Space Opera Fans discussion

I don't enjoy listening to people to talk for hours and hours at a time, so I've never been able to get into audio books.

I still wonder if listening to audio books lessens reading comprehension.

From Forbes: Is Listening to Audio Books Really the Same as Reading?

I disagree with the article. When I read I actually "hear" my preferred reading voice in my head and I can focus on a word or phrase when I find it significant. On the other hand the audio book forces a voice, pace, tone, etc upon me. It also flows relentlessly on even when my mind stops listening while I think about something in the book, forcing me to rewind and re-listen.

Plus, as Jonathan says, simply listening to someone drone on, even when I'm not doing anything else at all, rapidly puts me to sleep.

I can use text-to-speech to edit my books, but that is because I'm doing one sentence at a time and thinking about the words and the flow in an active manner.

I have a very long commute. I listed to a couple books a week. I love them. It makes my time in the car feel less wasted.

Much depends on the narrator for me.

I also use text to speech when I do my final edit on works. Great tools.

I have generally not liked audio books and have resisted them for years. For most of the reasons that V.W. details. And I seem to get distracted pretty easily. It may not be more easily than from reading, but with an audio book it's harder to recover from the distraction, because stopping the playback, rewinding, and restarting is a hassle. Also, my ears hurt if I use earbuds for more than about 30 minutes. That might be solved by getting a set of high quality headphones, but those are expensive and I'm not sure I'd use them enough to justify the purchase.

That said, I've had a few recent experiences with audio books that surprised me. Amazon's practice of offering audio narrative for a substantially reduced price when you purchase a kindle book, so that you can switch back and forth, was very tempting and I've taken them up on the offer several times.

The one that was most successful was Old Man's War. I had avoided reading it partly because it was written in first person voice, which I usually don't like. But one day I decided to try it again and got the audio trak with the kindle. It was read by a beautiful baritone voice. I found that I really liked it. It was compelling and somehow intimate. Like having a friend telling me his story.

Another good experience is I Know Why the Caged Bird Sings. When Ms. Angelou died, I decided I really needed to read something of hers and that was it. Again, I got the kindle plus narration by the author. But the audio version is so beautiful that I'm rarely tempted to switch to print. The prose is so beautifully written and she has such a wonderful, expressive voice. It's taken me a long time to finish, because I only listen while I'm on the treadmill, which I avoid like the plague. But I'm enjoying listening to the book.

Anyway, while I still prefer reading over listening generally, I think it depends on the book and I'm willing to at least try audio books occasionally.

I enjoy listening to audio books myself. I've found that, especially with books I've already read, they often clarify something I missed in the initial reading. Though the voices used by the narrator don't always match what I've got in my head for the characters, a good narrator will often infuse more life into those characters.

On the other hand, listening to audio books has gotten me through a number of books I would otherwise have never read (a few to my real regret, though I had fun tearing them up in reviews). Brave New World by Aldous Huxley as read by Michael York was a trip (narratively that is) and the first two Foundation novels were interesting.

By the same token, I've listened to a number of JR Ward's gods awful Black Dagger Brotherhood books and do regret the time lost, but I really wanted to satisfy my curiosity about the series. Audio (borrowed from the library) was the only way I'd ever get through any of those books.

These days, I mostly buy the books I want. It's a great way to get in more books when I'm driving to and from work or doing chores. There are narrators' voices which are not really suited to whatever genre they're reading for, but those that do, are well worth the money spent.

Audios also call back an ancient form of storytelling in the oral form with a modern electronic twist. Humans will get their entertainment somehow. I also highly recommend full cast audio plays too.

I think it depends on the person. For example, I read The Martian in paperback format last year. My sister listened to it on audiobook while commuting back and forth across the state, so it gave her something to "do" in the car while driving. We went to see the movie together a couple weeks ago and both knew what was going on, what was going to happen, and what was supposed to have happened. So for her, listening to the audiobook was just as good as reading the actual thing. I feel like I'd personally have trouble paying attention to an audiobook unless I was doing some monotonous solo task (e.g. driving long distance). I can get more engrossed in a book when I'm hearing it in my own voice inside my head.

Like I said I think it'll just vary from person to person and depends a lot on the circumstances. I confess to having not read the article since I'm on my phone...

I made my foray into Audible books this year. I've heard 4 now. I love it, but I still prefer to read the books. One thing goodreads has got me doing is collecting quotes. It's difficult to collect them on audio books. Also, I just like to read. I like my interpretation of the words on a page versus a voice talent. That being said, I have enjoyed the audio books as well. They make my commute more interesting and I am an endurance athlete. Books on Audible have made my long runs on the weekend so much nicer. My favorite Audible recording this year was The Poisonwood Bible. I also listened to Hyperion and The Fall of Hyperion; all of which were really great experiences. Both mediums have a place in my world.

An alternate view point about audiobooks with which I agree: http://www.readingrockets.org/article...

When I was a kid, I absolutely refused to read, but I got lucky with teachers who would spend a portion of their class time reading books to the class and it helped. I wanted those visuals in my head. Audiobooks are just a nice alternative to that earlier time. :)

I agree that the narrator is the key to audiobook success. I work with an actor for my SFRs who really embodies my main characters vocally and it's such a pleasure for me to hear him bring them to life. I did a LOT of voice auditions to find him! I think he also does a good job with the secondary characters and varying the voices. I have readers who have said they buy the book or ebook, and the audiobook, and enjoy the story in both versions. I like to have my novels available in all possible formats these days! (Of course what I really want is a movie adaptation - who doesn't LOL?) Good discussion going on here...

Hmmmm, I think I have to step in here. If counted on a percentage basis approximately 98% of my reading is through audiobooks and I've listened to literally hundreds of them. I don't "sit" well, I'm always doing something and audiobooks give me the opportunity to keep on doing what I need or enjoy. I would, if I were such a person, wager that my comprehension of books is as great or even better than those using the written format. But...I have an advantage/ability that many don't....I love to listen, in fact listening to others is part of my daily life. I don't like every voice I hear either in person or in books; and if I don't care for the voice of a particular narrator, unless I'm actually listening to the book for a requested review in which case I simply must endure, I just stop listening to that book. It's as easy as that, and believe me I will write both my requested and personal reviews with said irritating voice in mind.

I must take exception with Jonathon's statement "I still wonder if listening to audio books lessens reading comprehension." Excuse me, did you really say that? How do you teach children to read? Would you have the audacity to make such a statement to a visually impaired, or to put it less politically correct, blind person?

Children who are read to consistently by others have a love of reading and can comprehend words far and above children not read to. Now, in time children can learn later at school and comprehend just fine, but imagine how much more a young child could learn if they read at an earlier age. If the adult (presumably, but many young children read to their siblings) using intonation and pronunciation reads consistently to even an infant that child can, if they have no learning disabilities that may hinder comprehension, by the time they are say 2 just to round things out memorize a story and tell you when you skip pages. They will also read the words of each page from memory without help, and memorization is the key to learning to read.

Do I feel children should only listen to audiobooks and not read? No. But with our working families and latch key kids society maybe reading the book AND listening to the book will help a child read better than reading the written word alone and by themselves. They can get the pronunciation of words (admittedly a few narrators are not good at pronunciation but the vast number of narrators are) as well as not struggle with words that may be too difficult for them. If the struggle is too great then undoubtedly this will cause our children to quit reading. Also, children are far more likely to use words and phrases in proper context when they hear how those are used.

The article in question does not say that comprehension is hindered she is making comparisons that she admits are not really possible to make. Now, I do not listen to audiobooks while I am on the computer, paying bills, or having to use my brain for exacting purposes but then neither does one who visually reads when doing the same. I want to hear every word that is being spoken because for so many years I truly read no more than one book a year, if that. With audiobooks whole new worlds have opened up to me and I intend to keep learning and enjoying every moment of every genre possible. Granted I may have to wait for some audiobooks to be published because the process takes longer than putting words to paper, but I will do that. If a book were to have pictures along with it then I can find an e-book or go to a library and view those if I feel it necessary.

If you are fortunate enough to be imaginative with all your senses as I and I'm sure millions are, then no matter which way one "reads" there will be no problem. If you don't like listening to other people, well you either are self-centered or haven't yet developed the ability to find meaning in the words of others. If you are self-centered then nothing anyone says to you really matters, if on the other hand you haven't yet developed the ability to listen well, then train yourself to do so.

Jonathon and all hesitant about audiobooks, since this is a Space Opera group might I suggest a new book for you to try? I have no investment in this book but having truly enjoyed it. The Truth Beyond the Sky by Andrew M. Crusoe may be the perfect book for hesitant audio space readers. I found narrator Jeff Hays to have done a superb job of literally bringing the author's words to life. Here's a link to a YouTube trailer and you can also read my review. http://youtu.be/lw01D7-YE-E

The listened to word is no less profound then the written word. With each we stop and start at our choosing and with each we invest ourselves at the level we choose. Don't consider me less of a person because I choose to listen and I won't consider you less because you choose not to.

For me personally audio books are really a non-starter. I much prefer the idea of sitting down with the actual book and reading it (I can see myself using an e-reader but that is still a book of sorts). If I am travelling I am more likely to want to listen to some music then someone reading me a story. If I were driving the last thing I want is to put on an audio book. I need to concentrate on the driving, not on a book being read to me.

Some authors like Orson Scott Card actually say that you should listen to their books.

I would never sit down and read a book...but after listening to 50+ books I can now say that I have "read books." I believe strongly in allowing other mediums for people to be subjected to these great works.

Matthew wrote: "Some authors like Orson Scott Card actually say that you should listen to their books.

I would never sit down and read a book...but after listening to 50+ books I can not say that I have "read books"..."

So you don't respond to the books you've listened to? You don't learn anything from them or come away with new thoughts or ideas about whatever the theme of the book was?

People have such low opinions about audiobooks I just don't get. I get reading to oneself, I do it all the time, but there was a time when books were read aloud to an audience (esp. in a time when literacy was not as it is now) and there was no stigma associated with having to listen to a book.

I personally enjoyed having books read to me as a kid and still do and have a great deal of respect for people who can read texts aloud for other people. It's an ability I lack. I actively listen to new books, and I will relisten to older books because I find the cadence of the words a nice background to whatever I'm doing.

When I put on some music as background it becomes just that, background. I will be doing something while listening and suddenly realize several songs have played without me knowing it. There is no sense in putting an audio book on if that is going to be the case. If I am going to have to listen intensely I would rather put some background music on and sit down with an actual book and read it.

I love listening to audiobooks, I have lots of long drives on the highway and it's perfect for that. For people struggling with audiobooks mess with the speed of the narrator, I actually tend to have an easier time focusing when the speed is 1.25x or 1.5x depending upon the narrator. Narrator quality is pretty much everything though, a good narrator can really help make a story exciting. One of my friends I turned on to audio books about 2 years ago and he was dubious at first, but now he vastly prefers audiobooks and will groan and complain if he had to checkout the book because the library didn't have the audiobook.

I don't listen to many audioboooks myself, but I cannot agree with people who say that audiobooks are not "reading" or that listening to audiobooks is "cheating". That's ridiculous. It's just an alternate method. Each person should be able to pursue their love of books in the way they most enjoy. Without value judgments by other people.

Lori S. wrote: "Matthew wrote: "Some authors like Orson Scott Card actually say that you should listen to their books.

I would never sit down and read a book...but after listening to 50+ books I can not say that ..."

My bad not=now I strongly believe that audio books help people who are "non readers" and now I am a reader! I have to believe listening for me, is just like reading.

My preferred form is reading, but when I've had a long drive someplace then I have no qualms about listening to an audiobook in the car. I do agree that it's harder to find your place again if your mind wanders.

I can listen to talks, lectures, discussions, etc., but a novel requires too much focus on the setting, mood, plot, and so on for me to listen while doing something else.

When I read, it is almost like watching a film. My mind takes the words and uses it to create a complete experience including different voices, and an audio rendition is actually a distraction from this.

I'm primarily an audio book reader, because as long as I'm studying, I simply don't have time for sitting down and reading for my pleasure... the only time I can steal time for literature is when I'm doing something else, like going the gym or trying to fall asleap.

In my experience, whether audiobooks work for you depend on the book and you:
If the book is very complex, if you need to re-read sentences or even flip back and check up stuff, it won't work. For detective stories simply doesn't work for me. Likewise, if the book has long passages of inane stuff that you'd rather skip through, it's annoying to be stuck in (the Bible has some really long passages of boring stuff for instance).
Straight-forward books with relatively few protagonists and call-backs to stuff happening much earlier in the book can be very enjoyable experiences, while you're doing something else.

The other factor is you. It was something I discovered with an annoying boss, back when I worked as an archaeologist. He didn't want me to listen to audio books because he didn't believe I was working as effectively as I would have otherwise.
The difference between him and me is that I get extremely bored and actually demotivated, if I'm stuck with some menial task like going to the gym, doing the dishes, laundry or shovelling dirt for hours on end.
And he was the type that didn't talk while walking, and actually stopped if he had to consider a complex question.

I agree that you will probably miss some nuances in some books, and I'd personally like to select some books for visual reading once I get more free time.
But if you are not able to chew gum and walk at the same time, you are basically not qualified to judge other people's benefit from audio books.

I could walk and chew gum at the same time but I don't (mostly because I don't chew gum period). I frequently walk while having a cup of coffee. However what I can't do is totally concentrate on two things at the same time. If I have my music on while doing something else then my mind shoves the music to the back and the other item is front and center. The same would be the case with audiobooks.

Comprehension of abstractions such as language are bound to highlight preferences. Some people prefer visual absorption while others would rather listen. The two mediums both have room for criticism. Listening can be difficult if you don't enjoy the readers performance or the technology you are using to listen. Reading runs into problems if the grammar offends your/you're intellect or has physical/stylistic barriers like font, word size, book condition and more. We could go one step further and move on to combining the two into an audio/visual abstraction which we call film or television, and again there is plenty of room for criticism. My bias? I've learned to perform remedial tasks while listening to books. The more remedial the easier it is to listen. Driving and listening can be somewhat of a challenge in L.A. traffic or not if it's simply the normal parking lot. Long trips without many distractions are easiest. I hate that this will be an advertisement, but Audible has been a good experience for me. Proud member. Rewinding, fastwarding, note taking and bookmarking are great functions that can help active listeners save quotes and record thoughts on particular passages or ideas.

For reading I have to be in a quiet place or have some sort of white noise to drown out other sound distractions. The key for both seems to be sense emersion. I haven't used my iPad to read a book yet, but I did research extensively in college using my labtop. Adobe reader is another great tool to be able to highlight, or take notes on passages/ideas from the many online journals and digital libraries that offer the pdf format. Surely other reader systems are good, like amazons kindle, Barnes & Nobles Nook, and other Mac and Microsoft products I just haven't used them much. Basically, the format isn't as important as your enjoyment is in the product. Read on, Listen on, do what cha like. ✌

I used to tape my law school lectures, as well as buy the 'law school lecture topics on tape' to listen to in the car, while cleaning, while knitting late at night long after my brain had shut down and I couldn't see the alphabet well enough to read another 18th Century supreme court case about foxes and adverse possession :-P

I noticed two things about learning via audiocassette ('cause yes, they were CASSETTES back then!)

1. I had to listen to the tape 2-3 times to 'get' the lesson because my mind kept wandering, though that was often a function of how boring the source material was and the fact I often listened while scrubbing out my toilet, which was more pleasant than listening to Marbury vs. Madison;

2. After listening, the reading went a lot easier (cause I still had to READ the cases and answer questions).

3. Stuff I had listened to on tape used to just spew forth like manna from heaven when getting Socratically tortured by Professor Sullivan (god rest her) about the Uniform Commercial Code in front of the entire class. I'm one of the few students that ever got an A from her. So while I didn't THINK that I was paying all that much attention to the stuff going on in the background, it -did- filter in after listening to the same lecture 2-3 times. Special bonus ... my bathroom was always sparkling clean.

Since then I mostly just listen for pleasure, but I recently took one of those online marketing courses which I downloaded to USB and then played the audio on a long car trip ... with about the same result ... 2-3 times listening on a 1600-mile r/t drive and the good stuff stuck around even though I don't recall actually paying attention to half of it.

Anna wrote: "...Socratically tortured"

Heh :)

Interesting observations about listening to the same lectures multiple times... I generally find it hard to listen to complex (and boring) nonfiction, but some of the lectures from The Teaching Company that doesn't require video are extremely interesting and inspiring (such as Introduction to Psychology and History of Philosophy), and I learned most of the things I know about Game Theory from those as well.

I recall in The Monkey's Uncle the character played by Dean Jones taught a chimpanzee to do basic actions by having it listen to recorded instructions while it was asleep, to resounding success. He then taught a couple of college football players the same way so they could pass their exams. (I will resist from making any comparisons between the chimp and the athletes).

I prefer reading myself, but since I have a Kindle, Amazon's Whispersync for Voice and reduced prices for the audiobook version if you own the Kindle version, I often continue reading when commuting or walking the dog or doing the dishes. As a secondary backup way of reading it's great.

Several thoughts came to me reading through the above:

1) Audiobooks work extremely well with people who have reading impairments. For those with dyslexia, for example, it's a godsend.

2) OTOH people with attention deficit disorder are going to find audiobooks hard to follow ... but then again they may also find reading books to be difficult.

3) Voice acting is paramount to my ability to follow and like audiobooks. For example, I've tried to listen to some short stories posted to youtube (LibriVox recordings of public domain stories) narrated by random readers. Can't do it. They're horrible and it puts me right off the whole thing. OTOH, I've also heard some read by professional actors like David Suchet and Hugh Fraiser (actors who starred in Miss Marple and tons of other stuff) ... Total joy to listen to.

4) Unless an audiobook is read by a highly skilled voice actor, or unless the book I'm reading is more entertaining than well-written, I much prefer the printed form myself because when I find an extremely well crafted sentence or paragraph, I luxuriate in it, reading it over and over, deconstructing it and trying to discover what makes it work so well. That's difficult and non-intuitive to do with an audiobook.

I read very slowly because I voice all the actors and the narration in my head. So when I read a book, I'm actually listening to an audiobook in my head. I haven't been able to do that in reverse.

I consume my books via e-book (Kindle), book, and audiobook.

I like audiobooks. A lot. I have been a subscriber to Audible for YEARS. I especially like the twinning of books via Audible and Amazon so that you can switch back and forth seamlessly.

Reasons I use audiobooks:

- I listen to them while sitting outside with my dog.
- I listen while suffering from migraines and/or sinus headaches. I can't hardly even open my eyes so audiobooks are ideal for this.
- I like audiobooks if the book has a lot of hard words to pronounce.
- There are also some audiobooks that are even better than print. Some aren't so much narrated as performed. Some narrators are so good with some series it just isn't the same to read. Examples: Susan Ericksen in the In Death series by J.D. Robb; James Marsters in The Dresden Files by Jim Butcher.

Kirsten *Dogs Welcome - People Tolerated" wrote: "Some narrators are so good with some series it just isn't the same to read. Examples: Susan Ericksen in the In Death series by J.D. Robb"

I disagree. I think Ericksen's narration of Robb's series is terrible. Her voice is harsh, unpleasant to listen to, and her Irish accent for Roarke is way too pronounced.

I will have to beg to differ. I wonder if you're the person one of the mods in the JDRobb group told us about that gave up on the series because of the narrator? If so, don't! The books are wonderful. I just happen to think the audiobooks are wonderful. But that's just me.

No, I love the series. I only tried the audio version of one of the short stories because it wasn't available in kindle version except in an anthology.

I actually hate it when the reader do more than a bare minimum of voice acting. For practical reasons, sine I don't want somebody suddenly yelling at me when I'm trying to fall asleep, or if the reader start whispering, when I'm sitting on my bike and it is already hard to hear what is being read due to heavy traffic.

And radio plays are the worst

For some reason I always have differentiated radio shows from audio books. I actually have quite a few different shows in my library but I don't think of them as books, probably because most of them are about a half hour in length. The few hour shows I have are mostly music (save for a few movie adaptations). I also have a few of the old Power Records stories on my computer but then those are only about 15 minutes in length so those really don't count.

I wrote an article for the next issue of SFR Quarterly about audiobooks, interviewed some other SFR authors (and myself LOL since I have 3 SFR audiobooks out)...wish I could have included some of this excellent discussion, especially as far as times people like to listen to audiobooks! But we did all consense on the importance of the narrator so it's good to see that conclusion reconfirmed here. If I write another article on the subject, which I probably will, I'll definitely come and ask for input from this group too.

Niels wrote: "...some of the lectures from The Teaching Company that doesn't require video are extremely interesting and inspiring ..."

I love The Teaching Company! :-) I must have burned through three dozen of their mega-courses back when I worked long-distance from my home and had a couple of hours a day to kill in the car. Learned to speak passably decent Russian in the car as well (Pimsleur). But now I work from home so my 'commute' is from my bed to my desk 3:-)

John wrote: "For some reason I always have differentiated radio shows from audio books. I actually have quite a few different shows in my library but I don't think of them as books, probably because most of the..."

I don't think of them as books as they are adaptations and may not have all the text.

Do they still do radio drama. I was admittedly thinking of OTR material here, and a fairly good chunk of that was original material although there are exceptions. I know the SF shows Dimension X and X Minus 1 adapted short stories, and there was a show hosted by John W. Campbell that I think used Astounding as its source for material. But other shows used scripts written for the show even if based on an existing property, sometimes with amusing results. The Shadow is a case in point where the radio show worked on the premise that The Shadow and Lamont Cranston were the same person which was not the case in the magazine, and the character of Margo Lane (a relative of Lois perhaps?) who was a regular on the show certainly is not in any of the magazine stories I have read. If I get the time maybe I will take a look and see what shows used adaptations and which ones didn't and which are impossible to tell. Referring only to the SF shows of course.

I think it depends on the person.
I, for instance, can't focus very well while reading and my reading memory is not very good either. But those are not issues when I'm listening to audiobooks.I maintain focus and memory.
But it makes sense to prefer reading if someone can't maintain focus while listening.

My sister when she went to college was diagnose with a learning disorder. It turned out she soaked up information from the text better if it was spoken to her. The school actually had a program for people like her and she could go and get tapes.

I enjoy reading both books and audio books, however my enjoyment is dependent on the narrator. Some just don't do the story much justice.

Something that always trips me up is when a male narrator tries to do a female voice. For the most part they sound fake and ridiculous.
That being said I recently listened to an audio book with a guy narrator reading a female MC (the book is written in 3rd person) and have to say I was pleasantly surprised
.
Just out of curiosity is this common practice? Male narrators reading 3rd-person MC's? And if you've read/listened to any, has it made a difference to how the story read? (not to try hijack the thread or anything)

S.J. wrote: "I enjoy reading both books and audio books, however my enjoyment is dependent on the narrator. Some just don't do the story much justice.

Something that always trips me up is when a male narrator..."

I agree that my enjoyment of an audiobook is very much dependent on the narrator. Since I started listening to audiobooks more often, my choice of books to listen to is heavily influenced by the the narrator. I tend to seek out books that are narrated by people that I like. If I don't like a narrator, I will stop listening.

S.J. wrote: "Something that always trips me up is when a male narrator tries to do a female voice. For the most part they sound fake and ridiculous."

Why is a male narrator doing a female character any worse than a female narrator doing a male character?

I've got 3 science fiction novels that are also available as audiobooks, and when I did the audition script for the first book I made sure to use a scene that included a range of characters' dialog, including a woman's. (The first book was all from the hero's POV, hence I wanted a guy to narrate.) I love the way my narrator Michael Riffle handles all the voices. He doesn't do falsetto or anything ridiculous but you do know when he's reading the female's lines. Being a trained actor, he's got major skills. He's my narrator now for all my SFR. We did one with him and an actress, who narrated the heroine's lines, because that book split the POV, It was so much fun (for me) to listen to them doing dialog with each other!

I definitely agree with the other commenters that the narrator is the key to the audiobook's success. Assuming there's a good story to start with!

I think it's also that the narrator's style of reading should fit the book's tone as well. For instance, my copy of Starship Troopers on tape has a very dry narrator (cannot recall his name for the life of me), but it fits the very matter-of-fact way that the book is written. On the flip side, Barbara Rosenblat reading Elizabeth Peters' Amelia Peabody Mysteries series does such a phenomenal job making every character spark to life that you could swear there's more than one reader for the audiobooks. This works well with the sharp wit and vibrant character interactions of the series.

I'm in complete agreement with you on the narrator being key. The reader for Owen Parry's Abel Jones books is wonderful. But there have been others, and unfortunately they escape me at the moment, who were bad to the point that I almost didn't finish listening to the book.