Obsessed with True Crime discussion

So many crimes that need books written about them from my home state:

The Shooting Gallery Years in downtown Detroit would make a grim read. Every week some kid managed to catch a stray bullet because some other kid was firing randomly, apparently thinking "if I don't aim at anyone, I won't hit anyone."

The murder of Ben Gravel. The anniversary is coming up next week.

I would love a whole separate book on Joyce Bennett's murder. She deserves more than to be just one of the list of names in Evil Eyes.

The string of kindergarteners killed downtown, by parties unknown, in the 1970s.

What about a whole book on Shelly Brooks?

And Donald Murphy?

A co-worker at the reform school told me they once had a kid there who killed his parents. He was from Grosse Pointe, for pete's sake -- how did they keep THAT out of the paper?

Now you just need to find authors for those books & charge a 'finder's fee' for pointing them towards interesting stories...

I wish I could just take a leave of absence and write them myself...

Fishface, I think you would be great at putting pen to paper about all the crimes in Michigan. You probably know them backwards and forwards.

Rita wrote: "Fishface, I think you would be great at putting pen to paper about all the crimes in Michigan. You probably know them backwards and forwards."

I wish I did!

Well, it wouldn't take you long upon reviewing them!!!

Fishface wrote: "I wish I could just take a leave of absence and write them myself..."

Great idea! When do you start?

Do you need a proof reader Fish Face?

I'm sure we can find you some great cover art!

Beth wrote: "Do you need a proof reader Fish Face?"

The last thing I need is a proofreader -- I used to be one myself and I am an unabashed grammar, spelling and punctuation Nazi. What I need is the time and money to stop working at my job for a while and write books. Like that's ever gonna happen...

*Whispers*

Doooo iiiiitttt...dooooo iiiittttt....

K.A. wrote: "*Whispers*

Doooo iiiiitttt...dooooo iiiittttt...."

*hisses*

Paaaay me...paaay meee to doooo it...

*even quieter*
slow clap

Fishface................. JUST DO IT!

This: http://www.iol.co.za/news/africa/erec...

And this: https://mylifeofcrime.wordpress.com/2...

The poetic justice is irresistable.

Fishface wrote: "This: http://www.iol.co.za/news/africa/erec..."

If that doesn't make it go away, nothing will.

And this groundbreaking innovation in motivation for mutilation:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology...

Fishface wrote: "This: http://www.iol.co.za/news/africa/erec..."

They left the burning question unanswered: ""He seems to have believed them," he said. Police could not say whether the erection has now subsided. - Sapa-AFP"

Slapping the cuffs on the guy probably worked.

Fishface wrote: "And this groundbreaking innovation in motivation for mutilation:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology..."

Linky is broken apparently.

And this:

https://www.bizarrepedia.com/vlado-ta...

Lady♥Belleza★✰ wrote: "Fishface wrote: "And this groundbreaking innovation in motivation for mutilation:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology..."

Linky is broken apparently."

Huh. It works for me!

One crime that totally needs a book written about it is the twin murders of Josemir Abreu and Otavio da Silva. So far I haven't found one:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_o...

I was looking for something else online and in my usual way, found a spree killer new to me -- one not listed anywhere, not even Wikipedia or Murderpedia.

Has anyone but me ever come across the interstate murder spree of Emmitt Spencer and Mary Catherine Hall? Is there a book about these two birds? I seriously doubt it, but I thought I'd ask anyway.

There a few true crime stories that were written and published. There was a man in Missouri who 30 years ago, shot and killed a couple who ran a country store just for money and liquor. The man has been released and is now a lead manager for the Marriott Residence Inn in Kansas City, Kansas on Village Place Pkwy. The name of the short story is The Villian of Residence Inn I believe by Candy Michelle Johnson. Another true crime story that took place in a hotel when a serial rapist was stalking guests and employees at the Scottsdale, Hilton, the name of the story is Hilton Hotel Secrets by Donald Lee Starr. Also, The Tenant of Hotel California is about how the Catholic Church of San Diego allows drug dealing and use in their apartment communities.

Victor wrote: "There a few true crime stories that were written and published. There was a man in Missouri who 30 years ago, shot and killed a couple who ran a country store just for money and liquor. The man has..."

Thanks for posting!

What cases I think deserve a full length book?

Lucian Staniak, Anatoly Slivko, Sergey Golovkin, Alexander Spesivtsev, Nikolai Dzhumagaliev, Tamara Samsonova, Mikhail Popkov, Magdalena Solis, James Huberty, Robert Hawkins, Elliot Rodgers, Jennifer San Marco, Patrick Purdy, Woo Bum-kon, James Pough, and a ton more.

I would also like a book about Christine Chubbuck.
Some of you might know some of the names of the other people but I doubt any of you know who Christine Chubbuck is.

She was a news reporter in the 70s. She suffered from depression and decided to kill her self live on camera during a news report.

"In keeping with Channel 40's policy of bringing you the latest in 'blood and guts', and in living color, you are going to see another first—attempted suicide."

I think her case is incredibly important. Her case is very similar to work place mass shootings, but killed only her self. She had been protesting against the "if it bleeds, it leads." sensationalism at her new station.

I wish they released a translated version of the books about
Tsutomu Miyazaki, Joachim Kroll, Walter Seifert, Mutsuo Toi, Olga Hepnarova, and Tim Kretschmer. Instead I have to resort to untranslated documentaries.

Jay wrote: "I would also like a book about Christine Chubbuck.
Some of you might know some of the names of the other people but I doubt any of you know who Christine Chubbuck is."

**cough**
https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...

I've already seen the movie Christine. I knew about Chubbuck years BEFORE the movie was even made.

The movie isnt a completely accurate portrait.
For instance the "serial killer in Gainsville" That was Danny Rolling and was in the 90s! Not the 70s. They also don't show her doing her news story about suicide and learning about suicide from a detective.

It's a great movie. I suffer from depression. I always have and I could really relate to it. My favorite part of the film is when she is talking with her mom and the mother says "You have these moods, baby. You know you do. You put all this pressure on your self and this is how it comes out." I also love the scene where she is yelling at her boss at the station before that scene and he's yelling at her "Go home!"

I can totally relate.

Very good movie.

NO movie is a completely accurate portrait. The medium fictionalizes any real-life subject matter.

Which is fine. I generally have an issue with "based on a true story" I think it should be ILLEGAL to call a movie "based on a true story" unless it is at least 90% factual.

Christine is a pretty accurate portrait of what happened.
I am perfectly fine with it. I actually like the film. I've watched it many times. I enjoy it.

This is why I want a nonfiction book about it.
A true crime book about it. I've gotten a fictionalized but accurate account, now give me a book of "nothing but the facts."

Well, as anyone familiar with The Shoe-Maker Anatomy of a Psychotic knows, even totally factual books can be pretty well fiction.

Of course there are fictional true crime books due to the author being an idiot but I am talking about an actual true crime book that is factually accurate about Christine Chubbuck.

By the way, true crime often uses fictionalized narratives. For instance they may use fictional dialog, or what the killer "might of" done. They may even state what the victim was thinking as they were being brutally murdered. I am generally forgiving of that, because of context and it doesnt completely ruin a book.
One book, they make up a fictional police officer to use as a springboard to discuss some of the sentiment. Now that's weird and seems pointless, but I was okay with that.

Because we don't know ALL the facts and the WHOLE TRUTH and nothing but the truth I don't think it's possible to write an entirely 100% accurate account. I reject absolute truth because as far as I can see it's unattainable. I am fine with that.

I would say context is what matters and how far the "fictional" goes. There is a line there. Flora Schreiber never bothered to corroborate claims this "listen and believe" nonsense and I have no respect or time for that. For me her books are a total waste of time and space. It's worse then yellow journalism.

Jay,
I agree with you that 100% truth isn't possible, but I draw the line at the author presuming to be able to see into the victim's mind, or even into the perpetrator's mind unless s/he presents documentation of how he s/he came by the information. And I'm not okay with creating fictional springboards. That indicates the author is unable to frame a well reasoned sentiment, as you call it.
The best true crime writing reads like a well-written newspaper article.

"unless s/he presents documentation of how he s/he came by the information." I agree, if it is entirely fabricated and based on absolutely nothing then I agree. I would argue that for most if not all of the fictional liberties.

"And I'm not okay with creating fictional springboards. That indicates the author is unable to frame a well reasoned sentiment, as you call it." I agree, but it didn't really ruin the book for me. Yeah, I thought it was stupid, but what ever.

I would say the best true crime read in my view is all of the good juicy interesting facts, no filler, well paced, lots of interesting information from multiple sources, reconstructions of what happened, history of the decade, town/city; all the cultural stuff at the time period, and a psychological and sociological profile.

I would say that some books are important. Very important when it comes to true crime history and one reason is that although it might be full of lies at least we get something out of it. Such as the killer's psychology. Or it's a book that is a product of it's time and place.

My point is that there are several context where I can say "even if it's full of lies from the killer trying to justify their crimes." or what ever or it's a 1960s or 40s context." it still is important that it exists.

I may not buy it and even dislike it and consider it garbage like The shoe maker but I can still see some context where it has at least some redeeming quality. Depending on the context.

Hari wrote: "Jay,
I agree with you that 100% truth isn't possible, but I draw the line at the author presuming to be able to see into the victim's mind, or even into the perpetrator's mind unless s/he presents..."

I both agree and disagree. Most writers are either novelistic or journalistic, but a few Promethean geniuses manage to be both and know how to write novelistically without taking liberties with the facts. Think of the opening passages of Helter Skelter: The True Story of the Manson Murders, in just a few words painting this incredibly clear picture of Topanga Canyon on the night of the Tate murders:

"It was so quiet, one of the killers would later say, you could almost hear the sound of ice rattling in cocktail shakers in the homes way down the canyon."

That's one of the places where novel intersects with fact. All he really did was quote one of the killers, but a guy writing a newspaper article might have skipped over that quote in order to use something less lyrical, more informative. Bugliosi knew better.

Jay raises an interesting point. In fact it's one we've discussed before, here and at (sniffle!) Shelfari. Flora Schreiber -- especially in The Shoe-Maker Anatomy of a Psychotic -- was clearly NOT writing fiction, but she clearly was also gullible enough to fall for anything her informant, who was lying like a rug, said to her. So is it fiction or nonfiction?

Jay has ripped into Schreiber multiple times in discussions, calling her a "sleazy tabloid journalist" among other things, even though she was nothing of the sort. She was an English professor who taught at the John Jay College of Criminal Justice, for Pete's sake -- she didn't write 'Batboy' stories for the Weekly World News. The fact is, she knew as little about abnormal psychology as the average English professor, and she wrote very well with that level of expertise and insight. Even people in the mental-health field make the same mistake she made with Joe Kallinger -- "If he's psychotic, he can't be held responsible for his actions, period." And to me, that makes her POV more valid, not less. She speaks for millions of people who can't tell a real psychotic from a faker, and don't realize that even the worst psychotic is going to be lucid at times, and didn't imagine that you can look at that person's actions and see how lucid he or she was at the time of the crime.

And she also outs herself completely in The Shoe-Maker Anatomy of a Psychotic as someone who doesn't understand what she's seeing, and doesn't realize she's being played. Which makes the book even more worth reading.

A parallel is every book that ever set out to prove that this or that guy was definitely, absolutely Jack the Ripper. The author believes it. But he's probably wrong. Does that really make it fiction? If you ask me (and I know you didn't) there's a line to be drawn between wrong conclusions and deliberate lies.

Watching the verdict today on the Michelle Carter trial I soooo want to read a book about this. This is the trial of the girl (17 at the time) who encouraged an 18 year old guy that she had met once on vacation but had not seen since to commit suicide via text message. She was charged with involuntary manslaughter. She could have gotten 7 to 12 years but she got 15 months in a correctional facility and 15 months probation. I wondered what I would do if I were on the jury. I wanted to know more about her upbringing, if she was a troublemaker or a good kid who just made a bad choice, etc. I think there could be a lot of background information for this book.

Harrison "Marty" Graham. He needs a book about him.

This: http://wickedwe.com/hoarder-moms-son-...

Just the fact that this guy calls himself "Pazuza" requires this messed-up story to be made into a book:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/artic...

This desperately needs a book written about it:

http://fox17online.com/2017/01/25/sus...

There is a book about part of this story, Luke Karamazov, but it doesn't cover the tripleheader described in the article linked above. James Fallon, the author of The Psychopath Inside: A Neuroscientist's Personal Journey into the Dark Side of the Brain, would be wild about this story.

This definitely needs a book:

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/woman-ge...

The story of Bonebreaker of Baraboo, Wisconsin definitely needs a book written about it. I heard the story on a podcast, and haven't been able to get it out of my head.

Joe Clark was a teenager in a community who kidnapped two young boys and tortured them by breaking ALL the bones in their legs, then trying to reset them and breaking them again.

The first victim, Joe got away with. No one knew he did it, but they found the boy and mistakenly assumed he had drown. And they didn't do X-rays of the body because there was no obvious reason to.

But his next victim, who had an unfathomable will to survive, told the police that Joe had confessed to killing the other boy.

Guys, this story....so much to think about! How did Joe Clark become this way? And why was breaking bones his fetish? And Thad Phillips....I just....I am blown away by his will to survive. He was with Joe Clark for DAYS and never gave up trying to get help. He is an amazing individual.

I would love a book about this. Just to get more info on both the criminal and the victim.

http://murderpedia.org/male.C/c/clark...

What podcasts? I am obsessed with podcasts, esp, the murder ones
.erib

There have already been a couple of books about Jacob Wetterling written before the murder was solved. For those not familiar Jacob was a 12 year old boy from Minnesota that was abducted and killed almost 30 years ago and the murder was just solved a couple of years ago. His mother was very high profile, even running for the Minnesota legislature, and I'm sure the case probably would have gone unsolved if it wasn't for her family keeping it in the news. Tomorrow over 1,000 pages of investigation reports are being released to the public. The family is very upset about this. I'm wondering if someone will write an updated book now that more information is being made public.

Why is the family upset about the release if information if the case is already cleared?

I NEED to read a book about the Baraboo Bonebreaker. I never heard of that one before. Super twisted!

Fishface wrote: "Why is the family upset about the release if information if the case is already cleared?

I NEED to read a book about the Baraboo Bonebreaker. I never heard of that one before. Super twisted!"

I believe they do not want to hear the gory details or want the public to know how badly he was raped and tortured before he was killed. Our local TV station said they were not going to discuss personal information out of respect for the family and instead focused on the ineptness of the investigators. It sounds like the case could have been solved a lot sooner if they had followed leads in a timely manner and some were not followed at all. For instance, Danny Heinrich, the murderer, had a charge of child molestation filed on him six months before Jacob was murdered, and yet no one questioned him. I think there is going to be a lot of information for a new book or at least a reprint of an existing one.

Saw this one on Dr. Oz today. Dr. Christopher Duntsch, aka Dr. Death. Operated on over 30 people that he left paralyzed or dead. Now serving life in prison.

https://allthatsinteresting.com/dr-de...

If you like Dr. Oz, he has True Crime Tuesdays and Thursdays. Sometimes Nancy Grace is on and then I dont watch it. She is like chalk on a blackboard or eating aluminum foil.

I feel the same way Koren. Nancy Grace is awful, in her view everyone arrested is guilty.

To be fair to her, midt of them probably are...