Goodreads Reviewers' Group discussion

Way back when (well, up until last year) I always pushed myself to finish every book I started.

So... Do you DNF?
If so, do you review them? Do you let people know what it was that stopped you reading?

If you stick it out, do you find that it affects you in any way? Does it change how your review?

Ooh, boy! Cora, I do finish every godforsaken bad book that I have the misfortune of laying my hands on - And no, I don't review or rate such books (unless they were bestsellers and I just don't see what's so special!)

I think I've only ever given a bad (and low-starred) review to one self-pubbed book because it seemed to me to be misogynist and in bad taste.

I don't anymore.

If I DNF a book, I don't write a review. I don't think it'd be fair because my reason could have become irrelevant or changed by the time the book ended or it might've not been my taste. If I'm specifically asked I'll respond why in a PM but not in a thread.

The last book I should have DNF'ed and didn't was by a popular author. The review was not complimentary at all and I've refused to read anything by that author since.

I haven't abandoned a book yet, no matter how terrible.

I figure that I can sacrifice a few hours of my life if someone took the trouble to write an entire book (I doubt I'd feel that way if I was a slower reader)- I can usually find something constructively nice to say, but a nice review with 1 star seems a little disingenuous so I tend to keep quiet if I didn't like a book.

I'm struggling with this. I put a reviews offer out over on the SIA group forum, and got about 45 books.

Most of them have been very good, but I'm struggling with one mammoth one whose formatting is challenging to the point where I often can't figure out who's supposed to be speaking ... I've said I'll read it, I'm trying, but there's another 450 pages of this to go. :)

I used to struggle through every book once I started it, I don't do that anymore. My time and energy is too precious to me. That being said, If I can't manage at least 3 stars, then I rarely rate it. As a writer, I know that the author has put her or his heart and soul into their writing. Most of the time I can find something to like about a book. LOL!

If a reader needs to "struggle" to read a work, it means --

1. the theme does not resonate with the reader (is not of their taste or preference)

and/or

2. the work is not "finished."

It is a disservice to review an author's work by struggling through it. Within a few pages, a reviewer should be able to say whether or not the work is "finished" or not.

If the work is "unfinished," the author can be told that in a considerate way and that is useful feedback as they then know they need to do more work. That is, the work isn't "bad" so much as "not ready for prime time" and more time and work need be invested in it so that it can become the wonderful product it was intended to be.

Richard wrote: "If a reader needs to "struggle" to read a work, it means --

1. the theme does not resonate with the reader (is not of their taste or preference)

and/or

2. the work is not "finished."

It is a di..."

Sometimes it's merely a mismatch between book and reader; I can't read Ulysses or Finnegan's Wake.

My debut novel's one negative review so far was someone complaining 1) it was too long - too much internal monologue, and 2) about things like the epigraphs at the beginning of chapters not being clear until the chapter was almost over.

Those were design features, and all my other readers love them.

The reader should have given up far sooner, and decided my style was not for her. But since someone had recommended it, she finished the whole 480+ pages, and then gave it a negative review.

Mind you, I'm not complaining - it serves as a warning to others, and she was very nice about not liking it.

Since my first comment on the 19th, I've now gone through 2 books I barely finished (to tell the truth, I skimmed the last half of one then decided not to review because I really didn't enjoy it at all).

What's the point at which you should just give up?

There are only a few books I've given up on and in those cases usually about a third of the book will either confirm or assuage your fears. The only exception to this is The Silmarillion - I think that's how you spell it - where five pages was enough to tell me I wasn't wanted. BTW loved the Hobbit and LOTR.

Nia wrote: "Since my first comment on the 19th, I've now gone through 2 books I barely finished (to tell the truth, I skimmed the last half of one then decided not to review because I really didn't enjoy it at..."

I'm terrible. I usually give up by a few pages in. My reading time is very limited, and I want it all to be a stellar experience.

I know this is going badly by a few chapters in, if it had a good start; at that point, I skim the last three chapters to find out what happened (I feel I earned this, by reading the setup). It is actually giving the book one more chance (since I picked it for some reason), but has only resulted in me reading more in the middle once.

Mike wrote: "There are only a few books I've given up on and in those cases usually about a third of the book will either confirm or assuage your fears. The only exception to this is The Silmarillion - I think ..."

The Silmarillion is a dictionary/glossary, designed for Tolkien's private use, which his son (I believe) compiled and published after he died for those fans who wanted to know more of what the background Tolkien had constructed for his world was like.

Some of the pieces of that ended up in the movies - and enhanced it, IMHO. But it was a tough call, because Tolkien was a romantic in the old sense, not the Romance sense: epic tales about men with a few supporting women in the background. Jackson decided the movies needed leavening.

Nia wrote: "Since my first comment on the 19th, I've now gone through 2 books I barely finished (to tell the truth, I skimmed the last half of one then decided not to review because I really didn't enjoy it at..."

Honestly, if I'm reading 'just for me', so to speak, a few pages are usually quite enough to tell me if I'm going to like a book or not - TBH my favourite way to find new authors in a bookstore is to pick something up and read a few pages. If I don't want to put it down after that I buy it :)

My problem when I'm reading a book for review is that I was daft enough to state that I'll read cover to cover and provide either feedback or a review ... next time I'm going to add a DNF caveat!

J.C. wrote: "next time I'm going to add a DNF caveat! "

Genius! I think that's what I'm going to have to do - it's review copies that I read all the way through even if I can't stand them

Alicia wrote: "It is actually giving the book one more chance (since I picked it for some reason), but has only resulted in me reading more in the middle once. ."

I like that idea! The last book I read was nothing like the description implied it would be, I felt a bit cheated but read it to the end anyways.... it was in no way worth it. I just feel like I'm not holding up my end of the bargain as a reviewer by not finishing a review copy

Way back when I was a college student, and for some time thereafter, I forced myself to finish every book I started. I no longer do that. I don't start reading a book unless I've read a few pages of it to see if I like the writing, if it's been edited, yadda, yadda, so if I find myself wanting to give up on a book once I do start really reading it, I usually speed read past the "bump" and give it another chance. After that, I either become re-interested or toss it in the direction of the wastebasket.
I like the idea of adding a DNF caveat. For me, that's understood, unless I have agreed to read it cover to cover, but I think it's only fair to state it up front. I also would include a private message to the author in that case, or in the case where I have reservations about the book that I feel are best expressed privately.

I do finish every book. Maybe not right away, but I do finish it. Somehow I still believe, that if I decided to read it, then there was something that interested me and that I should finish is. Because someone wrote it, put their time and effort into the book, so in a way I would feel bad if I would just let it go.
Like I wrote in one of my last updates while reading a book, that books in a way are like people, everyone deserves a chance.

Nia wrote: "I like that idea! The last book I read was nothing like the description implied it would be, I felt a bit cheated but read it to the end anyways.... it was in no way worth it. "

I figure if something interested me enough to start it, I've made an investment - finding out how it ended, even after I am pretty sure I don't like it, is my return on investment. My time is hard to get. I want something for it.

I don't review books that I don't finish. I used to finish every book I started, but I just don't have the time to do that anymore. If I really dislike something I'm reading I won't finish it.

These days I usually give a book about 50 pages to grab my interest and pull me into the story. Otherwise I let it go and move onto something else. Sort of the literary equivalent of ADD I guess, lol

I often get sent review copies too, I've never given any undertaking to read it all the way through. I've only abandoned two books since starting to record reading progress with goodreads (I made a new exclusive shelf for them). That said there are a number of books that are 'paused' on my currently reading shelf. Some of these are books that I will pick up again soon and finish, others I'm still in denial about having abandoned them.

Although I make an effort to review every book that I read I make exceptions for books I didn't like or very popular books that already have loads of reviews. I have written only a handful of reviews at under three stars (2 one star and 2 two star, out of over 150). The one stars were the first volume of Game of Thrones (too misogynist) and a university textbook (it didn't explain things).

Grace wrote: "These days I usually give a book about 50 pages to grab my interest and pull me into the story. Otherwise I let it go and move onto something else. Sort of the literary equivalent of ADD I guess, lol"

Fifty pages is VERY generous of you. I can tell with a few typos or awkward pov changes whether I can continue to read (it drove me crazy, but I read a very good book about someone's year in Central America at a wildlife refuge - he had reversed EVERY it's and its - so I can tolerate a few typos if the writing is otherwise entertaining).

My reading time is hard to get - I'm writing, and I'm slowing down as I get older - so I want to spend it on things that make me happy as a reader. More like 2-5 pages for a DNF decision.

James wrote: "I often get sent review copies too, I've never given any undertaking to read it all the way through. I've only abandoned two books since starting to record reading progress with goodreads (I made a..."

I checked out the books you've read (the 'compare books' feature on GR); sadly, we don't have many in common, and on those we disagree, but I really like some of your reviews - and knowing how many you've written made me go look at your blog. Nice.

Finally discovered a book I could DNF with no qualms- 40% in and it became outrageously racist. I couldn't bring myself to finish it, so I wrote a pretty damning review - tough decision but I sided with using reviewer's integrity rather than keeping shhh

Finally discovered a book I could DNF with no qualms- 40% in and it became outrageously racist. I couldn't bring myself to finish it, so I wrote a pretty damning review - tough decision but I sided with using reviewer's integrity rather than keeping shhh

Glad you liked it Alicia. Nice to get some appreciation from time to time. Thanks.

James wrote: "Glad you liked it Alicia. Nice to get some appreciation from time to time. Thanks."

I LOVE intelligent blogs. I need to fill a reading hole every day with writing/blogging stuff. Or I go to bed hungry.

Slightly off topic (maybe?), but I received a freebie version of Locke & Key from Audible. I gave up less than an hour in, not because of the quality (which was high caliber and downright excellent), but the whole thing played like a television drama.

I'd gone into the story completely blind, and so I had no clue as to what was going on. Seriously, it was as though I were listening to something with my back to the television.

Anyhow, the book is still sitting on my shelf as 'currently reading', and I don't want to post a DNF because I think the fault was in my approach and not the work itself. So, is there a way to remove from 'currently reading' without being asked to Rate & Review?

David wrote: "is there a way to remove from 'currently reading' without being asked to Rate & Review?"

You don't need to rate and review things. Just re-shelve it onto either your 'read' or 'want to read' shelves. You can simply skip the rating bit if goodreads prompts it.

I DNF after a hundred pages. I just read two brilliant fantasies that didn't get into gear until right about that point. This doesn't count toward the freebies I discard one chapter in for neglect of the basics like proofreading. (Don't the authors know even one literate person?)

I usually review for netgalley. I have been very careful and only had a couple three star books that sounded wonderful and just pooped out halfway through. I don't know how I'll handle a DNF, I really don't want to post a one star review unless the book is egregiously offensive. But I don't see that happening.

(Although . . . there was a free book I checked out recently at Amazon that had a firing squad for the bad reviewers.)

Wow. I too have not finished books, and I know that the author has labored over those. One I recently skimmed through was called Spill, Simmer,Falter,Wither by an award-winning writer. The writing was lovely, the premise was good (a main with emotional problems and a dog) but I began skimming it about half way through. I was looking for the story.
So I have to ask myself, if I give a book to a friend and he or she doesn't respond, does it mean that my book is on someone's shelf with the bookmark at the third place and it will never be finished. I admire reviewers who are willing to soldier on, to work through those first fifty pages to find something that will catch them. So, thanks to all you reviewers.
Peggy

DJ Zippergirl wrote: "I DNF after a hundred pages. I just read two brilliant fantasies that didn't get into gear until right about that point. This doesn't count toward the freebies I discard one chapter in for neglect ..."

You are amazingly patient and generous if you give a book 100 pages before you decide not to continue reading.

Modern books don't get the chance the classics got (and needed, to tell the story) to slowly set up the environment for their readers (and modern readers are used to the jump cut and the quick start).

Readers now need something before the end of the first page, preferably sooner. Because the writer is doing more than starting a story with those early pages; he or she is signaling how a reader will be treated.

I have always believed in completing what I undertake. I do finish the books I read even if I am finding it difficult. In most cases I will also review. There was one, which I completed, but considered it did not fulfill its objective. In this instance I wrote a detailed account of what I felt was wrong and, making clear I was only trying to help, sent it to the author. I did not publish a review. Thankfully, the author had the wisdom and grace to accept my comments in the spirit intended.

If I DNF, I do not review or comment.

About the "modern reader": I've heard the argument that the classics would be flops if published in today's market. If so, that says more about us as readers than about the authors of the classics as writers. I think, however, that we may be painting with an awfully broad brush.

Let me see if I have this right. So the "modern reader" needs constant adrenaline shots to keep him engaged. If he doesn't get them he gives up and begins skimming or puts the book away. This is because he must have instant and constant gratification to pay him for his attention.

Really? Has the whole age been afflicted with ADHD? Are we so overstimulated that we've lost the ability to savor the slow building up of a good story line?
Are we so . . . Oh. I see I've lost you.

I do my best to finish books I start but if it starts to be something I dread reading I usually ask the author or publicist if they still want a review. Usually they say if I don't want to finish that is fine.

Sometimes I wish we were beta readers, because the problems with some books could be resolved with a major edit. By the time we get them, it's too late except for fixing typos in an e-book.

I read two books recently that needed a shave. They were both about a hundred pages too long, and all that at the beginning. One needed a jumpstart. The other seemed a little schizo--the entire first hundred pages had a story that was irrelevant to the meat of the story and made me want to put it away.

Without a need to review I would have DNFed them both.

A.R. wrote: "If I DNF, I do not review or comment.

About the "modern reader": I've heard the argument that the classics would be flops if published in today's market. If so, that says more about us as readers..."

Regrettably, the scenario you outline appears to be on the increase. However, not entirely thankfully. Technology (internet etc.) does have a lot to answer for with regard to expectations but I think we also need to look at today's education systems. Personally I think the loss of the three 'Rs', which among other matters helped us learn how to use, and enjoy, our imaginations, are sorely missed.

DJ Zippergirl wrote: "Sometimes I wish we were beta readers, because the problems with some books could be resolved with a major edit. By the time we get them, it's too late except for fixing typos in an e-book.

I read..."

Curious, DJ. Why do you 'need to review'?

When I get an advance copy from Net Galley I try to read the books I've requested.

When I read for myself I try to give a hundred pages before I DNF.

DJ Zippergirl wrote: "When I get an advance copy from Net Galley I try to read the books I've requested.

When I read for myself I try to give a hundred pages before I DNF."

On Net Galley, do you stick to certain genres? How do you pick a book?

Putting Pride's Children on NG is a possibility; I'm wondering how you like NG.

Ohhhhh Alicia, it's really great. Reviewers are free to choose what they like and are encouraged to keep an 80% read/review ratio.

Check out the NG groups here, there is a lot of sharing and recommendations going on among the avid NG fans. You get more than just reviews, you reach a lot of bloggers, too, and benefit from word of mouth.

DJ Zippergirl wrote: "Reviewers are free to choose what they like..."

It's a great way for readers to get new books from their favorite authors, not necessarily a good way for new authors to get discovered - the competition is fierce.

I did some checking, to add to what I've done before. It isn't highly popular with indies, especially those with few books, because of the very high cost. If you're making a few bucks per book, paying for $399 for a listing is very steep.

The indies I've read who tried it had mixed results - many said they got few takers, and that the ones who read often didn't post reviews.

I have one upcoming promotion in an Ivy League alumni magazine's summer reading issue; that's my biggie - I hope their readership is as advertised.

Other than that, my time is going to be spent on Book 2, and slowly contacting individual reviewers if their online comments imply a good match. I've made a lot of nice friends that way.

I have a standing offer of an electronic Review Copy for anyone who would consider writing a review (no actual obligation), and have picked up a few that way.

Alicia, I've heard from some authors that NetGalley reviewers can be harsh critics. Considering the price tag you definitely want to be careful.

I have only taken on three books to review. Of those three, I finished one completely and gave the author a glowing review. The subject was something that interests me, it was thought out, concise and well written so, for me, it was an easy and enjoyable experience.
The other two were books that friends gave me. I was dubious when I accepted the books because the genre is not one that I normally read for pleasure and I made sure I mentioned this when they handed me their book. I didn't make it through either of them. Fortunately my friends were not upset when I gently reminded them that their genre was just not something that I enjoy reading.