Catching up on Classics (and lots more!) discussion

This is our Old School Classic Group Read for October 2015.

Please use this thread for general, spoiler free discussion of The Return of the Native by Thomas Hardy

If you wish to discuss the plot in more detail, then please use the spoiler thread here

If you would like a free copy here are some links for online, kindle and audio versions of the book:

Project Gutenberg

Amazon UK

Amazon.com

LibriVox (There are two versions available, one a dramatic reading with full cast)

I hope you'll join us this month, happy reading!

Currently listening to the wonderful narration by Alan Rickman. He even sings!

Oh I like the sound of an Alan Rickman narration, especially with singing! Is that on Audible? I have a free kindle version but might have to consider buying that one.

I picked up the Alan Rickman narration, too. I really hope I find time to listen to it this month!

Yes, it's on Audible. AR could read a phone book and I would probably like it.

I'm only at 35%, but so far Eustacia seems like to share some character traits with one Emma Bovary... Let's see how it will progress...

Phil wrote: "I'm only at 35%, but so far Eustacia seems like to share some character traits with one Emma Bovary... Let's see how it will progress..."

Well that sells it to me...I liked Emma! I know nothing about this book, except that it's written by Hardy and it's one of his earliest works (I think) I'm also assuming it's sad or depressing, because, well, it's Hardy.

So far I really like the book. I also really liked Tess. This is my second Hardy. I just don't like the motivations of Eustacia so far. So far, she's pulled a really cool stunt which I like for itself, but her reasons for doing it... To me (and I repeat, I'm only at 35%) it's along the lines of "I'm bored...I cannot live without being in love...I only care about the intensity of the emotion, not of the person I'm supposed to be in love with...my lover is totally interchangeable...don't care if I hurt third parties in the process...the only person of importance is me...MUST find new object of obsession..."
Maybe I'm a bit drastic in this description. Maybe, because Emma Bovary is still fresh on my mind.
Is it possible for me to say that I liked the book Madame Bovary, but loathed Emma the character?

["...because, well, it's Hardy." => Awesome! and spot on^^]

I just started reading this and I now remember what I don't like about Hardy's writing. The first couple of chapters were incredibly boring, as they were setting the scene with such wordy and barely comprehensible language. I'm not even sure what was being said. The third longer chapter was better as we're introduced to characters, but I'm not really sure who anyones is yet. Still early days, so fingers crossed.

I felt the same with all the dialog of people I did not know up to that point.
I did like the description of the heath, though.

I'm at 50 percent now. The first few chapters are horrible. You cant tell whats going on and the local dialect from the lower classes is really hard to understand and off putting. Once you get to the meat of the story with all the triangles and intrigues it gets a lot better.

Hate how my e-reader dictionary defines words I dont understand with other words I dont understand. i.e. reddle equals ruddle, and furze is gorse. Really helpful there buddy.

Sylwia, I have the same problem with the free kindle version. A faggot is a ball of seasoned chopped liver, which I don't think applies in this context! Also for the first 20 or so times Thomasin's name was written as Tamsin, then it abruptly changed. It took me a moment to realise it was the same person, then I had to look up which name was correct.

I agree that the story gets better after the first few chapters. I've just started book two, or should I say Book Second. I think it's easy to guess what's going to happen with a couple of characters, but I'll have to wait and see how things turn out. I'm enjoying it much more than the beginning.

I'm so happy that I have the audio book! This makes it much easier for me to understand the dialects.
Since I never saw it spelled out, I never thought about the Tamsin/Thomasin difference.

Reading Dracula there were some few London workers which I had problems understanding. I had to read the passage out loud according to sound and only then I started to understand it.

I think it's really interesting that my listening competence could be better than my reading competence in any area.

How do you feel about that? Escpecially native speakers!
I'm not a native speaker and due to watching many films in English and listening to said audio books I do understand spoken dialect better than reading it. Is that different as a native speaker?

I am a native English (American) speaker.

When I read dialects from rural places in England in a book like this, I have imagine the sound of what I'm reading to understand what is being said, more so when I am reading "so-called" normal English speech.

And if this doesn't work, imagining the sounds, I read it aloud.

I'm English and though I don't live in a rural area with accents similar to the characters, I have no trouble in understanding what they're saying. Perhaps it's because I'm more used to hearing different regional accents in my country and I know what they should sound like. Wuthering Heights has probably had the heaviest vernacular I've encountered in a book, but I didn't really have a problem with that either.

I also had the audio book of Wuthering Heights. No problems listening. Maybe I should take a look at the text itself and see if I understand it...

I saw Far from the Maddening Crowd and Tess of the D'Urbervilles in movie form so Im definitely getting an idea of Hardy's playbook and he's sticking to it here.

I have read The Return of the Native twice. Once as a book on my reading list and the next time because it was mentioned in The Catcher in the Rye.

This is the quote:
"...Books not necessarily with a lot of sexy stuff in them, but books with lovers and all in them. Take old Eustacia Vye, in The Return of the Native by Thomas Hardy. She wasn't too sexy or anything, but even so you can't help wondering what a nun maybe thinks about when she reads about old Eustacia. I didn't say anything, though, naturally. All I said was English was my best subject. "

Now I wonder if you have run across a reference to The Return Of The Native in any of your literary readings?

I wrote about my interpretation of the book The Return of the Native according to Salinger's use in the Catcher in the Rye, but I have to tag it as a possible spoiler. So maybe you would like to look at it after you finish reading the book and let me know what you think.


I write about it here:
https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...

I have a desire to read this, but I'm struggling with the first chapter. I can't pay attention, and keep reading certain paragraphs over and over.

Andrea (Catsos Person) is a Compulsive eBook Hoarder wrote: "I have a desire to read this, but I'm struggling with the first chapter. I can't pay attention, and keep reading certain paragraphs over and over."

It gets better, but does lapse back into this style. I'm about 40% through now, but put it down for the evening as I was falling asleep.

I keep reading comments that the book is quite good, but this first chapter just doesn't agree with me.

I think chapter 3 is longer and gets going a bit more.

Thank you for giving me a "warning."

Maybe knowledge that the story improves at ch 3 will help.

:)

It took chapter 4 and even five for me to like it and even to catch up with what was going on. Im reading sparknotes after each section. Unfortunately its full of spoilers so I wouldnt advise it if you actually want to be surprised at what happens.

Phew!

I got over the hurdle of the first 2-3 chapters.

Chapter 1 was rough going.

Thank you Pink for telling me that things get better in ch 3. That really helped me.

I've completed Book I and I'm at 27% in kindle.

I read "Madding Crowd" this past July/August with two other GR friends and I'm seeing some preliminary parallels with this book so far. However, it's still early yet. I could change this view as I read.

Phil, in your question about written vs spoken English, in also a native English (american) speaker but I really hate it when they try to portray dialects in writing. I'm usually done with spoken forms but written is just frustrating.

I read Far from the Madding Crowd a couple of months ago too, which annoyed me more than it impressed me. I'm finding this book is getting better and better as I read, though I'm still not a fan of his writing style. I'm about 70% done now.

I liked his writing style better in "Madding Crowd" more.

Even his outdoor scenery descriptions were better--beautiful.

Here his descriptions are just tedious.

His writing style bugs me in both, but the storyline also bugged me in Far from the Madding Crowd! I think I'm going to try The Mayor of Casterbridge next, which sounds fabulously depressing!

Andrea (Catsos Person) is a Compulsive eBook Hoarder wrote: "I am a native English (American) speaker.

When I read dialects from rural places in England in a book like this, I have imagine the sound of what I'm reading to understand what is being said, more..."

I think that's an excellent approach. I've found that there are many novels, especially among the classics, that demand an extra effort to get at their genius.
Nakamura Reality

I'm about a third of the way in and I really can't figure out what the purpose of this story is. Nothing has happened.

Sarah,

I've Completed book 3.

In this section TH makes it clear that some of the things that occurred there are setting in motion some heavy stuff to come.

I am reading the kindle edition so I'm at 60% and will begin book 4 for my bedtime reading tonight.

Even without TH warning that some bad things are on the horizon, bad things for two of the characters is very obviously
" in the stars" for these characters that I'm thinking of.

Thanks Andrea. I think I'll take a bit of a break and then go back to it.

Andrea (Catsos Person) is a Compulsive eBook Hoarder wrote: "I've Completed book 3.

In this section TH makes it clear that some of the things that occurred there are setting in motion some heavy stuff to come.

I am reading the kindle edition so I''m at 60% and will begin book 4 for my bedtime reading tonight.

Even without TH warning that some bad things are on the horizon, bad things for two of the characters is very obviously
" in the stars" for these characters that I'm thinking of. "

Oh, good! At this point (38%), I'm all for bad things happening to the characters. Not so much because I don't like them, but because I'm not feeling much at all so far.

I'm listening to Patrick Tull's narration and reading along on and off. I'm glad I have the text. I was not familiar with the term "turves". I really thought I heard something like, "he lifted the turds and covered himself with them."

I was like, Say what?! That can't be right!

Speaking of "turves" Nathan, I stopped check my dictionary that keep in my iPhone I was very annoyed when I saw its meaning!

I read Madding Crowd this summer, and I've noticed that more so in this book, he uses a lot of words for things that I think may have even been obscure in the 19 C!

I was thinking the same thing Andrea. I was surprised when I saw that someone looked up faggot because i associate that with 17th century or prior. It's startled me a few times.

TH's word choices to use obscure words or use obscure meanings are very weird.

I repeat, he did not do this in madding crowd.

I wonder if it's a technique for this book or if it's because it's an early book? It's awfully odd to use so many archaic words, especially unintentionally.

That is a good question.

Wasn't sure which book had been written first.

Nope, he wrote Madding four years prior to this. It was his fourth novel.

Well I'll be taking off either a full of half star for his choices to use these strange words for things that could be expressed simply.

Somehow, this seems worse that he did this in a 4th book rather than a first or second.

It's like he's gone backward in terms of evolution of writing style.

It's definitely weird. I would think they would typically improve unless he's doing it deliberately for some unknown reason.

That's right!

I think and have read that authors improve as they publish more, evolve.

TH went backward.

Despite the annoyances of these weird words, I am into the story though.

Sadly, I'm really bored. I'm wondering if I would have been better off reading it than doing audio.

If audio isn't working, it isn't too late to read it (what is left).

My mind wanders when I listen to audio and my comprehension isn't the same as with reading, but I've only tried a couple of eAudio format books this year for the first time.

I may read some of it to see how it goes. I already own it so it doesn't hurt :)

So there then! You have a copy right at hand.

You won't have to look around the library or worse, spend money!

I'm at 75% now and I'm glad I stuck with it. It took me a long time for me to get used to the characters, but now I think they're all interesting. I like the setting. Hardy does a good job of creating a sense of place. All of the little pagan and nature details add a lot to the atmosphere.

Nathan wrote: "I'm at 75% now and I'm glad I stuck with it. It took me a long time for me to get used to the characters, but now I think they're all interesting. I like the setting. Hardy does a good job of creat..."

I echo your sentiment.

After I completed bk 3, I too was glad I stuck with it.