World, Writing, Wealth discussion

That there are dozens (hundreds?) of thousands (millions?) of authors is not a news, however discovering more and more bloggers, consultants, book-promoting sites, etc sometimes surprises me anew. All those sites, platforms, designers, agents, consultants, all is cool, but do they make money or most just hang there? Received yesterday an e-mail from AuthorRise that regretfully they'd be closing their doors from April 15.
I mean 'books' is a billions dollar business/industry, however it looks like the 'sharks' earning them are few, while 'pilot fish' are disproportionately numerous.
What do you think?

heh heh.

it doesn't take a lot of money to put up a blog, self-publish a book, or even better advertise yourself as a social media consultant to help market the ailing writer who just want to write. most of these people are just feeling things out or not interested in growing it into a full-time business.

I'm about 40% thru Hyatt's Platform: Get Noticed in a Noisy World and although it's mostly targeted at blogging, it has quite a bit of cross-over to marketing books. one of the key takeaways in the context of this question is that the market is increasingly crowded, so you need excellent packaging.

companies like AuthorRise are just internet startups, so i wouldn't take their success or lack thereof as a bellwether of the health of the book publishing business but rather as the internet entrepreneurial economic sector as a whole.

Alex G wrote: "one of the key takeaways in the context of this question is that the market is increasingly crowded, so you need excellent packaging.

companies like AuthorRise are just internet startups, so i wouldn't take their success or lack thereof as a bellwether of the health of the book publishing business but rather as the internet entrepreneurial economic sector as a whole...."

Yeah, that's true... My only concern is that many live the illusion that if you persevere, do this or that, you'll 'succeed' in it eventually, which is far from being guaranteed, no matter what you do...
I see my mission, as opposed to some other groups, to offer realistic disillusionment (to myself including) rather than optimistic support implying false or unlikely hopes -:)

Nik wrote: "many live the illusion that if you persevere, do this or that, you'll 'succeed' in it eventually, which is far from being guaranteed, no matter what you do... I see my mission, as opposed to some other groups, to offer realistic disillusionment (to myself including) rather than optimistic support implying false or unlikely hopes -:) "

you are right. i'm glad that you're no pollyanna.

however, if you're fortunate to be born under the right circumstances, then you stand a good chance of having a decent quality of life, a family, friends, a regular job that provides a place to live and food on the table--which is, i think, what most people want.

on the other hand, if you want to make it in the art/entertainment or any other entrepreneurial business, then the risk is quite a bit higher.

Alex G wrote: "you are right. i'm glad that you're no pollyanna...."

-:)
I'm for hedging risks and generally against putting all the eggs into one basket. I mean I'd rather not take a loan from the bank and quit job, until my art can sustain me.
I'd say even art/entertainment is riskier than entrepreneurial business in general.... One can and should make a business plan re most businesses, knowing that it's just a prognosis, and even banks look at it, while with writing I'd be cautious in putting anything into a "projected income" line and cash flow -:)

Nik wrote: "Alex G wrote: "you are right. i'm glad that you're no pollyanna...."

-:)
I'm for hedging risks and generally against putting all the eggs into one basket. I mean I'd rather not take a loan from th..."

I am with Alex. I have always tried to keep as many options open as possible. relying on writing is a loser's fate most of the time. Just because a few get rich, I think I would prefer to wait until I was one of the few before I relied on it. No immediate sign of success in being one off the few either :-(

The money in writing might be in authoring books with titles like "10 Things You Absolutely Must Know To Make Money In Writing", yours for the low low price of $20.

Who knows? :)

It would be great to make money someday. I'm still hoping to break even. It is a tough gig, but I am having a fun time so far.

Welcome to the group, Marie. Like generally in writing we discuss making money here but don't offer too many revenues, hopefully - a bit of fun...-:)
I think as long as you look at writing as a hobby that you enjoy, then there shouldn't be any problem at all, since you rarely expect making money from hobbies... While expecting to make money and not making it can be quite frustrating...

My advice is, if you expect to make a lot of money, find some other activity. If you enjoy it, stick with it. You may well make SOME money. A very few make a lot, but by far the bulk apparently lose money. My advice is keep a good control of costs, make rational spending decisions and persist. For what it is worth, I make a modest profit and I enjoy myself, so I persist.

here is an example of a successful writing business:

http://whatever.scalzi.com/about/inte...

(John Scalzi is a well-known sci-fi writer who was past president of SFWA and recently got a contract w/Tor Books for $3.4M/13 books/10yrs.)

a few items worthy of note:

* $2/word is his base rate for writing anything
* he only reads ARCs and does blurbs for works that are published by a 3rd-party; that is, not self-published works

here's his advice:

http://crafttheshow.com/?p=1391

one item that is very worthy of note:

* he researches the market--which is a part of what Nik mentioned as a business plan

Ian wrote: "My advice is keep a good control of costs, make rational spending decisions and persist."

which scalzi's article implies.

here's another article worthy of reading b/c it says a Tor publisher says that you don't want to have a lot of backstory in order to be sellable:

http://www.tor.com/2015/05/24/tor-boo...

Some interesting stuff, Alex. This Scalzi dude is all business indeed and what can I say? I can applaud his success and talent and if my cousin (who's an authority for me in sci-fi & fantasy area ever since my childhood) says he's good, I might read his books -:)

Got this on my Twitter feed a minutes ago. The author gives some good numbers to show what the magnitude of a successful marketing campaign is like:

"I...pitched 200 book bloggers...gave out hundreds of free copies in exchange for reviews"

Not a few free copies, not even 50 but 100s!

http://canadaam.ctvnews.ca/mobile/am-...

(Btw, You can get a lot of good info in terms of links & their writing process from writers on Twitter.)

The money for writing is in ransom notes.

When i mean writers on Twitter, I mean somewhat economically successful & somewhat award-winning writers. & they are willing to share their insights.

Kevin, you might be right! Seriously.

Alex, thanks for bringing Melissa's interview.
Generally and from what she says, it's clear that you need to put a lot of efforts into promotion, reaching influencers, and maybe money on promos and ads, but nothing's guaranteed. You can still end up with 10 books, 20 years of time and barely any sales ... On the other hand, anyone has a certain (not big) chance to fare decently even with a single book and single/minimal jumpstart.
I'd stress two factors: first, is your initial impact/launch on Amazon, the first couple of days may be important to gain momentum. If your overall presentation (and other factors, like correct genre and even like what time your book goes live on Amazon, so it's business time in the US) is appealing enough to sell even 10-20 copies the first day it might give a momentum and high rating to enjoy for a certain period of time. The second - whether the content is good enough for people to recommend it further...

It would be rude not to offer new members to share some insight, so I'm reviving this thread -:)

Ghost writing... I have clients that have hired ghost-writers. They can make bank. Learn to write in voice other than your own.

During the 1849 gold rush, it wasnt the miners that made money, it was the people supplying the miners with pick-axes, shovels and wheelbarrows. Levi Strauss is still around and selling jeans. Not too many people making money off of gold from Sutter's Mill.

I suspect what Michael is hinting at is that the real money is being made by by those selling "services" to indie writers. It is true that cover design is a useful service of which I am happy to use, but there are many others, such as paid advertising, which, by and large, seldom give a positive return on investment. Unlike those selling pick-axes in the gold fields, where a miner could quickly decide whether the object was worth purchasing, these services have no such means of assessing them from the outside. We need something like "Preditors and editors" to assess such services.

Not so much indies, but celebs. Think about the advances that they get, a large chunk of that goes to the ghostwriter.

Get into that circle and you're cashing checks.

When I told my father (a half century ago) I wanted to write novels, he told me that as an author I probably wouldn't make enough to support myself -- ever. He suggested that, instead, I pursue a career in journalism where I could write and get paid for writing.
That's what I did, and had a fabulous life writing news stories, magazine features etc etc. I also learned how to write. And, back in the 80s I was earning a six-figure salary.
When I was financially stable enough, I did write two novels which were traditionally published. I am happy that I did not have to rely on my author earnings to support the lifestyle to which I had become accustomed at the time.
Subsequently, I was paid handsomely for writing in my job as an attorney.
So, yes , there is money in writing. Plenty of it. Just not in writing fiction.

I agree, Joanna. Some few people can make a good living from writing fiction. My friend Anna Jacobs is one. But, by and large, nonfiction is better if you want to get money for words.
My first book was on how to build a house with your own hands, and it struck a chord at the time. It went through 4 editions, and sold hundreds of thousands of copies. But my novels only sell a trickle.
:)

Ok, now we seem to be talking biz. So ghosting, journalism, non-fic sound may be less artistic and adventurous, but far more practical for moneymaking...
Bob, well done on the construction guide -:)

As I see over the net, it looks like most of the money goes to Romances or Erotica. I don't like either one, so I guess, I'll never make a lot of money at my writing.

GR wrote: "As I see over the net, it looks like most of the money goes to Romances or Erotica. I don't like either one, so I guess, I'll never make a lot of money at my writing."

yes and no. even if you write in those genres, you still have thousands of other authors to compete with for the readers' attention. your success or lack thereof is dependent on how much effort you put into getting the attention of would be readers.

As has bee noted may times, first you have to be found, then what you write must strike home. If your story is no different from thousands of others, why do you expect to stand out?

When it comes down to nuts and bolts, it takes a good Marketing Man. I worked for a marketing company (before I started writing), and I've seen a lot trash make it big because of marketing--think of Pet-Rock. I doesn't matter how good or bad you are, it's all in the marketing strategy.

To a degree it might be true. If I look at our air con market, for example, I see that the least recommended by the technicians brand is most heavily campaigning and holding the biggest share of the market. Not sure it's the same with books, but the marketing still works...

Is the money in writing or in a satellite biz?

Now you have authorpreneurs like Joanna Penn who is very succesful at what she does, and that is writes blogs and books , and partners with experts to bring courses about self-publishing to other writers. She also self-publishes her own novels. But I don't know where she makes more money?

Joanna wrote: "But I don't know where she makes more money?"

I'm only guessing, but I don't think it's in book sales.

Acupuncture of The Mind