Support for Indie Authors discussion

Does anybody else write books and have no clue what is going to happen? I have a general idea of what the book will be about, but I don't have an outline or anything like that. Does anyone else just write whatever comes to mind and let the story create itself?

That's how I wrote my two books. The process went well, and my characters dictated the events.

For my third one I decided to have a plan and guess what? I've been on it for over a year, and I only have about 16k done. Sure, health issues messed it up but still. I know what I need to write, I know how it will all resolve, but I think my characters are fighting it. :P

So in the end, it depends on every individual. Some aren't able to write without a plan, while others prefer no planning. You should go with what suits you best. :)

I tend to outline, but stray from it after a while, and ends up Pantsing some of my work. Since my books are all supposed to be stand-alones that work into an overall story, I have to have some outlining, but I've been pants'ing a bit of the current book as I stray farther from what I had outlined.

Work simply outlined tends to be robotic.
Work simply pantsed (is that a word) tends to be chaotic.
Most people fall somewhere between.

I tend to envision scenes and then write them out. They'll change and more details get added, but I spot write the moment I think of it. I then connect the dots.

Usually, the stronger characters in my head will dominate. And sometimes one will surprise. I've had moments where I sat down to write something specific, but another character decided to slit the other's throat and that was that. The dynamic of the book changed drastically, and for the better.

It was so sudden that I didn't have a chance to mourn the character. It worked like crazy, but still it was so out of left field.

Those are when you know you have something great, but aren't attainable if you strictly plot or pants.

Yeah, most of my books and scripts just start off with an idea and then take their own path.
I usually have an idea how the story is going to end but how to get there usually just occurs to me as I go along.

When the characters take over, that's when you know they are real. At that point, I let them write the story, because after all, it is their story!

Like one of the other posters said, I also write a story with the beginning and end (or two possible endings) in my mind and let the characters dictate the middle. I start with an outline and always stray from it. I'm finding with the new novel I'm writing that I need to outline the middle somewhat as the characters are going to be fighting a battle (of sorts) and it needs to stay on track and be interesting. I've never choreographed a dance routine, but I tend to think of it like that.

Moved to the Author Help folder.

I find I have to at least have the beginning of the book, the general idea of the plot (the central conflict), and a rough idea of how it ends before I can write.

Until recently that's how I've written.

I now find I've got several more complex stories that will require a lot more effort in world creation and story structure to be done ahead of time.

That's why I've been learning Scrivener, to help me develop and manage all that work.

I pants my shorts and plot my longer works.

Things are constantly changing when I write. I'll think of something really great to put in later, but then it doesn't fit when I get there. Writing should be fluid and ever changing based on what your characters are doing. That's what creates the best kind of story.

I'm a panster, for the most part. I'll come up with the general plot for a book, might have a specific scene or two I want within, but for the most part I just write the thing and see where it takes me. I love the surprises that occasionally await me when I do that.

I'm a pantser, too. I never could follow a plot outline so I just make it up as I go. Sometimes I'll have the ending in mind and have to figure out how to get there. Most of the time, I'll have a starting point and see where it goes.

Tim wrote: "When the characters take over, that's when you know they are real. At that point, I let them write the story, because after all, it is their story!"

When I start writing I only know what type of book and what genre It should be. Characters came next and from that I just write what they have to say.

Samantha wrote: "Does anybody else write books and have no clue what is going to happen? I have a general idea of what the book will be about, but I don't have an outline or anything like that. Does anyone else jus..."

I know the beginning and end, but the bit in between is a mystery to me until I get going.

I used to pants first plot hunt later but as my novels turned more complex I plot loosely and pants in sections. :3

Samantha wrote: "Does anybody else write books and have no clue what is going to happen? I have a general idea of what the book will be about, but I don't have an outline or anything like that. Does anyone else jus..."

Yes. All the time.

With my books, I know I have to get from point A to point B to point C. How I get there is entirely up to my characters.

I tend to plan the parts that require a good amount of research, especially in historical, then build my characters actions and reactions as they dictate. When I plan too far ahead, my writing is stiff and my dialog sounds like the old chatty-Cathy doll. So...both ways are important for me.

Charles wrote: "I pants my shorts and plot my longer works."

This is how I do mine, too. I have never even thought about it until now, but I jot down a few notes on my short stories, then sit down and write them, sometimes in one sitting, with editing to follow. My novel, on the other hand has been extensively outlined (although I have veered from the outline in several places.)

My novel was very much written without any kind of plan; just an idea, and although I was naïve, it fortunately worked out pretty well.

But my new novel and the screenplays I've written had a start and ending in mind right from the get-go. I find this better, as I can wander all over the place during the writing and still know where I'm heading.

as a newbie would I sound like I am off my meds if I say my characters speak to me and tell me what to write next. I have written only one book so far and since then even though I haven't started on the next one, I already know what the beginning, middle and end would be. I didn't sit down and think about it, the characters sort of just spoke to me. Gosh I really sound like I am off my meds

Segilola wrote: "as a newbie would I sound like I am off my meds if I say my characters speak to me and tell me what to write next."

Nope, not at all. You might get some funny looks from non-writers, though. I know I sure did when I said the same thing.

oh good, we 'crazies' need company eheheheheheh

I think the stories where the characters speak to the author are the most believable. It makes them realistic.

Segilola wrote: "as a newbie would I sound like I am off my meds if I say my characters speak to me and tell me what to write next. I have written only one book so far and since then even though I haven't started o..."
Not at all, happens frequently!

I agree with M. Ray. I'm a pantser, and give a workshop I call anti-plotting, in part about removing author intrusion and letting the characters tell their story.

Nathan wrote: "Work simply outlined tends to be robotic.
Work simply pantsed (is that a word) tends to be chaotic.
Most people fall somewhere between.

I tend to envision scenes and then write them out. They'll c..."
I can appreciate your style. I am the same way. My characters take over and I just have to go with it, even when I have a pre-plan.

Segilola wrote: "as a newbie would I sound like I am off my meds if I say my characters speak to me and tell me what to write next. I have written only one book so far and since then even though I haven't started o..."
Sounds just like me. My family and friends don't understand when I try to explain how my characters actually speak to me and write their own story. I feel like it's the best way to get it told, by letting them do the telling of it and I just fill in the details.

M. Ray Holloway Jr. wrote: "Charles wrote: "I pants my shorts and plot my longer works."

This is how I do mine, too. I have never even thought about it until now, but I jot down a few notes on my short stories, then sit down..."

Oh yeah, outlines will change on you. Sometimes you come up with a better idea, and sometimes things just take a strange turn.

Roxanne wrote: "With my books, I know I have to get from point A to point B to point C. How I get there is entirely up to my characters."

That's a nice way to describe it, Roxanne.

Angelmovingonup wrote: "Nathan wrote: "Work simply outlined tends to be robotic.
Work simply pantsed (is that a word) tends to be chaotic.
Most people fall somewhere between.

I tend to envision scenes and then write them..."

Well, yes and no. If you look at an outline as an ironclad contract, then yes, it can be robotic, but if you use it simply as a loose guide to get you from point A to point B, it can be useful.

Short stories are done almost completely without a plan. I get an idea and start hacking away at the first thing that comes to mind, usually a strong vision of one particular moment in the story. Then I build around that as I work on it.

Novels are more or less done the same way, but a little more elaborate. I don't do what some would call an outline. I start by writing a few scenes, usually the ones I have the strongest ideas for or ones that are turning points in the story. If read this way, the rough draft seems like a series of short, almost unrelated and disconnected stories. As I work on it, I smooth things out with each draft, adding a bit more, connecting ideas. I know that I am done when I run out of stuff to smooth over.

Angelmovingonup wrote: "Segilola wrote: "as a newbie would I sound like I am off my meds if I say my characters speak to me and tell me what to write next. I have written only one book so far and since then even though I ..."

I enjoy the confused looks I get when I say my characters are or aren't talking to me.

Michael wrote: "Angelmovingonup wrote: "Segilola wrote: "as a newbie would I sound like I am off my meds if I say my characters speak to me and tell me what to write next. I have written only one book so far and s..."

Sometimes when I'm writing dialog, I end up staring at the screen then delete it all saying, "Nope. She wouldn't say that." Same thing for actions/reactions.

I wrote my fantasy book as a pantser and learned about my characters as I went along. As for my first book, I plotted each chapter. It changed so much as I went along. I think that's why I decided to approach this one with only the concept, ending, and a couple plot point ideas. I found it allowed my imagination the freedom to go wherever the story wanted.

When I plotted my first book, I found myself wanting to hurry to get to a key point or looking forward to writing the major climax. With the fantasy, I didn't know what was going to happen other than a couple scenes including the final scene.

I just started writing. What came from that is a very expansive story. Now I have a very clear vision of where I want to go.

Samantha wrote: "Does anybody else write books and have no clue what is going to happen? I have a general idea of what the book will be about, but I don't have an outline or anything like that. Does anyone else jus..."

In a word: Yes.

I've already started my 2nd novel, using a very general outline. Unfortunately, the story has become unworkable in its current form and I've suspended the writing pending a complete restructuring of the 2nd half.

But if this were a "normal" situation, I would start with a very general, broad outline. The work really begins when I start writing the actual chapters. I get a lot of spontaneous ideas, what-ifs, and inspirations along the way and add a lot of plot, characters, situations, and chapters as I go.

So I guess you could say that I'm a hybrid.

Rest assured ... I've been called much worse! LOL!

There is no way I could have written my 2nd book without some form of outline.

I just start with a idea and let the story develop, building up character portfolios and scene/locations on the way. It works for me, and is far more enjoyable than trying to restrain your story to the confines of a predetermined outline. Snag is, one book ends up as being four!

I do write books with a plan. Just a brief outline of the book, with the main characters and incidents will be helpful. But I do not stick to the plan all the time. In some cases, I just write ignoring the 'plan'. But when it come to research books, it is easy to stick to the outline.
What is the most important is to, just let your thoughts flow, do not block them by a strict plan.

Segilola wrote: "sorry to digress, I need a quick answer. I just used amazon's content creator to make my first .mobi file. however it is super large.
1) how to I condense the size?
2) amazon isn't letting me list ..."

These are very different questions. You should start a new thread with your questions so that you get the kind of answers/help you need.

Comment deleted for being off topic. If you have a question, please begin a post in the appropriate folder. Thank you.

The outline for my current WIP looks like a diagram for a football play, there's so many Xs, Os, and lines moving things around. lol

Samantha wrote: "Does anybody else write books and have no clue what is going to happen? I have a general idea of what the book will be about, but I don't have an outline or anything like that. Does anyone else jus..."

Hi Samantha,

Such a good question. I usually never write with an outline. My characters have very loud voices and opinions, so I just let them share their stories with me. As the novel progresses, I can see where everything will go, and I just let the protagonist lead me there.

Best,
LMM

I'm working on quite a large series, the storyline for which I have a general outline. For each novella/novel, I tend to throw characters into it and allow them to work themselves into my world.

Dwayne wrote: "Short stories are done almost completely without a plan. I get an idea and start hacking away at the first thing that comes to mind, usually a strong vision of one particular moment in the story. T..."

I'm the same way with short stories. I just sit down and write and let things happen as they will. But with long stories, my brain will not tolerate this "pantsing" business. Seriously, I once tried just writing with only a beginning in mind and not much else, and I ended up hitting a plot wall I was never able to get around.

Dialogue, on the other hand, I just let happen. Most of my outlines focus on scenes, but when it comes to what the characters say I just let them do the talking.

I generally have some idea what I want to achieve, but I don't actually write out an outline. Or if I do write an outline it is when the specifics are critical. For example, as a Sci-Fi writer I tend to write a lot of combat scenes. If I want to make certain I'm hitting the right keys, I will jot down a few ideas. But I generally prefer to allow the characters in my imagination to lead the story, so I don't generally tell it for them ahead of time. I also love to write comedy into my fiction, and I particularly enjoy when a character will say something spontaneously that I wasn't anticipating.

Just write the book! Trying to follow all the Sacred Cows will limit your creative ability and stifle your plot if you place boundaries on your writing.

Personally I sit down take a few notes about the story & plot. Then focus on the ending & exactly how I am going to close out the story so that way I have a reference point to shoot at. What happens in between the Start & the finish is never decided until the words are published. I prefer Organized Confusion especially when fiction is the genre since it opens all the doors & removes any walls that might otherwise box me in.

Forget word count, being Politically Correct or any other thing that causes you to have minimal imagination. Just remember this is your story so tell it exactly the way you feel and do not worry about what someone else thinks. Finish the project, publish it & move on to the next one.

I wrote my first book by the seat of my pants. It turned into 700 pages of what could be a prequel, a sequel, an alternative to the prequel-- and a lot of backstory to a series.
But I got a lot out of that exercise.
My second novel, which I published, I outlined. I knew where I was going. I had a road map. Then my characters took over and quite a bit of the book changed, but without the outline, I would not have been able to get the book back on track. It's gotten some very good reviews, so that, in my mind , is a big + for outlining.
I began my third novel, the sequel to the published one, I began with a loose outline, had to stop , go back and rewrite a more detailed outline. With that in hand, I'm writing new chapters and rewriting old ones. My writer's group has gone from harpooning me like the great white whale, to praising the work, while making suggestions and comments.
So, each to his or her own, but , as Hemingway said, "There's nothing to writing. You just sit down at your typewriter and bleed", so , for less blood on the floor, I say, outline that novel. Don't worry about your creativity--your characters will tell you what they want to do anyway.