The Pickwick Club discussion

Mary Lou wrote: "My only contribution is to wonder how Blackpool, Rachael, and the woman we assume is Mrs. Blackpool will intersect with Sissy, Gradgrind, et al. As someone said earlier, as Dickens fans we know him well enough to be sure that their stories will all come together somehow, and I can't wait to see how he brings it about. ."

Let us hope that the assumed Mrs. Blackpool isn't Sissy's natural mother.

Everyman wrote: "Let us hope that the assumed Mrs. Blackpool isn't Sissy's natural mother."

I seriously hope not!

Mary Lou wrote: "Wow -- those photos are making me rethink my Anglophilia, which normally consists of delightful images of cottages in the Cotswalds or the country houses like those we see on Downton Abbey. Not qui..."

Yes, unfortunately, there's always a grim side to every place. I saw it when I lived in the USA and when I came here to Australia. You don't know about it, or see it, unless you go there yourself. "First world" countries are very good at hiding their poverty stricken populations from the international media.

Here's a video about Saltaire, a model industrial town that is now a World Heritage site. This is not far from my own village. The man who built the village, Titus Salt, was one of a few who actually looked after his employees. Thought you might be interested. It's got some old photos of terraced houses in it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Us2-...

And here's another interesting video, although a bit longer. It gives a very interesting social history too and I can see elements of what he is saying in the novel, especially when it comes to those from the lower classes being able to make their fortunes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CdQl_...

Kate

Oh my. What powerful and distressing pictures.

Everyman wrote: "Kim wrote: "Did I get it all? "

By no means. You left out that he was barefoot, that although it was snowing his coat had been sold to buy coal so he had nothing but his shirt to ward off the snow..."

Kim,

Everyman got every single detail right in his account above - except the one that they would call me Oliver in my youth.

Kate wrote: "Tristram wrote: "The good of the many outweighs the good of the few"

But perhaps in this case, it should be "the bad of the many outweighs the good of the few"?"

According to Sissy Jupe it surely is like that. But then I am asking myself if there can ever be a social system that will not have some people marginalized - and yet avoid state dictatorship.

Kate,

thank you for posting these photos, which really leave me speechless ...

Oh Kate, these photos are so incredibly sad. :-(

I wrote a lengthy comment under the Saltaire video, even though it is narrated by one of my countrymen :D. My guess is that he hails from either one of Counties Derry or Antrim in Norn Iron (N.Ireland); you really needed to know that!:p. What an amazing man Salt was. Incredible, solid housing. (Oh, I meant to say that my comment disappeared!!)

Kate wrote: "Here is a link to what the inside and outside of terrace houses from the Industrial era looked like, albeit from disturbing pictures of the 1970s. However, I can only imagine they looked similar or..."

Powerful and disturbing pictures Kate. Somehow, the pictures being Black and white made them even more stark.

Kate wrote: "Also, I should add, that I think Dickens is getting a big carried away with mixing characteristics of London with the newer northern cities. I've posted a link in my next post. If you have a look, you'll see that they don't have the Dickensian London 'feel' about them. "

Interesting thought, Kate. Come to think of it, I don't remember seeing many narrow streets like Dickens describes for Stephen's & Rachael's homes (at least, as I'm imagining them), in Hull, my mother's hometown. I wonder though if this might be because of WWII bombing -- the severest damage of any British city/town -- half the city centre destroyed, and 95% of houses damaged (according to Wiki). I recall large surface parking lots in town, sites that hadn't been redeveloped. It must have looked different before, especially near the docks, industrial areas, etc. I believe other northern industrial cities were also hit hard. I suppose the benefit of a fictional town is that Dickens could mix elements from several different places. I've never been to Preston, however.

I stayed in some row homes, but fortunately not the back-to-back type. Most had at least a strip of garden. Thanks for sharing these truly appalling pictures -- and the more positive video of Saltaire.

Kate wrote: "Everyman wrote: "Let us hope that the assumed Mrs. Blackpool isn't Sissy's natural mother."

Now that would be a plot twist!

Vanessa wrote: "Kate wrote: "Everyman wrote: "Let us hope that the assumed Mrs. Blackpool isn't Sissy's natural mother."

Now that would be a plot twist!"

I'm still trying to figure this out ... ;-)

Glad you all liked the photos and video. It's true, outsiders never envisage such terrible conditions in the UK. Most, no doubt, created by the industrial revolution. Here's to Salts for making a difference.