The Readers Review: Literature from 1714 to 1910 discussion

We have reached the penultimate week of our reading, and for those of you rooting for M. Paul as an interesting match for Lucy, their relationship is moving along.

What did you think of the events of the Fete? Why did Lucy withhold her gift, and why did M. Paul react the way he did? Did these actions change your opinion of either of them?

Next we see the love triangle of Dr John, Polly and Ginevra. Do you think Dr John/Graham has found his perfect match? What do you think will happen to Ginevra?

The remainder of this section is full of M. Paul's history and further information on his current circumstances, and more development in his and Lucy's relationship. Does this new information change your impression of him? Do you see any parallels between M. Paul/Lucy and the characters in Jane Eyre (please be sure to hide spoilers in case some of those reading with us have not yet read Jane Eyre)?

I look forward to reading your thoughts on this section!

The fete and its aftermath seem to be a turning point in the story. M.Paul assumed she was making the watchguard for someone else. She doesn't bring flowers to the fete like everyone else. He is disappointed and feels she doesn 't like him. I think that she doesn 't give him the watchguard at the fete because she doesn't want to be the center of attention. That British reserve again!
I do like his comment about flowers--they are more beautiful growing in the ground where they belong.

So most of these chapters deal with Lucy’s relationship with M. Paul. It seems obvious to me that he wants to marry Lucy, but Madame Beck and Pere Silas are against it. Pere Silas is probably only opposed for religious reasons – I’m sure if Lucy were Catholic he would like to see M. Paul happy in this life and wouldn’t expect him to stay faithful to his dead fiancée. Does Madame Beck object for the same reasons, or does she also think that Lucy is beneath him socially?

I don’t know if I could put up with M. Paul’s personality. But it seems Lucy can. And his students must love him for a reason. I don’t like the idea of him spying on people though.

Graham and Polly are in love. She doesn’t annoy me anymore and I hope they will be happy. They seem like a good match. I no longer think Graham is a good match for Lucy (I was never too convinced of it to begin with).

The nun obviously isn’t M. Paul. I still think it's De Hamal. Why is Ginevra gaining so much weight? I doubt Charlotte Bronte went there, so I’ll put it down to the tail end of puberty and all the sweets she eats.

Bronte shows us the differences between Ginevra and Polly, with Polly coming out on top. Ginevra is boisterous, big and greedy. Polly is petite, articulate and cultured. Lucy prefers Polly as a wife for Graham because she thinks they would make a good couole,
I have to admit that I think Ginevra, for all her faults, is a lot more fun. She really enjoys life.

I agree that Polly seems too much the perfect Victorian wife-always wanting to support and look after the men in her life. With a good partner who might help her mature into a more thoughtful young woman, Ginevra might turn out very well. In fact, I seem to recall Graham being something of a thoughtless, fun before everything youngster back in the beginning of the novel!

I also have found M Paul somewhat overbearing and controlling. Perhaps he too would soften if he were secure in Lucy's affections.

M. Paul is a single man with authority in a school for girls with mostly female teacher. Many of the women would be more than pleased to become Mme Emanuel. Perhaps arrogance is both caused by all the attention and also a way to fend off unwelcome attention, especially from the likes of Zelie St Pierre.

I agree with Rosemarie that the reason Lucy delays giving her present to M. Paul is that she doesn't want to be the center of attention for the whole room. I'm a little behind, and I've only finished a fraction of this week's reading. I think I have been slowed down by how off-putting I have found M. Paul.

Stick with it, Casceil. M. Paul improves with acquaintance.

Casceil wrote: "I think I have been slowed down by how off-putting I have found M. Paul. ..."

Why do you find him off-putting, Casceil?

As Frances said, he is over-bearing and controlling. I would go so far as to say domineering at times. I really disliked the way he tried to bully Lucy into agreeing to write an impromptu theme in French in front of all the parents. He is so opinionated. He thinks he is "taking care of" people, but he really wants to control other people, and he does not see anyone else's point of view. I think it is creepy the way he watches everyone from his high window.

I like him so far. Why? Honestly he's stood out as the only "real" character in the book. He is hot-blooded and exacting, but there is also a side to him that is understanding and compassionate. I can't believe I'm saying this but his relationship with Lucy reminds me a little of Rochester and Jane's in Jane Eyre. Rochester has numerous flaws but Jane learns to harness and re-direct them. Lucy seems to understand M. Paul and is attracted to his finer qualities. I'm under no delusions though that their relationship is going to end or even develop with a Jane-Eyre-ish motif to it though. :-Z

I'm not impressed with his spying on everyone either, and Mme Beck spies on everyone as well. Is Charlotte commenting on an aspect of the continental culture of which she disapproves?
On the other hand, M. Paul is one of the more developed characters in the novel. Most of the other supporting characters lack depth and substance.

Rosemarie wrote: "I'm not impressed with his spying on everyone either, and Mme Beck spies on everyone as well. Is Charlotte commenting on an aspect of the continental culture of which she disapproves? ..."

It's somewhat ironic as narratively, she's the one who is technically "spying" on everyone else. ;-)

I've read a few more chapters, and I have learned about M. Paul's past. It occurred to me that the word to describe him is "self-righteous," and that is a large part of what I dislike about him. He sets very high standards for himself and everyone else. He has little or no tolerance for the failings of others.

Good point, Cleo.

Casceil wrote: "He sets very high standards for himself and everyone else. He has little or no tolerance for the failings of others. ..."

And for me, that's Lucy described to a "T"!

I think M. Paul's faults are part of what makes him an interesting character. Lucy is very aware of his irritability and his overbearing nature. At the same time she's amused by his childish artlessness, eg when he realises the chain that she's made is for him, and is openly pleased.

Above all, he forces her to come out of her self-built shell. I don't see any reason why he should be perfect: who is, after all, outside of a book?

I usually find the "perfect" characters more annoying. I like Ginevra, for all her faults, better than Miss Polly, or as she is known now, Paulina Mary.

Doctor John asks Lucy for her candid (my word, not his) opinions of Paulina nee Polly and Ginevra nee Miss Fanshaw, several times, and does not get them. He has shared openly with Lucy his feelings; to my way of thinking, it does not speak well of her that she cannot do the same.

I do not understand the motivation to bury the 5 letters rather than just destroy them. Is it as simple as wanting a safe place, as she states, or does she want to hold on to them because she is not convinced that her chances with the doctor are gone? Or? Whatever the opposite of "agency" is, Lucy lacks agency.

As to M. Paul, is the offer of the role of sister sincere or is it his way of avoiding more direct courtship, which he has told Lucy makes him extremely nervous? Platonic relationships have a long history but it would dismay me if this is the best they can achieve.

Is the examination in this section or the next one?

I think Lucy buries the letters as a symbolic gesture. She is burying the past. Every time she sees the tree, she will refect on the fact that that part of her life is over.
Doctor John probably consults Lucy because she knows both the girls, he doesn't have a romantic attachment to Lucy, and her role as a teacher indicates a certain amount of intelligence and awareness of human nature.
The exam is in Chapter 30.

Why does Lucy not attempt to do as well as she is able on the examination? If she is beginning to like M. Paul (and she is), wouldn't she endeavor to do her best? Lucy's characteristic unwillingness to exert herself (except for her bold move to Villette) is disappointing. As her lack of effort obviously is to M. Paul.

Memo to self: Keep an eye out for a copy of the Oxford edition of Villette with translations and annotations. I must be missing so much.

The copy I got from the library was a signet classic paperback with the translations at the back of the book. I know Signet is an American publishing company.

Ah. I might have more luck finding that edition. Thanks, Rosemarie.

[several minutes later]

Found it on kindle and used in paper and hardback. I've downloaded the sample,

Jon wrote: "Doctor John asks Lucy for her candid (my word, not his) opinions of Paulina nee Polly and Ginevra nee Miss Fanshaw, several times, and does not get them. He has shared openly with Lucy his feelings..."

My impression was that Lucy was being discreet, and did not want to talk about people behind their backs.

Lucy is very observant but keeps most of what she sees to herself. She is, after all, generally a very reserved person, and as Casceil noted, it isn't polite to talk about others.Lucy is a very "proper" person.
I think that her flight to Villette was a act of desperation. She really didn't have anything to lose. Now that she has a position in society, if only in a modest manner, she can pay attention to the niceties of polite behaviour.

Jon wrote: "Is the examination in this section or the next one?..."

In my edition Lucy discusses the examination to come in Chapter 30, but it actually happens in chapter 35.

She seems to be convinced that she will fail because the exam involves public speaking and impromptu thinking, which she is not good at: her creative impulse does not work to order, but is the "most intractable, the most capricious, the most maddening of masters." Rather like M.Paul, in fact.

Thank you for correcting the info about the exam. I returned the book to the library and my notes are somewhat cryptic-- just enough so that I don't give away details about the plot.

Rosemarie wrote: "I usually find the "perfect" characters more annoying. I like Ginevra, for all her faults, better than Miss Polly, or as she is known now, Paulina Mary."

I'm reading Louise de la Valliere by Alexandre Dumas right now, and I've just about had it with Louise for about the same reason. "Perfect" personality, plus so much fainting! (Although there are a lot of mean-spirited characters, many of them royal, who need a slap in the face too. Whenever I read historical novels, I always thank God I wasn't created royal, or from any important family really, so that I could choose my own husband and live my life the way I please.)
Anyways, Louise and her friend Aure de Montalais made me think of Paulina and Ginevra.