Review Group discussion

In the US, Creative Fiction standards include strictures against

1. Wordiness, jargon, or clichés
2. Adverb use in general
3. Adjectives adding hype
4. Auxiliary verb use, especially 'was'.
5. Passive voice

I limit myself for brevity but these are the major ones. Can any non-American author let me know how applicable, if at all, these standards may be in your respective countries or ones that Americans do not consider?

Since I am now exposed to reviewing works by non-American authors, I very much want to prevent an American-centric bias from creeping into my reviews.

I would also welcome any comment, insight, or question on the five categories I listed.

You are indeed showing an american bias for assuming points of good written English, are 'american'.

That I recognized the assumption as biased is the point of my topic. How your comment helps eliminate it, escapes me.

I was hoping that my comment would make you think that considering Americans would have different (and superior) standards from any other English speakers, was biased and distinctly ethnocentric.
Personally, I found the comment a little offensive, then again, us English can be somewhat protective over 'our' language.

Detailing the differences between British and American English goes beyond this discussion but since I never attended a British school any assumption I would have made about stylistic differences would have been exactly that, an assumption.

That you somehow inferred a notion of superiority in my posting suggests that your protectiveness is overly so.

The items you mentioned are points of good writing, in any country.
I didn't attend an american school, but I still assumed they teach excellent writing skills at higher levels of education as they do in other parts of the world.

Emma wrote: "The items you mentioned are points of good writing, in any country."

That is exactly where the discussion should have begun. Thank you for permitting me to move forward on a point of fact and not an assumption.

I sincerely appreciate it.

Rafael, I wonder if there are any major differences; I am both an Englishman and an editor and happen to work in the States, and I think we look for the same things.

There are some technical things that US readers sometimes assume are wrong, but are actually just different. We don't always make a big distinction between 'which' and 'that', for example, and some words will have a double letter in places ('funelled' instead of 'funeled', for example). Even as an editor, I quite often have to check which usage is correct, where. So it's good not to assume something you see is wrong.

But in general terms, I reckon we'd agree with your list.

In my opinion, authors from different countries and cultures speak with a different voice. I have seen some American authors criticize authors from other countries for using different spelling, punctuation, or styles. I know that I would prefer to read something that has an authentic voice than something strictly adheres to the latest popular rules.

I know that my opinion is extremely unpopular and unwelcome on Goodreads, especially in certain genres, so others may disagree.

I don't think your opinion is unpopular, it just shows you acknowledge that there is more than one correct way to do things.
However, minor matters of grammar, spelling and usage were not in Rafael's original list, which contained examples of poor or lazy writing. These, as far as I know, are universal.

Thank you, Mike, for your response and thoughtful insights.

I too thought there should not be major differences but when I saw these fundamental standards persistently ignored, I felt compelled to take the extra step and ensure I did not give a fellow author an unfair evaluation.

Your position as an Englishman working in the states makes you uniquely qualified to clear my conscience. :-)

Thank you, Mike !!

Hi all,

I'm recovering the worst case of the flu - so I'm a little late to the party.

a. I think Rafael's use of ' US, Creative Fiction standards ' was intended as a disclaimer. He's coming at this from a limited point of view.

b. ah, Rafael? 'excessive adverbs'? Could you define 'excessive' and why?
*Group members: R and I have been down this path. R's style is very different from mine and he's not a fan of my usage*

@ Mike - I 'reckon' you're brilliant. LOL.

@Ub - I deliberately mix British and US spelling in my books because I'm not creative enough to come up with another language (e.g., Klingon) but I want my readers to remain aware that that my novels take place in a galaxy 'not here.'

EG, I note your, as usual, incisive question. Right now I have a massive Seleucid army bearing down on my Parthian settlement so I'll be tied up for a bit.

I did, however, also raise an eyebrow at Mike's use of 'reckon' but didn't want to say anything. Clearly, he's in the process of being sucked into the dark side and we'll be the better for it. ;-)

I shall return.

Rafael wrote: "a massive Seleucid army bearing down on my Parthian settlement so I'll be tied up for a bit...."

Good luck. At the moment, I'm continuing my fight against massive nasal congestion and overindulging in silly tv.

It all depends on which standards you're using. in the US, there are various 'creative standards' in use for novel writing. It depends on who you ask as well. Every publisher has their own particular stylesheet.

For example, my house style uses Gregg.
Others will use Chicago Manual or Elements of Style by Strunk and White. Rarely you have anyone use Follett (Modern American Usage) but that exists...


In the UK, there's Oxford, Fowler, and New Hart.

Then there's various other styles in use for Canada, Australia and wherever else where English is used. Then you have other countries and their style. For example, Japanese novels translated in English will sound 'off' since they have their own style of how things work.

Don't get too wrapped up in finding a 'common' style. There isn't any. Pick your style you're comfortable with and stick to that.

Why, EG. Did I use the word 'excessive'? :-) Nonetheless, I appreciate, as always, the question's thrust.

I will shrug at the first instance of 'smiled cheerily', sigh at the next instance of 'clanged loudly', grumble when I come across 'stuttered haltingly', and decide enough is enough at encountering, 'me personally'. So four by my count, though please note adverbs in dialogue do not count. It is the way people talk.

To close permit me a bit of context. Stephen King, who once turned literary heads by declaring, "The road to hell is paved with adverbs.", has sold 300 million books. J.K. Rowling, who raised literary eyebrows by slathering them throughout her Harry Potter series, has sold 350 million. I will let the discerning writer decide which camp they wish to join.