Support for Indie Authors discussion

I've been reading pros and cons related to do a pre order on Amazon, at least for a long time - more than a few weeks.
My book has been on pre-order for two days, with no sale.

What are your thoughts on the subject? Did you have your ebook on pre-order? How many did you sell?

Thank you!
Rita

I had my latest release on preorder for six weeks to coinside with the start of the tour. There was a stop nearly every single day and I and the tour hosts promoted the daylights out of it. There were a lot of great comments about trying the book, how it looked interesting, etc.... Not one single preorder. Will I do it again for the next book? Yes, because it didn't hurt anything to have it up for preorder. I just didn't see how it helped either.

It will help once you start to build a reader base. Makes a difference more when you have established readers than when you're still trying to build. #PerseveranceIsKey!

I use the preorder function for one reason: to have a hard release date and not a 'as soon as Amazon loads this...' If i get a preorder sale then bonus.

Christina wrote: "I use the preorder function for one reason: to have a hard release date and not a 'as soon as Amazon loads this...' If i get a preorder sale then bonus."

That's a good way to look at it!

Yes, having the link is the best reason, but I would love to have one sale :)
I even posted a 2 chapter preview on my website because amazon doesn't have the sample for pre-orders (I wish they had, as a reader and author).

I think pre-orders are useful, especially if your book is in a series. I put my first book up for pre-order and had a decent number of sales, but I'm sure they were mostly friends and family. When the first book was released, I made sure that book two was available for pre-order at the same time. I really noticed the sales then. For book three, I had a longer time between releases so couldn't put it on pre-order the same day book two released (Amazon only lets you have a 90 day pre-order), but by then I was building my readership and had a newsletter. When book three was finally available for pre-order, I sent out a notification to my subscribers and again, the sales have started to come in. My book doesn't release until June and I imagine they will keep coming in until then. You don't have to worry if the copy you put up on KDP is just a draft, Amazon doesn't allow the preview function on pre-orders. You can put the final manuscript up just before the release date (but remember to do so and mark it as the final copy or you'll get in trouble from Amazon).

I just put a Kindle book up for pre-sell for the 6th time. Previous sales have been from 2 to 24. I have a theory that the farther out the release date is the fewer the sales. I always upload an almost-ready draft and set the release date out as far as possible (the 90 days) to give myself plenty of time to put up the final version in case "life" happens. I can always move the date up when I have the final ready - a treat for those who've ordered. That's when I see the sales pick up. But having it on presale does 2 things: gives me opportunity to promote like crazy. And then when it releases those presales all count toward launching me to the Hot New Releases list on Amazon, which gives me another excuse to promote like crazy. That book that only had 2 presales? I didnt see any sales for weeks. So if it's only been a couple days I wouldn't worry. Just keep promoting.

I don't know that a preorder really makes that big a difference without the in depth promotion before you announce a preorder.
Eork your website, your email lists, twitter and pound Facebook.
It just takes time and there's millions of people selling books on Amazon. What makes yours so different is the buyer motivation you have to sell.
Best, luck.

This smashwords survey seems to say their pre-orders are pretty successful, as well as more information on what is selling and why. I am not sure about Amazon for pre-orders. I am going to try it.

http://blog.smashwords.com/2015/12/Sm...

I have never done one. I am interested.

Main things to note: your completed MS needs to be uploaded no less than ten days out. At that point, you must note this and hit publish again otherwise it won't recognize and as Lisa noted, you'll be in trouble.

However, if you have a finished product, you don't need to worry about that ten days. To be completely honest, I saw enough wrong draft horror stories when they first offered this that I decided I was too paranoid to upload anything but my final draft. I've set up preorders that were just a couple days out as easily as several weeks.

Christina wrote: "Main things to note: your completed MS needs to be uploaded no less than ten days out. At that point, you must note this and hit publish again otherwise it won't recognize and as Lisa noted, you'll..."

This thread is perfect timing - I'm about to put my book on pre-order. I'm also not planning to load until I have the final manuscript. I'm not much of a gambler :)

I have my debut novel up for pre-order... and so far I have 12 sales from strangers. My family still needs to order LOL... but I don't want to push my book onto anyone. So I'll post about it online and then let them decide if they're interested. Most sales came from Instagram users...

Nice Danielle! Is that for your book Give it Back?

I have been considering venturing onto Instagram. My hubby has been there for a year, but he didn't seem to think it would be worth my time. (He is a foodie more than a reader, though, so not sure he would know!) I might have to take the leap!

Hi Heidi!

Yes for Give It Back. Send me your email address and I can send you some tips and tricks :)

Inbox me :)

I did a pre-order for Blood Ties in the month leading up to its release, but only got one pre-order out of it. I think for me, it was more the fact of having a hard-and-fast date to give people than anything else. It certainly wasn't for padding my sales, lol.

Danielle wrote: "Inbox me :)"

You rock! I sent you a message!

Heidi wrote: "Danielle wrote: "Inbox me :)"

You rock! I sent you a message!"

I received a friend request, but no message! :) Just letting you know!

I used preorder and facebook together. I created a facebook event with the title "Preorder Immortal Peace" and had the start time and the end time on the day of the release. I think that helped because if someone was invited, they might preorder in that moment. Then if they forget, the release date of the book would come around and they might be reminded to buy it through the facebook event. (Happening now: Preorder Immortal Peace).

So in my mind, preorder is helpful depending on how you use it to your advantage.

Immortal Peace

Tyler wrote: "I used preorder and facebook together. I created a facebook event with the title "Preorder Immortal Peace" and had the start time and the end time on the day of the release. I think that helped bec..."

What a great idea, Tyler!!

I used the pre-order feature for the first time for my latest release. I had a couple of pre-orders - I don't think it did any harm putting it up for pre-order and I would use the feature again.

I had one pre-order today :)
I think it might have been because of a good review.

Typically when I made a book available for pre-order, I'm not doing it with sales in mind (I usually don't even tell people it's available, and then when I do, I ask that they wait until the actual release date to buy it so that there will be a bigger increase in sales rank. The main reason I do pre-order is so I can make sure the book is released precisely when I want it to be. I never know how much of a delay there's going to be with KDP (with one of my novels, I stayed up until midnight so I could hit the button and let it process while I was sleeping, and by 8am it still wasn't ready). So to be perfectly honest, I use pre-orders a little bit out of laziness. But it's also because I feel like it's safer. You know your book will get published when it's supposed to. I like being able to hit the button and then just sit back and relax for a few days before the release.

I understand pre-orders, and why they are useful.

But for me, there is nothing as exciting as an email at 2:14 in the morning telling me that a book has gone live!

Perhaps when the next novel comes out I will do this, but the thrill of when will it show up is too exciting!

C.B. wrote: "I understand pre-orders, and why they are useful.

But for me, there is nothing as exciting as an email at 2:14 in the morning telling me that a book has gone live!

Perhaps when the next novel co..."

You actually still get that email, kinda. They email you a few hours ahead of time to let you know the preorder copies went out.

I used pre-order as an alea iacta est feature, but for my next book, it will be part of the promotion as well.

Yes!
My latest book underwent the pre-order option.
Then in the approaching weeks to actual release post like crazy (fb, Twitter, everywhere).
It builds anticipation.
AND you get the joy of zooming way up the book league as all the pre-orders accumulate into your release day. So you get a whole day of wonderful sales.

I think I managed 20.
But I was very almost no.1 in my category for the first time ever.
And the next couple of days I saw more sales.
Sadly it didn't last, but it was still a very good thing.
:-)

Is the 90 day thing new? I got sick of searching new releases because of the pages and pages of new releases I had to wade through if i didn't want to fine tune the search as narrowly as possible to remove them. Most of those books had release dates of a year or more out.

For that reason, I keep considering doing a preorder just to keep the book on the new release page and get people familiarized with it.

To add another question on topic, Does anybody offer their new release at a reduced price to entice people to buy it in advance? If so, how does that seem to work out?

T.L. wrote: "AND you get the joy of zooming way up the book league as all the pre-orders accumulate into your release day. So you get a whole day of wonderful sales. ..."

My understanding was that Amazon counted preorders on the day they came in, not on the first day of sale. This used to be the biggest argument against doing preorders on KDP.

Maybe they've changed the system recently?

Ken wrote: "My understanding was that Amazon counted preorders on the day they came in, not on the first day of sale..."

Your pre-orders are counted on your release day (it usually looks like they are split between the day before release and your release day, but I think this is because of time zone differences and when the release day actually occurs for different buyers).

Frankly, I don't know what the negative side is for using pre-order. If you get sales, great. If you don't, well, you won't get any if it isn't up for pre-order either so what is there to lose?

Having your book available for pre-order can only help increase your visibility because it gets your book out there in front of readers that much sooner. If you can tie it in with a 'coming soon' page at the back of a previous book that is already published, even better (don't forget you can update the mobi file of an existing publication to add content to the coming soon page).

I have my third book up for pre-order right now and I'm at triple digit sales so far with another six or so weeks to go to release day. Having it available for pre-order lets me provide the buy link now so that whenever I talk about my book, people can go immediately and buy it rather than have to wait and probably forget about it six weeks from now. Of course, it does help that my books are a series because when a reader finishes book two they can click and pre-order book three right away now.

Lisa wrote: "Ken wrote: "My understanding was that Amazon counted preorders on the day they came in, not on the first day of sale..."

Your pre-orders are counted on your release day (it usually looks like they..."

Lisa, can you point to a reliable source for this from KDP (just curious, not trying to be argumentative)? Everything I've heard from other authors has been the opposite (i.e., they count as they come in, not on release day).

I've also heard from more than a few authors who've had problems with the preorders (old drafts going live, new ones not being uploaded in time, etc.) that have negated what little benefit KDP preorders might offer.

I set up preorder for RftS, had the promotional website running, had a facebook page and tweeted like there was booze in the birdseed. I got a handful of orders.

I think preorder works best if you can combine it with some other publicity.

Ken wrote: "Lisa, can you point to a reliable source for this from KDP (just curious, not trying to be argumentative)? Everything I've heard from other authors has been the opposite (i.e., they count as they come in, not on release day)."

Preorder sales are counted as they come in, just like any other sale. I've had four books on preorder and they all had ranking changes on the day the sale posted to my KDP dashboard, not the release date.

Ken wrote: "Lisa, can you point to a reliable source for this from KDP ..."

Well, obviously, I'm not a reliable source, lol. I know I read somewhere that pre-orders count towards your first day sales, but obviously that has changed (or is different with KDP). I found the following on the KDP site:

Kindle Pre-order
Also, pre-orders will contribute toward sales rank and other Kindle Store merchandising even before your book is released, which can help more readers discover your book. ... Your pre-order sales data will not appear in other reports until after your book is delivered to customers on its release date.


I guess where I was getting confused is because all those pre-order sales don't show up on your sales dashboard until the release date.

Still, I think that pre-orders are a great way to get extra exposure for your book.

I actually did a pre-order this past week for my book haha. I did it less as a way to have it out there, but more of a way to set the date and not have to worry about releasing it on the date i said i was.
As for pre-orders, i got a few, not too bad i'd say for a first release. But i spent most the time doing advertisings and the sort.

I've also thought about it, but not done it so far. The answers here are informative, and I'll certainly give it a try for my current WIP as it's the third and final in a trilogy when it get closer to publication date. I feel encouraged and feel like I should at least give it a try...what have I got to lose? I just have to prepare for extra promotion - as well as final editing reviews, cover checks, and formatting! Yeah for the life of an indie writer - lol - learning new things keeps the brain active they say!

We haven't done a preorder yet, but I have watched a number of books in our genre that did preorders, and in the cases where the book was part of a series, the whole series showed a jump in rank, sometimes a sizable one. In our genre at least, pre-orders appear to be an especially good way to promote a series.

Great discussion with lots of interesting view points. My thought was to use a pre-order to help promote a second book in a series to those that had bought the first book.
Interesting idea to use the pre-order as a way to set a solid deadline for yourself.
Lots to think about! But the take away for me seems to be, do a pre-order, you have nothing to lose.

On KDP I've done pre-order a few times and personally found it to be a bigger hassle than its worth in the measly sales:

The main advantages:
1. Get your ASIN so you can get your book url.
2. Have a set date (But I do just fine pressuring myself into making my deadline. I add the date on my website, and in my newsletter in order to hold myself accountable to my readers.)

The biggest disadvantages in my mind:
1. Reviews cannot be submitted during a pre-order period, you have ask your ARC readers to submit their review on release day anyway.
2. You cannot modify your manuscript in the 10 day before release day. (That's a long time not to be able to make last minute changes or correct a mistake. And purchases made on release day will get that manuscript you submitted ten days ago—with that error.)
3. From everything I've read, release day ranking are skewed by pre-orders, and it effects 'also boughts.'
4. If you don't have a cover ready to submit with your pre-order your pre-order looks incomplete. This is a biggie for me. Say I submit an assetless pre-order 90 days in advance. My pre-order url is on Amazon for a long time without a cover. Fans of my previous titles may pre-order without a cover but promoting my book to find new readers (social media) seems pointless without a cover.

Ellison, I agree. For me, the disadvantages of KDP preorders far outweighed the very few advantages.

Other authors may find them more worthwhile.

Lisa wrote: "Kindle Pre-order
Also, pre-orders will contribute toward sales rank and other Kindle Store merchandising even before your book is released, which can help more readers discover your book. ... Your pre-order sales data will not appear in other reports until after your book is delivered to customers on its release date."

thanks, Lisa!

this is big; in fact, bigger than big!

Two of my writer friends who co-wrote a book are doing a reorder right now. I will report the results once it's released (May 11th).

Pre-orders are great because you can gather sales prior to your book's launch and I believe on iBooks you can get on both the regular top charts and the pre-order top charts, maxing out your exposure to potential readers.

I think pre-order definitely help in terms of book discovery. I am releasing my book on 6/17. I added it to Amazon last week and enabled pre-order. I do not see sales data, but I think orders are coming in based on the book's rank in specific categories like crime->kidnapping.

Ram wrote: "I think pre-order definitely help in terms of book discovery. I am releasing my book on 6/17. I added it to Amazon last week and enabled pre-order. I do not see sales data, but I think orders are c..."

There's a section on your KDP page that tracks your pre-orders.

J.D. wrote: "There's a section on your KDP page that tracks your pre-orders. "


Yes, there is a Pre-order report on the Reports page of your KDP account.

Do people often upload a pre-order without cover art? That seems strange to me.

Hello guys

Great discussion. I was toying with the idea of a pre-order and you have made my mind up. Tomorrow I will put a preorder for my second book on Kindle. Although it will be out on the 1st of June and apart from the odd typo I need to work through, will be complete.

I'll let you know how it goes.

All the best
Adrian