THE Group for Authors! discussion

Absolutely anyone asking for pay to remove or add any ratings needs to be reported to goodreads staff. If messaged here can flag it, forward it if contacted by email, share the link, screenshot, scan, whatever -- but get that extortion scam to staff attention.

Don't pay it; the worst that happens is your average star rating drops. Not every potential reader pays attention to star ratings without a text review. And one one-star rating from one criminal will fade out as you get more reviews and ratings. Maybe lead them on a bit to get more details you can report them for -- but don't pay.

That's not something goodreads allows -- even if extortion of that wasn't illegal. Everyone who got an account here agreed to no commercial use. It's not even a question of temporary or permanent; make staff aware of that and if their investigation agrees, the ratings and accounts will be removed.

The one star ratings original post mentioned -- no idea if suspicious or not. If trying to extort money from anyone = forward that to goodreads. If someone mass one starring because that's what they wanted to do = not suspicious just because of the quantity; readers can catalog books however they wish.

Authors will not see those one star ratings on their sales pages -- goodreads doesn't echo ratings to Amazon or other bookstores. As Faith said, goodreads isn't a retail site so you have no sales page here -- just book data in the library/catalog. Goodreads just doesn't permit commercial use or commercial reviews (exception being reviews paid solely by a free review book disclosed in compliance with federal law).

Report anything questionable or suspicious to staff -- just a star rating by itself or a certain number of them with no other cause for suspicion not likely to get you anywhere. Extorting money for star ratings -- that needs reporting.

ETA: I'm not touching that "no good person" comment. If that's anyone's moral compass (starring a product for sale to general public = bad or good person) ...

And that is why I'm not using NetGalley anymore and am cautious accepting ARCs. I remember being exhausted. It's seems that there is no way to please an author (it shouldn't be about that to begin with). You get an ARC in exchange for a honest opinion, then you give your honest opinion and if God forbid your honest opinion is fallowed by a 1 star rating, you get a nasty PM from the author saying that your honest opinion is wrong and not appreciated. Soon, reading stops being pleasure and starts feeling like a job you hate. That's why I stopped. From now on I only read for pleasure and review how ever I want, for myself and my friends, with no obligations to anyone.

Goodreads is not your damn sales page.

Miss M wrote: "Goodreads is not your damn sales page."

Particularly well put.

Parker wrote: "No but Amazon and eBay are sales pages. The extortion attempt weren't on Goodreads. Sorry for the confusion. I'll try to see if I can edit my..."

Definitely let Amazon and eBay site support know about that. And you might want to consider checking into filing FTC complaint on the reviewer wanting money for removing their negative consumer review.

Do Amazon and eBay even allow ratings without a text review?

[That was actually the topic of this thread (a new member immediately cataloging books and starring books in an amount suspicious to an author presumably unfamiliar with goodreads who also found it suspicious there was no explanatory review and presumably felt the new member meant the star to be negative).]

Parker wrote: "Everyone can do as they please. My racist hater neighbor can do as he pleases, and he gets the same vote as the neighbor who is a genuine human being capable of empathy. But, by God, I'm still gonn..."

So you had a bad experience, and you think that gives you an excuse to accuse all people who dare to rate books (in some number you deem excessive) with a number of stars which you deem insufficient of being " haters". Sorry, but I don't agree with you.

You don't have to agree with me. And I don't have to agree with you. If someone is determined to do harm and pretend it's done out of ignorance, then yeah. I know what they're about. I didn't accuse "all people" of anything. I acknowledged someone's experience of being bullied & extorted. They're not alone. It happens. It probably happens a lot but people are afraid to speak out because of the pile on. In fact, I've just deleted my bit, because I don't need the pile on either.

Please don't undermine bully prevention efforts and demean those who have been targeted by bullies by equating a very specific pattern of harassment to an unknown customer rating a commercial product. Products are not victims, only people.

Only bullying is bullying. Yes, if someone is being bullied on or offline that bully will attack them everywhere possible including on goodreads -- if that's why a star rating is suspicious (your bully was behind it), let goodreads staff know.

I know, I know, I know, you can drum up more sympathy and drama and attention screaming " bully" than other phrases and talk of money -- but it's a horrible thing to do. Complain about extortion, that's justified, but don't scream "bully" over anything that's wrong. Good grief, every bit of sympathy I had for you being reputedly being extorted over eBay and Amazon just disappeared -- but I still don't wish you to be bullied or for the extortionists to get by with anything.

Stop attacking bully victims, readers, customers and potential customers; instead go properly report the extortionists for abuse and illegal activities. Goodreads cannot help you with issues on other sites--report them on those other sites and please stop insulting us and bully victims.

I'm sorry you have a racist hater neighbor but unless you suspect they are behind the ratings this thread is talking about or other content/activity on goodreads, goodreads cannot help. Hate speech and personal attacks are against goodreads TOS so if that racist hater neighbor is on goodreads, flag any of their inappropriate content or activities to goodreads staff.

Having a racist neighbor I suppose is as nice a red herring away from how mass star ratings from a new account are not against site policy or suspicious to many goodreads members. As good for drama and sympathy as crying "bully." But hardly anything to do with one starring a book unless that neighbor was doing the one starring as a personal attack.

(Gee, wonder what other drama and sympathy ploys are going to come out next -- are star ratings on books also responsible for ??? and made by the truly heinous ??? )

Is this thread even remotely the same topic -- a certain number of reviewless star ratings from new account not mentioned as contacting rated books' authors -- any more? Isn't it sufficient that staff said to let contact them with suspicious activity?

(I'm flouncing off now because equating bullying of people with not liking a book makes me see red -- but I do hope no one serious equates a single reviewless rating on their commercial product with no other contact from a random internet stranger = unethical, proof of extortion, hater, hate speech, bullying or racism ...nice try though. Successful derailment of thread, of insulting everyone posting here, I guess -- but not exactly helpful to getting your issues in other sites resolved or gaining our sympathy or convincing us that one starring a product is evil, criminal extortion, racist, bullying ...)

Parker wrote: "...If someone is determined to do harm and pretend it's done out of ignorance, then yeah. I know what they're about. "

Kind of like authors who rate their own books 5-stars. Maybe it's done out of ignorance of how GR works and they don't know that it is frowned upon by readers.

Or maybe it is done to artificially inflate their statistics and deceive readers into thinking the book is more popular/better rated than it really is.

You can't just look at the rating and assign a motivation.

Cynthia wrote: "I find that suspicious, almost like the member is angry about something but not saying why. I received one of those one-star ratings and wish Goodreads would require a brief review in such a case s..."

When I first joined GR ages ago the first thing I did was catalog all my books here, those I own and as many as I could remember that I'd read but didn't own. Hundreds of ratings.

That's not atypical.

Additionally GR users are not required to explain any rating. We're free to rate books as we please with no explanation.

However, if you find it suspicious report it to GR and let them check into it.

"I received one of those one-star ratings and wish Goodreads would require a brief review in such a case so that the author can learn what is so unlikeable/offensive about the book."

Frankly, it's none of your business. Readers have no obligation to try to teach an author "what is so unlikable/offensive". If readers choose to rate with no comments that's their business.

Luna wrote: "I find it troubling that a reader would join 6 days ago and blanket GR authors with one star reviews. I agree, in any case, there should be an explanation in the review of what they didn't like. I ..."

No one blanketed authors with anything - they're BOOK ratings.

Mike wrote: "I do agree with Luna in that if I thought a book was only worth a single star, I wouldn't review it (unless there were some specific reason for doing so)."

That's your choice, however readers who ARE willing to do so help other READERS, and so I am thankful for those who are willing to post negative ratings and/or reviews.

Parker wrote: "Alas, bullies don't change, and arguing with bullies is not going to help anything, so I'm outta here... "

Not only are you conflating two completely different issues (how readers chose to catalogue books vs bullying) you have also just called everyone here who doesn't agree with you, a bully. That speaks volumes about you as an author that you cannot wrap your head around how readers use Goodreads and so stoop to calling everyone else a name.

It staggers me the number of authors in this thread who don't understand how Goodreads works. They see it simply as a sales platform. Authors complain but don't understand about importing, or cataloguing, or how different users will utilise the star rating in different ways. It's not about you, it's about how readers chose to use the database.

And, yet again, we have authors complaining about 1-star ratings with no reviews but how many of them have said anything about the 5-star ratings on their books with no review? Interesting to note how many authors complaining insist on 5-starring their own books to inflate their ratings.

Folks, can we lower the temperature a little please? It's all getting a little too heated.

Goodreads is a site for both authors and readers. That means that authors and readers need to find a way of getting along with each other, and not slinging mud. Or other things.

On the whole, a reader's review is their property. In the vast majority of cases, we authors shouldn't try to quibble with reviews, whether they are good or bad. That's the Author's Big Mistake. The usual advice is - never, ever, reply to a bad review.

But that isn't what this thread is about. This thread is about unusual reviewing patterns which may or may not be a sign of someone trying to abuse the system. We do occasionally see people joining GR and then spraying around a ton of 1 star reviews. There are examples of readers copying other people's reviews. People giving one star reviews as a form of attack or an attempt at extortion. It's rare, but it does happen.

So this thread is a place to debate the question - when something unusual happens with reviews, should we follow the usual practice of doing nothing or should we report it?

It's a legitimate question. I must admit that I am in two minds about it. My usual practice is to leave my reviews well alone, but I can also see that there are circumstances when I might ask GR to take a look at something unusual.

This is not about authors not understanding how GR works. It is not about people complaining about one star reviews but being happy to take five star reviews. It is not about disputing every one star review or calling all readers bullies.

Pause. Calm. Deep breaths. Try to see the argument from the other person's perspective. It might not look quite as objectionable as you thought.

Marie wrote: "Hmm, I remember a thread on here about a gr member appearing one day and one-starring books, then messaging the authors that they should pay 15 bucks to this person to remove the one-star. Silly st..."

If a book stinks and deserves 1 star then so be it, but if anyone is crushing an aspiring author in the hopes that they will pay them just to remove the rating, that should equate to a lifetime ban from GR. Indie authors are so behind the 8-ball just to begin with after putting up hundreds of dollars just to pay the costs for cover art, printed books, editing, not to mention the countless hours spent in writing the novel, etc.

As an author, we spend way too much of our free time trying desperately to create something that will appeal to and put a smile on people's faces. It is disturbing and disgusting to think that a piece of slime would give out low ratings because they know how damaging it might be to someone who put countless hours sitting at their desk typing away from behind a keyboard.

There is value in every form of positive literature. Although it might not always appeal to all, remember that it is the effort put forth that sometimes equates to a greater whole.

Paul wrote: "I also believe that GR should force people to at least leave a comment as to why they rated a book the way they did. ..."

I cannot agree. As several others have mentioned in this thread, Goodreads is about the readers, not the authors. It is - and should be - as easy as possible for readers to document their reading experience.

Also, in the three years I have been a member, I've only had to flag one member - and that was someone spamming authors. Goodreads jumped on it, and within 12 hours the perpetrator was banned. So I don't really think there is a high incidence of unchecked abuse.

Someone from GR staff should close this thread already. Good god, the entitlement of some authors. I yet to read a thread where this matter is discussed in a civil way, without someone crying "bully".

La-Lionne wrote: "Someone from GR staff should close this thread already. Good god, the entitlement of some authors. I yet to read a thread where this matter is discussed in a civil way, without someone crying "bully"."

I agree. Close it. The drama was started by an off-topic post which was later edited, but the posts increasingly sound like one of the tear-jerkier episodes of bad reality tv.

Plus, the post about extortion to remove one stars was talking about on Amazon and eBay -- which goodreads can do nothing about short of possibly emailing amazon and eBay that someone at link xyz was saying that.

I can imagine that that and all kinds of scams are going on and are targeting authors -- doesn't mean goodreads is allowing it once discovered/flagged/reported. And has nothing to do with topic of discussion -- i.e., isn't it suspicious that a newbie to goodreads would immediately catalog books in quantity?

As to forcing readers to do anything -- sheesh. Customers, customers, customers. Consumer speech. What are you trying to do asking that your customers and potential customers (consumers rating/reviewing here) should be forced to do anything other than follow site policies and not engage in illegal activities like book piracy (respect copyrights) -- are you trying to drive off actual readers to replace with commercial and sockpuppet reviews that will no longer get you readers (but would initially fill review quotas needed to buy promotion space elsewhere until those sites catch on or goodreads remove)? Deceptive trade practice and attempt to suppress consumer opinion?

And not completely on topic for this thread but topical because of recent blowups* around the blogosphere: "Flag" a review on goodreads just means you are reporting it to goodreads staff who will then determine if violates site policies. It's not a down vote like on amazon where a massive campaign will effectively hide the review. It can and should be used to report suspicious activity (and if no flag option send details to staff via cntact form or email) -- but it doesn't do anything other than report it to staff who then will take appropriate action regardless of how many " voted by flagging."

*ETA: "recent blowups" over some author campaigns to go flag reviews on goodreads -- still flags to staff attention whether 1, 7, 500 or 50,000 flags and frankly past a certain number of flags I'd expect goodreads to start ignoring them or even writing an autorespjnder to say something along the lines of "already investigated and review was deemed in/out of policy"

E.G. wrote:

I cannot agree. As several others have mentioned in this thre..."

I stand corrected, and was only trying to state that it is very important that an author understand why the target audience either liked or disliked their work. GR does a great job of bringing both readers and authors together and does its best to strongly recommend that feedback is left.

E.G. your comments were correct and accurate and I have removed that section of my post.

Gee, the comment about "forcing readers to explain ratings" ' cause how else can authors improve remark got edited -- sure makes my above comment sound even stupider than the notion that readers should be forced to tell authors how to improve an already published book ...

Come on, guys, if something is suspicious , attacking, malicious, fake, illegal, extorting or whatever -- flag it to goodreads. If you want to participate in this book community, please do help by flagging and reporting suspicious things for everyone's sake. That shouldn't even be a question or open for discussion -- see something, let goodreads know.

But, you don't get to force your customers do anything here on goodreads. And it's actually quite possible that putting a star rating on a book is putting a star rating on a book.

ETA: Not necessarily being a slimeball, jealous hater troll, racist hater, bully, extortionist.. maybe just a reader using the star ratings and managing their books on goodreads to suit themselves. I must say, I am sure getting an education in what some authors idea of customer service is -- mind boggling.

Paul wrote: "...that it is very important that an author understand why the target audience either liked or disliked their work...."

"Target audience" is for marketing, marketing focus groups, polls and beta readers. Once you publish, you just have customers or potential customers who do not have to do anything, much less consider the author's needs. Pesky thing about voluntary consumer versus paid/professional/commercial reviewers -- no one has to do anything or provide any feedback useful to the author so long as staying within site policies.

Way more likely readers are on goodreads for their book activities than to be your marketing targets.

And what about Tamora Pierce's profile saying "...Hey, folks! I just discovered that apparently I have given some very popular books single-star ratings--except I haven't. How do I know I haven't? Because I haven't read those books at all. So before you go getting all hacked off at me for trashing your favorites, know that I've written GoodReads to find out what's going..."

Does the fact that she's an author mitigate, save her from being called slimeball, bully, extortionist, etc.?

[Oddly, the bug I have with star ratings is getting random ★★☆☆☆ one's added to my "read" shelf so often I've stopped using the default "read" shelf so I can clean up after them.]

No, I don't think the thread needs to be closed. We just need to stop either reader-bashing or author-bashing. There's a happy medium in there if you look for it.

This is a difficult subject with many viewpoints so the discussion can get heated. However, even when voicing opposing opinions, I would like to gently remind everyone to be respectful and considerate towards each other.

As this discussion has moved off topic from the original post, I will be closing this thread. If you wish to continue the conversation, you're welcome to start a new thread. However, please email support (at) goodreads (dot) com instead if you have a specific complaint about a rating or user.