Goodreads Authors/Readers discussion

So many authors self-publish these days that sometimes every discussion, blog post, or promotion I read is only for those who do self publish. I am wondering why so many people do not submit to indie publishers but choose to publish on their own? I've been published by several indie publishers and loved and learned from each one and each one is/was legitimate and paid royalties no matter how small. That way the author does not shell out money for cover art, editing and getting the book into online and bookstores (when they can). I've never had a bad cover, had editors that helped and encouraged me, and the pleasure of speaking and working with other authors on the roster.
Why do you or don't you submit to indie publishers?

I've never even heard of that option! It sounds like a really beautiful way to publish :)
Personally, I've enjoyed the process of self-publishing so far. It's a bit stressful, but that's only due to the fact that you make all your own decisions, and that's a freedom I enjoy too much to give up lightly.
Indie publishing sounds really cool though! It might be fun to try out for a book or two.

I don't submit to small presses because they can't offer me anything I can't do for myself. Yes they cover the costs of editing and covers, but those aren't huge expenses. Why give up half my royalties and all the control for... what? If you go small press you still have to do all the marketing and advertising yourself, the only difference is someone else is benefitting from your effort.

It's free to upload your book at retailers and it only takes minutes, again not overly difficult.

The overwhelming majority of small presses will NOT get your book into stores, especially if they do POD. And even if they do, your title will have just a few short weeks to prove itself or it will get pulled.

By self publishing I retain all control and I keep all profits. I have full control to change price for promotions as I see necessary. My titles make back the cost of editing and covers within the first month. I sell more paperbacks via CreateSpace than I ever did when a publisher had my titles on a shelf in B&N.

I cannot see the appeal of a small press at all.

P.I. wrote: "...paid royalties no matter how small..."

That's basically it. And independent presses don't have the perks the big publishers do, so you don't get the good stuff.

Check your contract reversion clause: it shouldn't be more than 5-7 years, with a firm date (not based on 'copies in print' - which can be taken to mean ebooks, and they last forever) after which the whole deal is over, AND you own everything, including the cover, to do with as you will.

Get a lawyer who knows book contracts to check the contract before you sign it.

Doing it myself was fun, educational, time consuming (I was a rank beginner in graphics, for example), and now I know how to evaluate a commercial offer, because I know what is easy and what is hard.

Because all my life I've had to work for other people and do things their way. It's nice to, just once, be my own boss.

Now everyone, don't freak out if this sounds like i'm being snotty or anything I don't mean it that way, okay? First off my rights have already been restored with one book of a trilogy with the other two in a year or two, so I've learned that all the indies use the same basic contract which is simple and straightforward and the indies practice what they say they will. So that's one point. I have self published one book and it was an awful experience and I doubt I'll ever do it again. And I bought the cover art for little money.
Second, what is this money people think they are or will make by stopping splitting the royalties? I keep hearing that statement but I rarely see any authors making over $10,000 per year or per quarter or any lower decent amount if that so I don't get it. If you're making that or over, then yes I completely see the validity of your arguments. What about relinquishing a bit of control for quality? I've seen a lot of cover art that looked hand-drawn and I passed on reading those books because it just looked amateurish and I figured the writing would be too. I just don't get this "control" issue authors seem to have (no I am not referring to anyone here). I've never and I mean NEVER have had an issue with writing, editing, or as I said cover art--I've been blessed with publishers. None of the indies I've signed with has tried to edit, majorly overhaul, or change my work in any way other than proof reading and grammar editing. If I could learn to do my own covers I probably would but I like the fact that artists can come in with new eyes and that I could communicate enough with them that they can get into my head and create exactly what I was trying to express. Not only that but I can concentrate on what I do which is write.
All I am trying to do here is figure this out and that's why I asked here rather than somewhere else. I'm also just trying to let people know that sometimes you can get in with a legitimate if small or new press and the things you learn from them are a lot like larger pub houses.
Oh, also many of those bigger pub houses don't roll out the publicity or marketing machines any longer due to less money made these days.
I mean every time one of my novels is released I have worked my butt off getting the word out because I consider that part of my job as well. I've done in-store book launches, book signings at book fairs and done speaking engagements at libraries etc.
So another thing I'm wondering is how much marketing do you do and what you think is successful for you.
Again I don't mean to sound uppity and I apologize if I do, but I like smaller presses and really and truly don't understand why people don't seem to give them a try.
Maybe I'm wrong but I would think that if and when you do sign with a major house, you'll have experience and maybe a small amount of writing history to present them.
I could be crazy though. That's been known to happen, lol.
Uh oh, I just looked at this amount of writing and if you've had the patience to read it all, thank you!

It was a fiasco in terms of what? Was it the payment of royalties? Was it artwork? Was it the rights to your work? I'm asking only to understand what went wrong--not to get personal.
Victoria wrote: "A.W. wrote: "I don't submit to small presses because they can't offer me anything I can't do for myself. Yes they cover the costs of editing and covers, but those aren't huge expenses. Why give up ..."

I only publish through an indie publisher. They do advertise via newsletter, they have their own online outlets plus affiliates, plus they get my books up on Amazon and the like. The contract is only one year, and they always pay on time with a full accounting of sales. Plus their cut is much less than 50%. They will format for me into epub, mobi, rtf, and pdf, and will even do covers for those who can't supply their own.

See, that's what I want to know and the issue with different pricing is a viable one. Rarely do small presses change prices for a sales special or anything. That is one of the issues/problems that I see only because I'd love to lower the price for a short amount of time. Other than that I don't really have any problem with small presses.
A.W. wrote: "I don't submit to small presses because they can't offer me anything I can't do for myself. Yes they cover the costs of editing and covers, but those aren't huge expenses. Why give up half my royal..."

P.I. wrote: " I just looked at this amount of writing and if you've had the patience to read it all, thank you! ..."

Legitimate questions all.

Let me answer with an example. My writing partner (we've been friends for over 15 years, and writing partners for the first part of that). She wanted a traditional contract. She GOT one! Small press. And I congratulated her (very long story how many people she had to meet at the cons she went to...). Her first book was to come out in March 2016. Then it was pushed back to Sept. 2016. For sure.

But now the publisher tells her they aren't going to publish HER kind of book any more.

So after going through years of all that, and cutting 50K words from a 130K ms. on spec, she will have ONE book out with them, in a category they will no longer be doing. And then she starts from scratch again.

Meanwhile, at about the time she got her contract, I had finished writing my debut novel, learned graphics, formatting, editing, etc., created the mobi for Kindle, and the pdfs for Createspace, and published (late last Oct. - ebook, mid-Dec. - print).

Small presses, even well known ones, fold regularly. Or are bought out. Or change directions. Or go bankrupt. That's when that 'control' proves its value: if you have SP arrangements, you find other outlets - it's no big deal. Whereas it IS a big deal if a small publisher folds while still holding rights to your book. Or doesn't pay.

I'm glad you've had a positive experience - this is why they still exist. But it isn't something people can rely upon. Even the big publishers drop authors and editors and book like fall leaves.

I studied all that via the SP blogs before deciding (I thought I wanted the traditional deal, too, even though I was pretty sure I'd never get an agent or publisher for Pride's Children) that I would at least try the SP route, see what I could learn and what I could do myself, and be in a better place to acquire professional help if I needed it.

Every piece of the SP puzzle yielded to work. And I am a far more educated consumer should I want someone to design a cover for me in the future. None of the things I learned proved to be so esoteric they required a pro to do them 'for me.' NONE. And everything except the cover was EASY. The cover took over three months of concentrated learning, and I had a lovely mentor, an SP authors who does her own gorgeous covers and wrote about it.

My friend's experience (and those I've read about) have just confirmed my resolution. If I can do it myself, I will. And I'll be a stronger writer because of what I learned.

Now see what you did: ack - forgive all the words. It's very late - and I'm just going to let this stand.

Again, excellent questions. I wish you much success with your business relationships with small presses.

If you read all mine, I read all yours, lol! Once I get started, I'm out of control! You'd think I wouldn't have to add word count but I do! Thanks and good night! Alicia wrote: "P.I. wrote: " I just looked at this amount of writing and if you've had the patience to read it all, thank you! ..."

Legitimate questions all.

Let me answer with an example. My writing partner (w..."

P.I. wrote: "...I keep hearing that statement but I rarely see any authors making over $10,000 per year or per quarter "

I've had months where I've made over 10k and I certainly make many times that per annum. Hundreds (if not thousands) of indies are making 6-7 figures a year, you just don't hear about them because they are busy working hard. If you don't know anyone making a good living self publishing then perhaps you need to change where you are hanging out and look for more business focused groups. There's a huge difference between treating writing and publishing as a career and treating it as a hobby. Personally I find closed groups and private forums where the serious indies discuss all aspects of the business and I not only find them hugely inspiring but I've learned a lot.

P.I. wrote: "..I've seen a lot of cover art that looked hand-drawn and I passed on reading those books because it just looked amateurish"

I've seen numerous small press covers that fit that exact description. A good cover has zero to do with small press vs self published. Having a great cover is about doing your research, finding an artist who can produce something that speaks to your genre and meets reader expectations.

P.I. wrote: "..None of the indies I've signed with has tried to edit, majorly overhaul, or change my work in any way other than proof reading and grammar editing."

That to me is a huge red flag about the small presses you are signing with. Are you saying not a single one has done a developmental edit on your MS? Not a single one made any editorial suggestions about your novels apart from grammar and a proofread? Whoa.

If you've had a good experience with small presses and you're happy doing all the work for a small royalty then good for you. But don't come here and tell people who are self publishing that their product is inferior. I invest time and energy to ensure that my product is indistinguishable from a Big 5 trad published title and I believe that shows in my sales.

P.I. wrote: "If you read all mine, I read all yours, lol! Once I get started, I'm out of control! You'd think I wouldn't have to add word count but I do! Thanks and good night! ..."

Fun chatting with you and getting the good side of your indie publishers experience.