Our Shared Shelf discussion

Ugh! I guess I just need a place to vent but it drives me crazy how some people are. So was at the college today, waiting in the hall for my class with my best friend, when another friend of hers who I don't see that much but she spends a lot of time with when we are not together came and joined us. now I know the girl well enough, and she is usually pretty decent to hang out with, but I have the same issues with her I face with my best friend in that they are both from a VERY conservative Christian church and family. My best friend and I go way back so she I am pretty sure she knows we don't agree on everything so we usually just avoid topics like that. But the comment from the other girl just really rankled me. We were just talking about college and majors and how my career choice might not see very lucrative to many, but I am more interested in doing something that makes me happy than choosing something for money when she made the comment. Essentially it was, "That It didn't matter for me whether I made a lot of money because the man is the provider." This made me so angry because she didn't even seem to realize that she had made such a broad sweeping statement and was being extremely presumptuous. In one sentence she had assumed so many things wrongly about me, my capability to support myself without a husband, that it was unthinkable that I might desire to be the primary provider, (I actually do desire this), and even my sexuality! (I AM interested in men but assuming that I would end up with a man by default would have certainly been offensive to someone else if they had no interest in a man as a future partner.) To make matters worse this comment just came off of another one she had made the last time I saw her less than a week ago when she declared that "the best jobs for women are teachers and nurses because that's what we're made for." ie to be caregivers. She amended this somewhat by saying she didn't mean that women couldn't do other things but could tell that she thought these were not as desirable. What's hilarious is she's a complete contradiction to her own ideas because she is considering other avenues herself! I just hate it when people make assumptions about me or another person based on gender strereotypes from prehistoric times. I didn't say anything because I didn't want to be rude and my best friend was there, but I wish I had now because now it looks like I agreed with her when nothing could be farther from the truth. I just wish other people could just let others live their lives without judgement. Sigh.

Hannah, I'm so sorry that you had such a nice time (sarcasm) today. I would pretend I am surprised by the fact that modern girls would still make such blanket statements nowadays...but I'm not, actually, so yeah.

If it helps you feel any better, I totally understand how you just shit up, partially because of your friend, because I would have reacted like that, too, most likely. Moreover, I'm not sure that the best thing to do would be to reply. Now I know so,e people will disagree with me, but, I don't know. Why get a headache with someone who is clearly beyond hope?

Ana wrote: "Hannah, I'm so sorry that you had such a nice time (sarcasm) today. I would pretend I am surprised by the fact that modern girls would still make such blanket statements nowadays...but I'm not, act..."

True. But with people like this I usually play the why game. Like a kid does with an adult.

It's not to be annoying, its just to see how a person got to their statement. Trying to figure out why one said what he or she said.

If I felt like bothering with her I probably would have asked her why she (or you) should count on this. (I was not clear on the story, if the comment was about herself or if it was directed at you.) At a certain point, the person who the questions are directed at gets back into a corner and you get to have a fresh new view on why someone would say such a thing rather than using your own assumptions. (We all have them.)

I would be somewhat curious in this case about the girl because she has already contradicted herself as you stated by pursuing different avenues. It would be interesting to see how she justifies that to herself.

Also if she gets offended or fed up with your simple inquiry then you'll have bonus of not having to interact with her anymore.

Thanks you guys! I am just needed a place to vent this to someone. Luella, your are absolutely right in wondering how she justifies this to herself, but I wouldn't be surprised because she, and my best friend's family as well, manage to somehow reconcile many beliefs that are contradictory. Such as the fact that the girl and my best friend's sister are really good at math and science even though those are not things that are traditionally "feminine" subjects in their eyes and contribute nothing to them being wives and homemakers. My friend's sister could probably have become a doctor if she wanted but her parents would never have allowed that as that is a "male" occupation and so she is a nurse because that is "suitable" for women. There are so many examples it's ridiculous. And yeah, when the girl made that comment she was referring to girls in general not just herself.

Hannah,

I get that, my closest friends I have known for 26 years. We went to high school together so they are my oldest friends in the world, we m're not too much alike. The only reason we are friends because of the amount of time and everything we have been through together.

In my freshman year of high school I transferred in from a high and a part of town that was very affluent. My new school was in the "ghetto", for the first time in my life I would be going to school where kids of my ethnicity and culture were the majority, but I was but like them. I showed up in Jan 1990 on a skateboard with torn jeans a Dead Kennedy's shirt, and flannel in combat boots with long hair that had a purple streak in it and 6 earrings and a nose ring.

Mexican American boys did not dress like that in those days on this side of town. This high school was the size of a community college with close to 2,000 students, completely gated with locks and police officers as security guards and metal detectors. All the kids dressed like they were going to the prom and I stuck out like a sore thumb.

I met all of my friends that day, they laughed and said you are not going to fit in easy here. One of my best to this day is Jay. He lived close to me, so after a few months I would catch a ride with him and hang out with him. One day we were heading to pick up his girlfriend and he said, "Oh, damn... forgot to tell you, if she asks, I was with you all night last night...."

I said, "Let me stop you right there bro, I don't want to know where you were or who you were with, none of my business. But, don't ever ask me to lie for you, ever. Especially to your girlfriend. I don't lie for anyone, not even myself. Don't put me in that situation. I suspect I know what you were doing, I don't want to know. I'm not cool with things like that, and you should tell the fellas not to mention those things in front of me. We cool, you understand me?"

He said, "Yup, got it."

So my friends and I were all real different. I left home and moved 600 miles away two days after graduation, then I traveled and went to art college a bit and left to work for a music magazine. My friends changed, and when occasionally I would introduce people to my old friends they usually made judgement calls. I would hear things like, "uh wow, your friends are an eclectic and colorful bunch. I just don't get it, they don't seem the type of people you normally hang out with." I would say, "They are the only family I have. Other than a shared love for music and concerts. We don't have much in common, but our neighborhood. But they would drop everything if I needed them, or take a bat to someone for me, whether I asked them to or not."

Their friends would make even worse statements about me and what I believed in. But my friends and I have been through some really hard things together, I had a hard life and they were always there to pick up the pieces and help me when I had no one. All the people I lost, all the pain, and the joys all the celebrations.

In high school, if I need a place to crash for a few days their families took me in. It shocked everyone I got married, and out of my 8 friends, my exwife and I spent more time with their family's than our own.

All their families combined made up a majority of our wedding and far out numbered our own biological family members who came. Our marriage was frowned upon by both of our families, it was a racial and religious thing.

Also, my marriage and our new family from that was far from "normal". I quit my successful job to be a stay-at-home dad. She was the primary source of income. I did everything else, bio kids, fosters/adoptive kids, volunteering, coaching, Cubscouts (who I personally do not support but my son wanted to do it). Basically what mothers have been doing for generations.

My wife was a genius, literally. In fact a year ago before we divorced she was offered a teaching position at a college in her two fields of expertise, double her current salary and she said she had no desire to do that nor get her PhD. She's never been concerned with money, and she grew up poor. She loves her job and that's why she does it. She asked me to marry her, our relationship was always a gender swap in what modern society considers a hetero relationship should be.

Our daughter from a young age (3/4 years old) has been adamant about marrying a girl, in fact every year from preschool till the 3rd grade she's asked every girl in her class to marry her, my youngest son prefers to wear Disney Princess Dress hand me downs from his big sister, and my oldest son who just as intelligent as his mother decided at the age of 12 that he is going to her field, all his elementary career him and his friends have been pulled aside and put in extreme advanced class. By the 5th grade they were all working on high school reading, writing, math. He knows his career will make no real money, but he knows he is going to love it. And, the only thing we expect of our children are they be kind, generous, and help/stand up for others.

All we ever did with concern to religion, and sexual orientation, academic work, and other things are provide them with as much info as we can and help them find what works for them. This upsets my friends, they parent a different way. They think there kids need to believe in their religions, and such. They tell us we are not doing a job as proper parents. I don't agree.

My daughter has something close to Christian beliefs her whole life (though neither one of us are Christians at all) my oldest son thought he was an Atheist for most of his life but now has developed Pagan/Wiccan beliefs, my youngest son has severe special needs with intelligence impairment and has only been with us for about 5 years, so we take our time with him.

I was real successful, and before we ever dated when we were just best friends. She asked, "What do you want to be when you grow up? Like what would do you if you could do anything in the world?"

With out hesitation I said, "a stay-at-home dad. I never had a dad, or much of a family. First off, I work hard, only had two real careers but Ive been lucky enough to be real successful in them both. I'm 27 and never had a girlfriend or so I think I will ever get married, not really my thing. But one day sooner than later, I am going "retire" early and adopt a few kids and be a stay-at-home dad and just do that. Volunteer, coach, all that. So I am pretty set in life."

So, Hannah. I can relate to your story. I think it's great who you are now and what you really want your life to be in future. Someone told me, find your passion and make a living out of it. About your friend, I remember when I was young and I thought, "Damn, why do I bother with them. All we got in common is invested time with each other... then I realized, we have invested time together.

I can say I am happy I maintained those relationships... because I matured over the years, I realized. What I have for them in true unconditional love, I do not have to condone or condemn them for who they are and their choices because I made some questionable choices and they have always stood by me, sometimes I would have to be told, "Look, I don't like what your doing or how you are living your life, and I have no problem telling you that. But I love you, and that ain't ever going to change, sometimes... I might just have to love you from afar."

Peterson, thank you for sharing your story with us. That was very powerful and inspiring. :) I loved getting a glimpse of your life experience, and it almost reminds me of some of my oldest friends, those I've been with since Middle School who'd be about the same way, along with those that I've maintained since preschool days where we may not have much in common but we still care strongly for each other. :) Thank you so much for sharing!

Peterson wrote: "Hannah,

I get that, my closest friends I have known for 26 years. We went to high school together so they are my oldest friends in the world, we m're not too much alike. The only reason we are fr..."

Thank you so much for taking the time to write such a personal and detailed reply. Honestly, everything you just said was just what I needed to hear. Thank you for giving me hope that things can change. :) Your kids sound amazing!

Thank you both Hannah and Indigo,

I appreciate your comments very much, I have never had a problem telling my stories. It's one of the things people love about me... Lots and lots and lots and lots of stories, or atleast the ones I do remember, lol.

Often people thought I should be a writer, I did get accepted to two top notch programs for college. At the time, not my thing. I was born an artist, and it was a curse my whole life. Funny, most people have more "conventional" careers then give them up to purse art or writing, or whatever. I had a very successful art career, and I ran from it into the business world. People found that absurd and strange. Then, I got to live my dream life for 15 years.

Now, I am off on a new adventure... I have been traveling in California for about a year now, only stopping for health reasons.

But a great friend, Robert (who I have know some 6 years now and never met in person) lives in the UK. A place named Glossop, about 50 minutes out of Manchester. We just put in place a plan to have me immigrate by mid December. M

So, I get to get on the road properly again. I have so much to do before then, I have to liquidate everything and start the process of slowing shipping the things that matter the most to me. I am excited. I hope to be able to catch the play "Harry Potter and the Cursed Child" (Big Potter fan).

I am not sure Europe is ready for me. But it is going to be fun.

I only mention this because I really like this group. In fact I only joined "Good Reads" for this group, and I might not be as active as I really hoped to be. In fact it pains me to know that I have to head to my storage unit and decide which books I am going to ship!!! Seriously, that's like choosing one child over all the others. I already consolidate a year ago and let go of half my library, now I have to do it again. I am not even going to think about all the crates of vinyl records I have been collecting for over 30 years. At least with my vinyl I have friends that will have a great Christmas. Jay in particular is in for a surprise he gets my early 80's Onkyo sound system with Jennings Research speakers made in the 70's that... ugh, but he will appreciate them the most.

I apologize, I get long winded which is why I can never be a writer lol.


I just wanted to say to you Hannah, I have enjoyed your posts and replies in my threads a lot. Just in case I do happen to drop off the group threads and don't get the chance to int the future.

Indigo, I hope you don't mind, I profile stalked you... love you interests, I share quite a few. If inclined feel free to friend request me. I'm new to those genres and I could use some good advice as to what to read.

Hannah, I don't mean to leave you out either. Your books are just as interesting as well. You are invited to send book suggestions as well.

I just started the "Parasol Protectorate Series", living it so far.

"Cheers"

-P

Good luck and enjoy Britain there Peterson! I have a friend over there as well, but due to financial issues and time constraints, I've yet to see them face to face, the same as you. I can understand how moving like that would be a huge challenge! The three times in my life that I've had to move, we were fortunate to be able to drive there and meet our moving van as well. Moving overseas is a whole new challenge I would think!

I'm flattered that you profile stalked me and found my interests fascinating and relatable! I'm not sure which genres you're talking about, since I tend to favor mostly fantasy (some adult but a lot young adult or middle grade) though I've read a bit of metaphysical and New Age books as well. Within those areas I have quite a few suggestions. Outside those areas however, I couldn't tell you lol.

I get very long-winded myself too, and regularly leave very long comments to the threads that I stalk. :) The way I've always framed it in my mind is that my ability to go on about something IS what makes me a great writer, or at least helps me to be as such. :D It's never too late to become an author, just as its never too late to become an artist. It does make sense why you dove from the arts into business when you put it like that. Everybody has different things that they require out of their lives at certain points in their lives as well!

I wish you the best of luck with the newest phase of your life's journey! It certainly sounds like a very exciting and engaging, active life indeed!

~Indigo