Goodreads Authors/Readers discussion

Honestly I do not even know how many times I read my book. And what is interesting always find something to be upgraded and corrected. Is that the case only with me or other writers have the same experience

Stjepan

I continuously re-read previous paragraphs as I write and often make changes, and of course read (and listen - text to speech) once more at the editing phase. But I don't continue to second guess myself after that. I put it out to the publisher and go on to the next book.

Too many to stop enjoying reading them, that's for sure -:)

My first book was only about twenty pages, and I read it about three times to make significant edits, and then another two or three times to fix grammar and such. But looking back, I should have done a few more read-throughs before publishing, so I'm going to be a bit more of a perfectionist with my next book :)

At least one dozen times, at least twice with Natural Reader aloud, until I reached the point where I couldn't find any more things to "fix," because, since I was an editor in the past, I edited my own book, and I knew how the mind could skip over problems or fill in the blanks.

My book went through 8 manuscript appraisers, 4 beta readers and 2 professional editors. The finished product still had 2 spelling errors (found by a reader) that were corrected before release date.

Every book needs the services of a professional editor. Just like lawyers, the writers who edit themselves are making a serious mistake. Even if you have worked as an editor, you will miss errors in your own work. Those little mistakes will make your book look very amateur.

Writing takes time, effort, skill, and money to produce a polished product. No one would go into business without capital - why would a writer. It takes money to hire editors, engage cover designers, and promote the book. Treat your writing like a business and make a quality product your first priority.

5 edits myself, 3 from my editor, 2 beta readers. year and half before publish.

If you are your own editor and proofreader, I think you have to read through many times to catch most of the stuff. I do a grammar check with Word and Ginger, I check with http://grammark.org/dist/#/ and then with http://www.hemingwayapp.com/ for structure and various other errors, then I use Natural Reader to catch final errors. If I wait a few weeks, I find that you still catch lots of problems if you check it again after some time has passed.

I just learned about the Hemingway app site. I'm definitely going to use that when I get to the editing phase of my book (then I'll probably send it off to family/friends to read it and check for errors as well). Before that though, I plan to write it, read it and check for spelling/grammar mistakes, upload to the Hemingway site that JD mentioned, and then read it again to make sure my changes are ok, then send it to at least my mom and dad and have my boyfriend read it. Once I make all those changes, then I'll read it AGAIN and then I'll publish it.

I think in total that's 6 reads total...

I use the Voice Dream app to have my book read to me by my phone. So I can listen to it many times while i'm doing other tasks.

A couple of rounds with me then it goes off to critique partners, beta readers, and two rounds with a professional editor and finally a proofreader. Each of those steps means another edit round for me before it passes to the next person in the chain.

For short stories I average two or three rounds of edits, then a final proofread prior to submission. However, for novellas and novels it is usually four rounds of edits before the final proofread. Then, of course you have a further two or three rounds of edits with the publisher once pieces are accepted.

Samantha wrote: "I just learned about the Hemingway app site. I'm definitely going to use that when I get to the editing phase of my book (then I'll probably send it off to family/friends to read it and check for e..."
That all sounds good, except for using your family for beta or proof readers. They are bound to be prejudice one way or another. Either they will not be critical, because they do not want to hurt your feelings, or they want you to 'stop wasting your time' on your hobby, and put that effort into a 'real job'.
I think that the best beta or proof readers would be other Authors that are into the same genre that you are. Preferably Indies, and carefully picked for a noncompetitive attitude.

The Just-About-Average Ms M wrote: "Well, I must say, with the glaring error in the title of this thread, I don't think much of folks' proofreading skills..."

That is because we don't do edits when we can get the point across to our forum members quickly. The editing is for the product.

All that proofreading and I can't think of a single book I've read this year that didn't have a typo or three.

And there have been some whoppers, like the scientist at the "pentacle of his career."

DJ Zippergirl wrote: "All that proofreading and I can't think of a single book I've read this year that didn't have a typo or three.

And there have been some whoppers, like the scientist at the "pentacle of his career.""
I do not think that there is such a thing as a 'perfect edit'. Doing a decent job should be enough. Or, to paraphrase Rodney, "Can't we just get along, without being perfectionist in an imperfect world?"

Well, 'pentacle of his career' is better than 'pentangle of his career', I suppose...

Grace wrote: "Well, 'pentacle of his career' is better than 'pentangle of his career', I suppose..."

That's the spirit!

I have read my books dozens of times before publication, possibly hundreds between revision and editing. I've had beta readers and my local writer's group read it a few more times. Even then, readers have found a few mistakes.

Granted, I'm reading a Dresden Files book and have found at least 3 or 4 mistakes in that and it is professionally edited.
We are not perfect nor do we live in a perfect world. We need to take the time to make our work as good as we can, but at some point you have to stop or it would never get published.

The Just-About-Average Ms M wrote: "Well, I must say, with the glaring error in the title of this thread, I don't think much of folks' proofreading skills..."

I certainly was not good at proofreading, especially in English because it is not my native language. I use google translator and apologize for grammatical errors. :)

J.D. wrote: "If you are your own editor and proofreader, I think you have to read through many times to catch most of the stuff. I do a grammar check with Word and Ginger, I check with http://grammark.org/dist/..."

Thanks J.D for suggesting these apps. English being not my native language, i got some reviews indicating my book as difficult read.
I read my book thrice before publishing but now again undergoing proofreading, and i hope these apps would help me to the fullest.

Vasudha wrote: "J.D. wrote: "If you are your own editor and proofreader, I think you have to read through many times to catch most of the stuff. I do a grammar check with Word and Ginger, I check with http://gramm..."

Your welcome. I hope they help.

I have a lot of trouble finding people to help with corrections. I was lucky to have a couple of other authors help, but usually my friends and acquaintances don't speak English.

I don't have a specific amount of times, I'll read them again and again until I can read them at least twice and find no errors.... Unfortunately, I always find more after they're published.

As Theresa pointed out, there are errors even in well-known professionally edited books, so that's a small comfort.

I read through my book three or four times before I send it to my friend who sends me feedback and then I look at her comments/grammar corrections whatever and make another edit (she is super harsh when she needs to be and super detail oriented so she finds most of the grammar/spelling stuff). She then looks over what I changed and makes further comments. I probably do 6 or 7 drafts before I am comfortable sending it off to strangers to try to get published. (Not published yet, but have had some really positive feedback, so crossing my fingers).

I am sure that even then, there are going to be mistakes we didn't catch, but at that point we need a new pair of eyes. It is as good as it is going to get until I can find someone willing to publish it.

I probably lost count after two dozen, lol. I just do it through the writing, re-writing and after all the editing and suggestions from the editor.

I get to a point where I just have to force myself to stop. If I didn't it would be years further down the road before publishing. Even after they've been published, I still think of things I coulda woulda shoulda!

I read and re-read sections as I write (countless times), and then when I think it is finished I read it through 2-3 times.

no matter how many times i have read and re-read and sent it out, i still find a few errors everyone missed. these minor things can be revised and uploaded without anyone noticing (whew) so i'm not sweating it too hard.

but, i don't worry too much because a) it'll never be "perfect" and b) tastes change. I once read a book i liked long ago and read it now and i cringe at the writing style. i found myself trying to edit the damn thing. lolz.

I read and revised my first book six times before sending it to the editor and then another two times after incorporating the editor's suggestions. I learned a lot from that experience and only needed two revisions before sending my second book to the editor. I've just finished up those changes and will read once (maybe twice) more before publishing. As everyone else has pointed out, there will always be something that was missed!

Over six years of revisions, probably no less than 40 or 50 times, not including partial readings.

I have read my work over 10 times, maybe more. It's my current, and only work I've been writing up for the past year or two. Add me as a friend if you're looking for friends. :)

I trust my judgement over that of a computer program when it comes to writing style. As for Hemingway App -

https://whyevolutionistrue.wordpress....

About 5 or 6 times. Some of those were after the editor had made their fixes and suggestions. There were errors after the editor had gone through it which I then fixed. I don't get angry, I just realise the editor is human and see it as a collaborative effort. What I missed, she picked up. What she missed, I picked up. I have never seen an error free book, even from mainstream publishers. I know we got it as close to error free as possible and am happy with the end result.

I read my first novel countless times changing it every time I picked it up. I downloaded a grammar programme, which just made my work sound like a robot had printed out a dot matrix.
So I soon stopped using it. Relentless reviewing and ruthlessness is needed, if you plan to edit the book yourself. No book is absolutely perfect. My wife picked up 50 shades of grey, and found faults throughout the book.

Let's see. A rough draft, a finished draft, a revised finished draft, a Whitesmoke examination draft, a draft as I get feedback from Beta readers. I think that's it. Then I get a mobi file and let the robot voice read to me as I follow the text.
Do I still overlook errors? Yes. The problem is that after all the re-reading, I see what I thought I wrote instead of what I actually wrote.
A word about "grammar programs" (excuse the American spelling), take what they tell you as suggestions only. I've yet to encounter one that isn't an idiot at times.

Can I count the number of times I've read the whole book through nonstop from beginning to end? Hm. So many versions. So many years of revisions. When I think I have something complete, I print it and read it, marking each scene and sequel for character goals and for conflicts and the setbacks or "disasters" that move the plot forward while challenging the lead character. I highlight what needs cutting or revision. If I didn't do it this way on paper, I'd be word-picking and finessing, not reading for plot and flow. I revise and send it to critique partners. Get feedback and revise again. Read it again. Send it again. Revise it again. Maybe another round with different critiquers. Then there is the "cut" revision where I look for excess verbiage and trim it. Send it to my editor.Then the post-editing read. Then proofreader gets it. I fix errors. I read it again in e-pub so it looks like a Nook book. Read it again after any changes to make sure again. Phew.!

Like those who replied before me, I reread the previous sections where I've left off before advancing with the speed of a glacier. You might say it's also a good warm-up technique to keep the focus. By the time I've finished a chapter, the text has gotten quite a workout. As for reading the manuscript in its entirety--several times before submitting it for publication, and nearly every time I'll find a little bug or get an impulse to tweak something for the better.

I do not rely on other editors to proof my work and I have my reasons for that. I do know that I am my own harshest critic.

I cant count the number of times I reread each section. Eventually you have to let it go, get some beta readers, editors, trust the opinions of readers. Once you have satisfied yourself that you have made it the best you can and have at least considered the opinions of those you trusted to give you feedback, let it find a life of it's own and don't look back.

Start with this premise: Professionally edited or not, it is never going to be perfect. I read mine cover to cover numerous times as my Word file folder proves: Draft1, Draft2...7, Final, Final revised, Galley. I also used two beta readers. Once I published on Amazon, reviewers pointed out errors which were easy to correct using that platform

Not counting how many times I read a section before advancing, and not counting the number of times I've backtracked to read up to and including where I left off--just counting the number of times I'd read my manuscript in its entirety from beginning to end: probably more than ten times. I'd read it at least three more times after that when I got the first proof back.

Needless to say, the story is so ingrained in me that I have written at least six different synopses to parlay when I need them.

After it's completely edited a few times on my computer, I move it over to my Kindle. I've read it a few times on my Kindle and have caught a few small things. I first read it to see if any sentence structure or words could be changed for better readability. I highlight those sections in the note feature and then make changes. I then read to proofread. I then read the whole thing as a reader would, editor hat off.

Depends on which book. I read my first novel 19 times before publication but never for pleasure. It was always to spot check, edit, etc. My final read is always out loud as though I'm reading it to someone.

Hiya guys (and girls, obviously)!

*waves like a crazy person*

Heh. I thought I'd share my "process" since it's pretty bass ackwards and probably a bit cringeworthy to most (read: all) sensible authors :P Sooo...

1. Randomly sat down one day and started writing a story from scratch. No outline. No direction. No gameplan. (I do this all the time. Have a huge folder titled "Random Shizz". No joke.)
2. Fast forward 8 weeks: I was like, "Umm. I have over 40K words here. Maybe I should share this somewhere, eh?"
3. Googled. Found an established fiction blog (then later my own site) and started serializing chapters.
4. Finished story.
5. Had readers ask me to flesh out the story and release an ebook for them. I said yes. Of course. I'm a huge suck.
6. Edited, added additional content, googled how to make an ebook, whipped up a cover, etc.
7. Published exactly 3 weeks later. Yep 3 whole weeks.
8. Came to Goodreads and realized that I'm not the smartest cookie :)

Step 6 was my 1st time reading through the entire story (I know, I know. REALLY stupid of me *smirks*)

As for the 3-week deadline. Well...I opened my big mouth before realizing what a ginormous task it would be...but...I have this obsession with keeping my word...so yeah *shrugs*

I still have readers who are emailing/texting me with typos they find *sigh* But yep, that's how I did it *grins sheepishly*

Hugs,
Ann

EDIT: Ooops! I forgot to say, about a week ago I had another author (Thank you, Nicole!!!) give me some really constructive criticism. So I made a bunch of changes, shortened the manuscript by nearly 5K words, added some yumminess (romance tee hee) and released a 2nd edition...um...today :D

Like a million times. I read it, and my editor reads it, and my assistant over and over again. Then boom! Publishes it. I read it again and find few more mistakes; then, republish. I guess it's unending... that's why many authors have several editions.

Joed wrote: "For my sanity I say: Too many times.
Based on sales to date I say: not nearly enough times.
I love this thread! So many great comments.

Question? Can I add every reading of my own works to my Goo..."

I think all of us would then have hundreds read of our books. :)

I think I "only" read my third book about 10 times before it was published. Accordingly, I felt like I published it without reading it at all. *L*

I try to avoid overreading my books. I don't edit as I write so the first pass through is a general edit for flow, pace, and obvious mistakes. Then off to my beta reader. She is well read in the genre and is in the BDSM lifestyle. Her goal is to read as a reader and tell me where the "holes" are. After that, I read it again then off to my editor. After she finishes with it I will read it two more times then publish it.

First book - 9 years in the making, 27 versions of the same story, had it professionally edited, and had 4 beta readers. No small task. I read and reread the story, countless times too. Currently, my second novel, have about 16 versions of the same story. Had it professionally edited, and beta read. And, I don't think I'm done yet. Will be doing a launch team effort before publication. When it is all said and done, it's you who has to live with the final story. No one is perfect, errors happen. Just keep at it and do what YOU think is best. And, outsource and use professionals where needed. When you invest so much into story, it is worth it, when you know you've captured the emotion and description of your characters. Good luck. Great thread here. www.chiaratalluto.com.

"Art is never finished, only abandoned."
- Leonardo da Vinci

Only you can decide when you're ready to release your work on the world, Chiara. It is so easy to self-publish that too many of us (myself included!) make the mistake of putting our writing out there too soon.

My first book took 8 years, but I didn't go to nearly the effort you did. As a hobbyist, I published my first novel after my wife and I read and edited it about a half dozen times. I had only really ever intended to put it out there for family and friends to read, so I had no idea so many others would find it, let alone enjoy it or critique it.

Best wishes!

Michael wrote: ""Art is never finished, only abandoned."
- Leonardo da Vinci

Only you can decide when you're ready to release your work on the world, Chiara. It is so easy to self-publish that too many of us (m..."

Touche' Michael. Love the quote from Leonardo da Vinci. Too many people also give up too soon. It's not the end result, someone once said, it's the journey. Keep up the good work on your writing. Be well. Chiara

Chiara wrote: "Michael wrote: ""Art is never finished, only abandoned."
- Leonardo da Vinci

Only you can decide when you're ready to release your work on the world, Chiara. It is so easy to self-publish that t..."

I knew an artist (now deceased) who's paintings were so good that they looked like photographs (and they were gorgeous). His biggest problem was that he was never done. He'd fiddle with a painting for years and never let go of it. So, he never sold anything.