SciFi and Fantasy Book Club discussion

Hi, newbie here, apologies in advance. One of the joys of reading Sci Fi/Fantasy for me are thrilling descriptions of battle and confrontation. Just wanted to get others opinions here as to what is the best battle sequence you have ever read?

For me, the battle of Dumai's wells in Robert Jordan's Lord of Chaos - sheer madness!

Honourable Mentions:

- Battle of Garrotting Deep - Illearth War, Stephen Donaldson

- Battle of Blackwater - (Can't remember the book) in George RR Martin's a Song of Fire and Ice - although I was cheering for Stannis.

- Final Battle in Stephen Donaldson's A Man Rides Through

- The battle between Severian and Baldanders in [Gene Wolfe:]'s The Sword of the Lictor.

I enjoyed all of the battle sequences in Ender's Game!

There's one in Kate Elliott's Crown of Stars series that was really good - actually, there were a few - I remember it in particular because it coincides with a historical occurrence that started the whole thing, and because Alain is somehow in that time period, you get both. It was bitter-sweet and sad. I think it was The Gathering Storm.

Can a battle be a one-on-one thing? If so, my vote is for the duel in The Princess Bride (William Goldman).

Ooooh, I love this topic.

1. David Gemmell - "Legend" 2/3 of the book is one long battle! Also the other 2 novels about Druss are equally as good for battles.

2. Robert Jordan - WoT series book 4. The end of the book where the fight happens in Emmonds Field. Good stuff!

3. Margaret Weis and Tracy Hickman - "Chronicles". the end of each of these 3 books have excellent battles!

4. Peter F. Hamilton - "Pandora's Star" when MorningLightMountain invades the Commonwealth

5. Larry Niven - "Footfall"

Anything by David Gemmell is top notch when it comes to battles/combat. Highly recommended if you enjoy high fantasy.

Nice topic.

I have always been partial to R.A. Salvatore's Drizzt series--the training fight that Drizzt has with his mentor in the first book always stuck in my mind as being one of the best one-on-one battle descriptions I've ever read. Globes of Darkness, multiple weapons, a ranging battle. Good times...

Actually, Salvatore is pretty good at writing battles in a lot of his books. Salvatore is like a Michael Bey movie--you're going to enjoy it, it'll be exciting, but it might lack depth.

I also really like the battle between the D.A. and Voldemort's goons at the end of Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix. That was some good old fashioned wand-slinging there. It was high drama and probably the most exciting point in the whole series.

Not sure about best, but I just have to mention worst. The Saga of Recluce books. Good stories, great characters, horrible laughable battle scenes. The guy writes sound effects instead of fight scenes. I couldn't believe it when I read it.

I have to agree with Sean, I always get great visuals in R.A. Salvator's battle scenes (I also loved transformers).

Armor by John Steakly wrote some pretty good battle scenes. He got into the gore of battle pretty well, was kinda like reading Starship Troopers (movie, not the book).

I too like Salvatore's battle sequences, but have found that they've gotten sort of old in his recent books. It now almost feels like he has to put in outrageously elaborate battle sequences because they're expected, rather than because he wants to describe the battle in that much detail.

As his skill in plotting and character development has improved over time, he should have been able to cut back on some of the over-the-top battle scenes, but hasn't quite been willing to go that far.

I have to agree with Ty, the Battle of Dumai's Wells in Lord of Chaos is one of the best written battles I've read. That final command of "Asha'man Kill!" sent shivers down my spine at the brutal efficiency of the Black Tower.

Second in my view is the Battle Sequence in Stone of Tears by Terry Goodkind where Kahlan trains the Galean army recruits in guerrilla tactics. It was quite exhilarating to learn that a force of 5,000 had successfully wiped out a force of 50,000 to the last man.

My honorable mentions:

- Fatal Revanant, by Stephen R. Donaldson, the battle between Linden and Co., Sandgorgons, and Demondim-spawn vs. Esmer vs. The Harrow vs. Rodger, cave-wights, and Kresh. It was one of those battles where you just have to laugh and wonder who else is going to show up to the fight!

- In The Two Swaords (Hunter's Blade Trilogy Bk. 3) by Salvatore, the desperate battles to save Mithral Hall from Obould, with victories and losses on both sides.

- And finally, the D.A. vs the Death Eaters in order of the Phoenix. Like Sean said, some good ol' fashioned wand slinging!

I agree with Sean and Robert that the D.A. vs. the Death Eaters duel is great, but in the scope of the Harry Potter series, I think the final battle at Hogwarts in book 7 (all of it--from arriving in the room of requirement to the end) was fantastic. It was full of visual imagery; I could picture every moment. I also liked how there were waves in the battle, ups and downs. As well as priceless one-liners, like Ms. Weasley's "Get away from my daughter, you b**ch." Plus, you get to see all of the characters you have grown to love in action and the teens are just as important to the battle as the parents--the families are fighting side by side.

I would also like to echo Nick's opinion of the battles in Ender's Game. The final battle in Ender is fantastic. "The enemy's gate is down" has become on of my personal life philosophies.

I think the battle of Pelennor Fields was one of the best battles ever. And I also though the movie did a very good portrayal of it on the big screen.

Travis, Morninglightmountain is a BEAST! Loved it.

Elisabeth Moon's "Deed to Paksanairian" OMG I killed the spelling, was full of vary detailed and fast moving combat sequences.

I have to second the mention of the Battle of Blackwater. Martin has the brutality of melee battles down to an art.

My favorite battle sequencea are actually from Homer and Virgil. I just got done reading the Aenid and both of the works attributed to Homer. Not to be grotesque, but it talks none stop about brains spilling to earth and about people being vicerated. It is absolutely disgusting, but at the same time kind of appealing in the primal sense.

You might like Illium by Dan Simmons if you enjoyed reading Homer.

Yes, Illium was an excellent book/series. I like historical fiction/alternative history and that was both with science fiction thrown in for good measure.

Best Fantasy battle: The Battle of the Pelennor Fields, particularly the aborted confrontation between Gandalf and the Witch King, and Aragorn and Eomer meeting "though all the hosts of Mordor stood between" at the docks. Two scenes unfortunately and inexplicably left out of the movie.

Best SF battle: The battle sequences in CJ Cherryh's Downbelow Station.

Minor spoiler for "Storms of Swords" by GRRM

Others have already said it but "Legend" by David Gemmel packs a punch like few other books can. Actually all of David Gemmel's books have well done battle scenes. In my opinion the best books written by David Gemmel are his most recent ones about Troy; a great re-telling of the Aeniad.

For sheer pure "epicness" the battles in "Memories of Ice" by Steven Erikson are something else. I virtually remember nothing about the book except the fact that I expected blood to pour out of the pages. Also in this book Erikson (I think he has so much talent but manages to waste quite alot of it) managed to evoke an emotional response from me; which he has only managed to do twice in the six books I have read. The Chain of Dogs storyline in "Deadhouse Gates" is also rather good.









The duel between between Gregor Clegane and the Red Viper was utterly brilliant in "A Storm of Swords" by GRRM; went through all the emotions.

R. Scott Bakker in his battle sequences in the Prince of Nothing Trilogy reaches a level of lyricism that none are able to match in my opinion. His battles are like watching the surging of a stormy sea, powerful, evocative, the careful balance of magic and men, the twists and turns, he blow me away every time. The Battle of Kiyuth is awesome, the Plains of Mengecca (cannot remember exact spelling) is better and the final battle at the Shimeh; woah.

Cicero,

While I'll stick by my first choice for a Fantasy battle, I'll second your nomination of the Chain of Dogs running battle in Erikson.

Roberts top two were also a couple of my top two.

"I have to agree with Ty, the Battle of Dumai's Wells in Lord of Chaos is one of the best written battles I've read. That final command of "Asha'man Kill!" sent shivers down my spine at the brutal efficiency of the Black Tower.

Second in my view is the Battle Sequence in Stone of Tears by Terry Goodkind where Kahlan trains the Galean army recruits in guerrilla tactics. It was quite exhilarating to learn that a force of 5,000 had successfully wiped out a force of 50,000 to the last man."

I would add to that a couple of the scifi battles by David Weber. "We Few" and the final battle there, or "Shadow of Saganami" where the final battle is actually to a stalemate and the victors are more like survivors.

I also agree on the Lord of Chaos battle. That's the first one that popped into my mind even though it's been nearly 15 years since I read it.

Glen Cook masterfully describes several fantasy battles in his Black Company series. The climax of the first book involves an army of over 300,000 attacking The Lady's fortress through the pie-slice approach that she has left open to them (to trap them, of course). Great description in later books of surprises in the form of ambushes or misdirection on the battlefield. Noteworthy among them are Croaker's victories crossing the Ghoja Ford, taking Dejagore, and finally smashing the enemy army at the Plain of Charandaprash. I agree Tolkien is good, but even his huge mythical battles pale in comparison to Cook's description. I've never read anything that comes close to Cook in that regard.

As far as sci-fi nothing stands out so much to me. In fact most of the sci-fi I've read tends to describe fistfights, small-scale shootouts, or essentially dogfighting (even if they do involve starships more than a kilometer long) rather than large traditional battles. One book that did, though, is The Legend That Was Earth by James P. Hogan. In that book guerrilla fighting in Latin America spills over to cause a civil war (East vs West) in the U.S. Then China decides to intervene and pretty quickly the aliens in the book start getting involved, some aliens supporting the eastern government, others the western rebels. Good description of lots of futuristic war machines in this story.

Glad to see someone mention Glenn Cook. His work is outstanding and often ignored.

Surprised no one mentioned it already, but The First Law series by Joe Abercrombie has some of the best fight scenes I've read.

ASoIaF: The Battle of Blackwater was great. I can't remember who he fought, but Bronn's championing Tyrion was another favorite. I guess it's not much of a scene, but Tyrion killing his pops was great.

WoT: It pains me to say it because this series bored me into not reading it, but the battle at the end of Lord of Chaos was great. Oddly enough it was the last of the series I read.

- seconding the Iliad mentioned by Gilbert upthread (I haven’t read The Aeneid, but I plan to read it this year).

- From LotR: the Pelennor Fields

- From The Silmarillion: the Nirnaeth Arnoediad (Tears Unnumbered). The first time I read it, I put the book aside for days after that -- I was too stunned to continue reading for a while.

Steven Erikson's Malazan series has several epic battle scenes
Joe Abercrombie as mentioned aove
Django Wexler has some good ones

Angie wrote: "I think the battle of Pelennor Fields was one of the best battles ever. And I also though the movie did a very good portrayal of it on the big screen. "

I was almost in despair that no one was going to mention this. I thought that the whole Battle was awesome, but the Charge of the Rohirrim was the caper for me.

Terence wrote: "Best Fantasy battle: The Battle of the Pelennor Fields, particularly the aborted confrontation between Gandalf and the Witch King, and Aragorn and Eomer meeting "though all the hosts of Mordor stoo..."

I will say that the battle scenes in LotR were good, of course considering they focused on them they had better be. However, the siege of Minas Tirith made my blood boil. What does Peter Jackson think they built castles out of? Legos? A rock hitting a stone castle usually bounces off, not cause catastrophic destruction. The way they showed that castle coming apart they wouldn't have had to breach the gates. (boot to the head)

Beth wrote: "- seconding the Iliad mentioned by Gilbert upthread (I haven’t read The Aeneid, but I plan to read it this year).

- From LotR: the Pelennor Fields

- From The Silmarillion: the Nirnaet..."

The Silmarillion has a number of epic battle scenes. Fingolfin (what a name to try and say out loud with a straight face) challenging Melkor to single battle. The Fall of Gondolin, hard book to read though.

For Space Battles, David Weber in the Honor Harrington books can pen some amazing sequences. The Early books are better for that than the later ones because he seems to get a real need to over explain the math of the battle in the later books which I find detracts from the overall experience.

"Forlorn Hope" by David Drake is a running sequence of battles as a band of mercenary soldiers fight to get off a planet after being on the losing end of a civil war and being betrayed by their clients.

Great battle scenes as well as individual acts of heroism and duty, but without over glamourisation of war.

Steven Erikson's Malazan series is full of amazing battles. The Chain of Dogs in Deadhouse Gates, the siege of Capustan in Memories of Ice, anything with Karsa Orlong, and Trull Sengar's two week running battle with the Jhek in Midnight Tides are all truly epic. Those are just in the first 5 books, and there are tons more in the last 5 books.

I really liked the Final Battle in Wheel of Time. It was just so cool to see how everything came together after such a long series.

The Deeds of Paksinarian by Elizabeth Moon were full of battles.

The Temeraire series by Naomi Novik has a lot of historical battles in the Napoleonic Wars with dragons added. So pretty much the same basic results as the real battles, but with the added elements of dragons with various abilities and their riders.

The Battle of Dumai's Wells 'The Lord of Chaos' by Robert Jordan. The best battle scene in the whole series..

For those who never finished the WoT certainly missed out on a lot. Brandon Sanderson finished writing the last 3 books in the Wheel of Time and did a great job. He put everything together and all the questions were answered as well.

1. the stormlight achive : I enjoyed every battle that includes Caladan or Dalinar
2. Hyperion Cantos : every battle that includes the Shreicks

I was elbow-deep in Jim Butcher's Furies of Calderon when I realized that the last third of the book is one big battle scene. He made it work.

In addition to the ones already mentioned above, almost any battle scenes in David Gemmel's fantasy books. For SF most battle scenes, David Weber books come to mind.

There was one space battle that I think was in a Jack Chalker novel which utilized wormholes for spacecraft, so not only was the battle fluid and three-dimensional, there was also a time element involved, as well. To outside observers it appeared to be over in minutes, but to the participants it took hours. Basically short-range teleporting through time and space.

I wish I could remember the details, because I recall thinking how crazy yet logical the whole thing was.