Sword & Sorcery: "An earthier sort of fantasy" discussion

From Knights of Writ -- Fiction Musings

No Prologues, and Don't Forget it

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Personally, I grew up absolutely loving prologues. It was such a cool way to introduce me to a story. I can still remember some of the ones I particularly loved. I remember many that simply ignited my desire to dive into a particular book. I used them myself in my early writing but don't now because, for reasons that I don't understand, people have decided they are awful. I still see essentially the same thing at times. Only, people now call them chapter 1. However, I suspect the bias against prologues has cost us some wonderful writing.

Depends on the book. Some they work well, others could be left out or incorporated into other chapters. When they work, it's a great way to set things up.

Charles wrote: "Personally, I grew up absolutely loving prologues. It was such a cool way to introduce me to a story. I can still remember some of the ones I particularly loved. I remember many that simply ignited..."

I absolutely agree. I enjoy prologues, especially in fantasy where I get my first glimpse of the author's world-building.

Richard wrote: "Depends on the book. Some they work well, others could be left out or incorporated into other chapters. When they work, it's a great way to set things up."

Yep, true; I have seen many loaded with backfill which immediately turns me off to a story.

Prologues do need to have a really good reason to exist. And in Sword & Sorcery I really don't see them work at all.

the problem with prologues is that too many writers use them to put in useless information that just slows down the arrival of the plot.

As a consequence, many readers skip the, and it's dangerous to put necessary information in there.

I have a prologue in my MS. My editor, bless her heart and hard work, advised me (at first) to lose it. Just get to the story. I disagreed, and this is why:

There is an established adage that states, "Start as close as possible to the end."

Well, what happens when something very significant happened several years (about 20 in my case) from when the main plot starts?

Or course, I could talk about that event as back story, with the character in question thinking about what happened 20 years ago or telling it to another character, but what happened was very dramatic, and would have lost a lot of impact with a "This one time at Band Camp" type of story.

Also, this event 20 years ago introduces the reader to the main antagonist. You learn what he is willing to do to acomplish what he desires. When this antagonist makes his appearance in the main story, he is all polite and dignified. But the reader will know better. "Oh shit! That's the guy from the prologue who did that nasty thing!"

I love it when the reader has information the protagonist does not.

Shadyia wrote: "I have a prologue in my MS. My editor, bless her heart and hard work, advised me (at first) to lose it. Just get to the story. I disagreed, and this is why:

There is an established adage that sta..."

Shadyia: I think your example is a perfect reason how Prologues can be a powerful tool, and heaven forbid your readers ignore it as some have mentioned they do. Your post intrigued me about your story--I wish you the best of luck with it. By-the-way, is it fantasy?

Any writing advice that starts with "Don't ..." or "Never..." needs to end with "...unless you're sure you know what you're doing."

Martin wrote: "Any writing advice that starts with "Don't ..." or "Never..." needs to end with "...unless you're sure you know what you're doing.""

Absolutely. Prologues, like any other piece of writing, can work well if they are done well. And if they're done badly...

Shadyia, interesting - also have a similar setup, though my prologue is set 11 years before, it is essentially for the same reason, to identify the primary antagonist, but to also establish a fundamental feature of the world that plays an integral part in the story. my duology is not S&S though.

I read every word of the books I read, so I've never skipped a prologue. there's been good and not so good, but I figure the author has something s/he wants me to know.

I too read pretty much every word of every book, though I have come to regret that decision at times when a book contains an "Introduction" to a later edition. Sometimes it's nice to have a bit of context to the story or the author, it's rarely enjoyable to have a story spoiled for you by an introduction that assumes everyone reading this later edition has already read the story.

Prologues though... some may seem somewhat superfluous, but rarely have I found them to be a detriment to a story. Normally they are pretty short too, a few pages, not even a full chapter, so a quick brush through to introduce characters or histories can be a useful tool. Though as an author I can see them being a dangerous thing. For one reason, like Mary had mentioned, some people skip them and if you had important information in one it could affect the readers enjoyment of the novel (shame on them anyway but...), which in turn can lead to potential negative reviews and that rarely helps. Reason two is that the prologue often does not represents the actual tone or pace of the novel, and can be, like Jack said, a bit of an info dump. So when a reader starts there, and is not instantly engrossed, they may just put the book down (again, shame on them but...), never to return, leading to one or more less sales for the author.

Dan, you make some very valid points. I, too, read everything (except maybe acknowledgements) and more often that not, enjoy prologues--as mentioned on my blog post, The Game of Thrones is an excellent example of a prologue well-done.

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A well-done prologue is great. Sadly, many are terrible. They're not a place for info dumps, they should be a pocket story. I like to think of them as the pre-title sequence in a movie (short, contained, and leave more questions than answers). Like you could have the prologue and the next page could be the Title Page followed by Chapter 1.

I agree with Seth. It's not an info dump. A pocket story is a good way to name it. Although good ones can also set tone, evoke mystery, or establish voice.

Hmm... my own short story opens with a prologue ;)

I think if it is done like the opening sequence of a Bond movie, they can be fun. At the very least it can set the tone and introduce your main protagonist in an exciting manner.

Seth wrote: "A well-done prologue is great. Sadly, many are terrible. They're not a place for info dumps, they should be a pocket story. I like to think of them as the pre-title sequence in a movie (short, cont..."

Ah, but one of the most memorable pre-title sequences is very much a "Info-dump", and that is the scrolling words prior to each Star Wars movie.

I still get a thrill when I read,

“Know, oh prince, that between the years when the oceans drank Atlantis and the gleaming cities,......

But I guess that's more an introduction than a prolog isn't it?

The opening crawls of Star Wars are actually briliant. They allow the creators to deliver a very considerable amount of background information in a very short amount of time, which would be really dificult to and time consuming to put into the mouths of characters, who all already know this.
It's a very efficient form of delivery that allows you to jump straight into the action and the cool parts and not wasting everyone's time and patience with flat monologues.

And I know of one writer who did it in a written story. Robert Howard in the first Conan story, The Phoenix on the Sword.

"[...] But the proudest kingdom of the world was Aquilonia, reigning supreme in the dreaming west. Hither came Conan, the Cimmerian, black-haired, sullen- eyed, sword in hand, a thief, a reaver, a slayer, with gigantic melancholies and gigantic mirth, to tread the jeweled thrones of the Earth under his sandalled feet."

It's like Athena jumping fully formed from the head of Zeus, as Robert Howard nails down the pure essence of Sword & Sorcery in the first paragraph of the story that established the style.

Martin wrote: "The opening crawls of Star Wars are actually briliant. They allow the creators to deliver a very considerable amount of background information in a very short amount of time, which would be really ..."

Hey that's the one I just posted.. the first sentence anyways. :)

Rick wrote: "Shadyia: I think your example is a perfect reason how Prologues can be a powerful tool, and heaven forbid your readers ignore it as some have mentioned they do. Your post intrigued me about your story--I wish you the best of luck with it. By-the-way, is it fantasy?"

Yes it is. Title: Beneath the Silver Rose. A low-magic, adult fantasy set in a parallel renascence time.

Every chapter an author writes needs to leave the reader enthusiastically eager to read the next chapter. The prologue shouldn't be any different. It should generate intense interest in the reader to immediately begin reading chapter 1.

If the prologue provides valuable background information, it should do so in a way that makes the reader want to learn more.

A bad prologue would be like a movie trailer that shows all the best bits of the film, leaving you muttering to your friend, "Watch the trailer, it's great, and it will save you the money of a movie ticket since you will have already seen all the good stuff."