emigrated from Spain to Mexico after their brothers were interned and executed. And most telling of all, an ex-girlfriend's uncle was a German officer during the war. Hence we are direct descendants of people whose lives were dramatically altered by the war, and these stories are far closer to home than we generally assume. Who was victim, and who perpetrator... and who both, at different moments? And how do we deal with the fact that we are descendants of these people? Doerr's book brings issues such as these to the surface, something we need to do much more often than we do currently.
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Reading this book, I've had an urge to re-watch Charlotte Gray with Cate Blanchett, based on Sebastian Faulks' novel. I love that movie.

by Sebastian Faulks

Geoffrey wrote: "Responses to Kressel, Betty and Teri"

(view spoiler)[Hi Geoffrey. I'm happy to get you that quote reference. The quote comes from

by Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

Also, please be careful of mentioning authorship. :-) It may seem picky, but it is one of the rules that has worked well for our community. (hide spoiler)]

Samanta wrote: "Reading this book, I've had an urge to re-watch Charlotte Gray with Cate Blanchett, based on Sebastian Faulks' novel. I love that movie.

by [authorimage:Sebastian..."

That's a new one for me. I'll have to check it out.

The thing that links these two books is WWII and most of it happening in France.

Response to Geoffrey

(view spoiler)[Geoffrey, extremely well said and such interesting information too! Thank you for sharing those anecdotes. I'm tempted to seek out the book you've referenced
by Martin Davidson (no photo).
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More thoughts on the book

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Have we really discussed why Anthony Doerr chose the title for this book? Or just danced around the question? Because as I was responding to Geoffrey just now, I realized that his response pretty much answered that question. What I'm thinking is the title is really referring to the light that you can find in all human beings, the light within them. This light may be very dim, almost imperceptible. In others it may radiate brightly. Nevertheless, it is there in all of us, and the amount of light we may perceive is based partly upon the persons choices and actions in life. For example, Werner had such a bright light in the beginning of the story, which all but got snuffed out by the end. That was a little "light" bulb that just went on for me (pun intended LOL) (hide spoiler)]

Response to Betty

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Hence the disappearance of the Sea of Flames, which is what, after all, but a stone with a luminosity inside it... a metaphor for all the light we cannot see, hidden inside each person (each house!)... the disappearance of the stone guarantees that we don't withdraw into misleading certainties. Great thought, Betty!
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Excellent comments, Betty and Geoffrey!