Goodreads Ireland discussion

This is the discussion thread for those members who wish the discuss Willy Vlautin's The Free without fear of posting spoilers.

I look forward to a more in-depth discussion with you all. :)

I am interested in your take, Declan. I noticed you only gave it 4 stars.

I gave it a 4* rating becuase it was very good, Susan, but I didn't quite think it deserved to sit along with my 5* favourites.

I thought the characters were well portrayed and I cared about them enough to invest myself in the story, but not in a way that would set them apart from most other novels I read.

I really liked Leroy's dream/nightmare. I read like a strong dystopian SF novel, and had there been more of that I might have given it 5 stars.

It's a coma dream. It's not really SF as, at times, it isn't very realistic, which actually works in its favour. I think it will appeal to SF readers, though.

Just finished "The Free" and was an interesting, moving read. I haven't read many books based around working class Americans so I enjoyed it from that perspective and Vlautin's characters were so real that I could empathise with their struggles. Funnily enough Declan, Leroy's dreams were the only part of the book that started to irritate me. To start with I found the whole idea of the bruise/mark and "The Free" intriguing but as I got to know the other characters better, I got bored with Leroy's dreams and wanted to get back to Pauline, Freddie & Darla. I will definitely read another of his novels and recommend this one to a few at our local bookclub next week.

I really enjoyed this book. I don't think this book was meant to be completely character driven. Whilst I liked the characters I think vlautin was trying to give a social commentary regarding issues like homelessness, health insurance and financial struggles moreso than character development.
What I liked about this book most was that that the ending was far more realistic than alot of novels. They didn't all walk off into the sunset holding hands. Whilst Freddie got his children back, it was through the faults of the mother that he got them. Not because of his persistent fighting for them. And while he had them, he still had to deal with his massive insurance bills and would no doubt continue to struggle.
Whilst Pauline got her dream job, she would forever have to deal with her neurotic dad who probably has left her with so many emotional scars that she can't have a normal relationship. I really enjoyed paulines character. She was such a typical nurse and her storyline really showed how as much as you try as a nurse you can't help those who don't want to be helped.
All in all I can't say enough good things about this book.

@Seraphina, yes, I enjoyed the book too because the issues were real and the characters were believable. Another example to add to yours is that it seems likely that Jo/Carol probably never returned home or got another opportunity to turn her life around, sad but the reality for many young people who run away from home with no contacts or skills.

@Tara. I think if Leroy's dreams weren't in the novel It would have been a 3* book. I liked the character development and it was easy to empathise with them, but all-in-all it would have been more of the same stuff about working-class America we're usually served by TV, movies and other books. This gave it something different and probably saved me from boredom.

The only thing that didn't quite work for me about the ending. It was happier than I expected and a bit sudden. I was confused by the sudden jump forward in time.

I actually disagree with Declan's comment here.

I actually don't think we get enough of the blue collar working-class America perspective in recent literature...much of which seems centered on the experiences of those who live on both coasts and have money. I think we get a bit more of it in some T.V. comedies, but a lot of those actually seem to making fun of working class.

I did think of a question for Vlautin, "Are you a fan of science fiction? If so, what books have influenced you the most?" I'll add it to the Vlautin Q&A section too, so it's not lost.

The characters, the writing style, and the topics reminded me a lot of John Steinbeck. Freddie reminded me of a modern-day Tom Joad. I was taken in by all of the characters, but especially Pauline. She was the most complicated and the most interesting of the lot, I think. The book--in tone and characters--also reminded me a bit of Jess Water's We Live in Water, so I think anyone who really enjoyed this book would likely enjoy that one, as well.

I said I thought it would have been like the typical blue-collar stuff we're usually served had it not been for the dream sequences, Sara. On the whole I don't think there's an an awful lot of blue-collar stuff on US TV (At least not that we'd see over here), especially when compared with UK telly. I've always wondered why US soap operas dealt with naughty rich people whil UK soaps dealt with the down-trodden working class.

I'm found the ending more open-ended than happy. Pauline might have her dream job, but she's still lumbered with looking after her father, and Freddie got his kids but he's completely broke. It did end terribly suddenly, though, and had it had a better climax I probably would have given it 4*. I might be a little had on Vlautin, here. I want a more satisfying ending but I've no idea what might do it.

I thought the ending was perfect for the book, open as it was. As the book is intended to deal with ongoing issues in the US, having a definite end with everything tied up nicely would be a little false. I think Vlautin wants us to imagine Pauline and Freddie going about their ordinary lives still facing their problems in an uplifting way after the book's conclusion.

I can't really disagree but it didn't feel climactic in any way. It just stopped. It needed something more.

Cathleen wrote: "The characters, the writing style, and the topics reminded me a lot of John Steinbeck. Freddie reminded me of a modern-day Tom Joad. I was taken in by all of the characters, but especially Paulin..."

Cathleen - I've added the Jess Walters book to my to-read list. And again, this group keeps prodding me to read Steinbeck which I truly intend to do this summer!

Allan wrote: "I thought the ending was perfect for the book, open as it was. As the book is intended to deal with ongoing issues in the US, having a definite end with everything tied up nicely would be a little ..."

I was satisfied with the ending as I think anything "neater" would have seemed forced.

Declan - BTW, I recalled the title of a book I recently read that really annoyed me in it's portrayal of working class and racist white guys in Maryland. You mentioned a book you were reading or had read that portrayed working class people in a stereotypical way. This book, self-published, and one we were pushed and pushed for months to read in one of my book groups by the author's wife (they both are members) had a group of white men who were opposed to the number of black middle class people buying large new houses in the area. They were not only racist but neo-Nazis and Ku Klux Klan. The problems with this kind of portrayal is that there are many people who are very racist in their views, but they don't have to be Nazis or KKK to act on it. It is actually more likely that those who perpetrate vile racist acts, aren't this kind of extremist, which makes racial violence even more pervasive. Having said that, the man who attacked the Jewish Community Center in Kansas and killed 3 people was connected to the KKK. Anyway I was really annoyed that the author had to stoop to such stereotypes and simplistic views of working class rural white men. A much more subtle portrait can be seen in the film Crash, which I am reminding myself to view again. The racist cop played by Matt Dillon is simultaneously the "tender" caretaker for his ill father. People are complicated, and writers who can capture that, are the Steinbecks, Vlautins, etc. of the writing world.

Barbara wrote: "Cathleen wrote: "The characters, the writing style, and the topics reminded me a lot of John Steinbeck. Freddie reminded me of a modern-day Tom Joad. I was taken in by all of the characters, but ..."

Barbara, I think you'll like Jess Walter. There's one short story about a homeless fellow that stayed with me for months. Apropos of Steinbeck, I was on my way to get my hair cut this morning, and I heard an interview with
Chris O'Dowd about playing Lennie in Of Mice and Men on Broadway. I found it interesting that he said that Steinbeck is very popular/well regarded in Ireland. Steinbeck's reputation suffered quite a bit in recent times in the US. I'm not quite sure why, but for some reason he fell out of favor, fashion among literary critics and academics. Anyway, I've posted the link to the interview. http://www.wbur.org/npr/304563765/for...

Cathleen wrote: "Barbara wrote: "Cathleen wrote: "The characters, the writing style, and the topics reminded me a lot of John Steinbeck. Freddie reminded me of a modern-day Tom Joad. I was taken in by all of the ..."

Great interview, thanks!

Didn't Jess Walter write Beautiful Ruins? That was a good book.

Susan wrote: "Didn't Jess Walter write Beautiful Ruins? That was a good book."

Yes, I think he did, Susan. I've only read that book of short stories, but I'd like to read more. He has the same kind of "clean" style--no wasted words--as Vlautin.

I was hesitant to pick up Beautiful Ruins as I thought it was a romance story. It was but on such a different level.

@Barbara. I can see why it bothered you. It all amopunts to lazy writing in the end, and I'd feel very annoyed at his wife at insisting that you all read it.

@Cathleen. Thanks for the link. I'd love to see that production, but I find it hard to imagine O'Dowd in a serious role. He'll always be Rory from the IT Crowd, to me.

I really enjoyed The Free. I was worried at first after reading a few chapters when everything was pretty dismal for all the characters and heading downhill fast. I was afraid things wouldn't pick up and I'd be a wreck by the end of the book. In the end things didn't improve too much but the ending was uplifting enough for it not to be too depressing.

I wasn't expecting the sci-fi dream sequences at all! I thought they were a bit annoying at first. I find some authors throw in a dream sequence and it has no bearing on the plot so I tend to switch off when I read them. By the end though I realised I enjoyed them, even if they were a bit repetitive at the start. I guess they were the only way of progressing Leroy's character seeing he wasn't going to come out of his coma.

Freddie and Pauline were great characters. True, not everything worked out for them, but I think it added realism to the book. I was waiting for something awful to happen to poor Freddie, but thankfully he made it to the end of the book without any major disasters.

The book really flew by for me. I agree with some of the other comments that the ending was a bit abrupt. It felt like the characters all had more to say. I suppose that's a good sign in a way. If you care for a character you want to read more about them.

You might have hit on the reason I wasn't happy with the ending, Mark. Maybe I just wanted more?

I couldn't agree more, Mark. It's a special book when you really want to know what happens next to the characters. I loved that Pauline and Freddie had so much dignity to themselves in spite of what has happened to themselves. In Freddie's position it would be so easy to throw your hands up and just give up. Yet he plugged away with two jobs and didn't sit around feeling sorry for himself. Pauline went out and got a career in spite of her father. She never stopped reaching out to others when it would have so easy not to. How many people would have gone so far with the girl druggie? Truly moving.

Another aspect of the book, that I enjoyed were the interactions with minor characters eg Freddie's boss who listens to the evangelical preacher but hasn't empathy or a shred of kindness in him; the boy in the dream sequence who owns the motorbike that his dead brother left him; the kind lady at the doughnut shop; Pauline's honest "boyfriend" etc. Sure, these interactions shed light on the main characters but also how all those around us have a life with ups and downs. Taking the time to be kind and think of what might be going on in other people's lives can make everything so much more bearable and meaningful - even if you are sinking in debt or looking after a mentally ill father. Finding it hard to explain what I mean but these interactions touched me.

For those who are interested, Willy Vlautin has answered our questions thanks to our much-loved member, Susan. He took a lot of time and care to answer and he's a thoughtful and considerate as you's expect from the person who wrote a novel as heartfelt and The Free.

Tara, you are absolutely right about Freddie's boss. I hadn't thought of that aspect but when you brought it up, it made me chuckle.

Wow. His responses show what a down-to-earth and decent person he is. Thanks Susan, it was great being able to read his thoughts on the book, especially the drafting process, 13 times and then shows a copy to his girlfriend! What a nice guy to take the time.

@Susan - it is funny really how many people like Freddie's boss can totally miss the point of these sermons!!

You are absolutely right. I have met some horrid people who listen to those preachers. They become so judgmental. They're so busy living other people's lives that they don't see how messed up their own lives are.

Declan wrote: "@Barbara. I can see why it bothered you. It all amopunts to lazy writing in the end, and I'd feel very annoyed at his wife at insisting that you all read it.

@Cathleen. Thanks for the link. I'd lo..."

I know. I'm so accustomed to seeing him play comic roles, but I also saw a little clip from the interview and he has completely channelled Lennie. I always get a kick out of seeing an actor play a different-than-expected role, especially when they confound my expectations.

Tara wrote: "Another aspect of the book, that I enjoyed were the interactions with minor characters eg Freddie's boss who listens to the evangelical preacher but hasn't empathy or a shred of kindness in him; th..."

Tara, I think you've touched on a really important dimension of the novel. Those characters really weren't "minor" at all. I was disgusted by the paint shop owner (what a phony!) and really curious about both the doughnut shop lady and Pauline's boyfriend. I wanted to know more about their back stories.

Cathleen, I saw James DeFranco and Chris O'Dowd on The View today. I almost didn't recognize O'Dowd in that beard. He said he has a new show coming up called Moone Boys about his childhood in Ireland. I think he said it would be on Hulu. Just to show you how inept I am, I have never been on Hulu and have no idea how to access it.

I did love listening to O'Dowd talk. There's just something so charming about listening to a charming Irishman. I was in a hotel in Salisbury once and had two guys talking to me- one Irish, one English. The English guy said, "All you Americans just love men with English accents." I said you're wrong. It's the Irish accent that does us in. The Irish guy just laughed his head off.

Susan, I was sure I linked to a police drama before on www.hulu.com. It looks like a great service, but it's not available over here. If you and Cathleen like O'Dowd you'll like this show. It just finished its second season (six episodes per season) and it went down a treat.

Susan wrote: "Cathleen, I saw James DeFranco and Chris O'Dowd on The View today. I almost didn't recognize O'Dowd in that beard. He said he has a new show coming up called Moone Boys about his childhood in Irela..."

Susan, that certainly applies to English women as well - an Irish accent can have us weak at the knees. :)

Declan wrote: "Susan, I was sure I linked to a police drama before on www.hulu.com. It looks like a great service, but it's not available over here. If you and Cathleen like O'Dowd you'll like this show. It just ..."

Thanks, Declan!

Thanks, Declan. That's why we love you.

I'm sure you guys will love the show. :)

Hesitant to rain on anyone's parade as a lot of you really seem to love this but I finished The Free a week or so ago and it just didn't work for me.

I found the writing quite simplistic, and even clunky in places, and I found the characters a bit boring. I expected Leroy's coma dream to get a lot more interesting but it didn't really go anywhere. I could continue nitpicking but the details don't really matter. The fact is, it just didn't really work for me for some reason.

I can't say I found the characters boring John. I thought they were very real. It wasn't your typical happy Hollywood story where he wakes from his coma and rekindled his romance. It was real life, this stuff happens all the time. It was refreshing to read I thought.

Seraphina wrote: "I can't say I found the characters boring John. I thought they were very real. It wasn't your typical happy Hollywood story where he wakes from his coma and rekindled his romance. It was real life,..."

Jesus, you're going in the wrong direction all together if you think I was after a happy ending.

I wasn't too interested in whether he woke up or not. I was interested in the depths that could have been explored in the subconsciousness of a coma-induced fantasy. That didn't really go anywhere terribly interesting I thought.

The characters were mostly everyday people, but I was drawn in by how they coped with their lots.

Not everyone will go out of their way to help runaway junkies or grow marijuana in their basements to keep the bank at bay.

I liked Freddie. I think he was the most interesting.

And I obviously thought a lot more could have been done with Leroy's story.

And while I found Pauline quite admirable, I found her a bit boring and annoying for some reason.

I found her annoying too. I.felt she was making a martyr of herself, the way she kept her distance from the man she met, but I found her interesting for sure. I liked how she helped her father. A lot of people would have held a grudge against that sort of parent but she recognised he had his own problems. It could have been so easy to just walk away and leave him fester.

Declan wrote: "A lot of people would have held a grudge against that sort of parent but she recognised he had his own problems. "

Me and my mum could sure give Pauline a run for her money. Pauline's Dad was a walk in the park :)

Lol!

I have different problems with my grandarents. They have a lot of energy for the age, in spite of mobility problems, but they forget everyone else has a life that doesn't revolve around them. They are incredibly funny in an I'm-too-old-to-give-a-shit kind of way.

@Susan. Four stars is still quite high. I think a needed some sort of climax, for good or for ill. The way story petered out didn't appeal to me.