Our Shared Shelf discussion

Here's my favorite part: "Contrary to misguided notions of gender equality, women do not and will not seize power and create self-love and self-esteem through violent acts. Female violence is no more liberatory than male violence. And when violence is made to look sexy and eroticized, as in the Lemonade sexy-dress street scene, it does not serve to undercut the prevailing cultural sentiment that it is acceptable to use violence to reinforce domination, especially in relations between men and women. Violence does not create positive change."

I'm interested in seeing 90-year-old Miss Hattie, too. She probably does have the most empowering message in the album. But people don't pay to see 90-year-old grandmothers speak. They pay to see sexy Beyonce dance and sing.

On a related subject, here's Lena Horne's story. For those who are too young to know, she was the first African American woman that Hollywood made into a glamour girl.

http://www.youmustrememberthispodcast...

Adam wrote: "Emma:

If I'm interpreting Bell Hooks correctly. It's that celebrity only glazes the surface on Feminism and doesn't deal with the depth of the issues and troubles that Feminism and women face."

I would say you are not interpreting Bell Hooks correctly. What I think she is saying is that Beyonce's album (not celebrity in general but this specific work of art) powerfully challenges some damaging ideas that limit black women, but in the end it doesn't (in hooks' opinion) go far enough because it doesn't challenge the role of men in perpetuating those damaging ideas. Or in challenging men to change and free themselves.

I tend to disagree. Personally I don't feel like I want to wait for men to change.

Here's a collection of opinions very different to bell hooks':

https://gimletmedia.com/episode/14-al...

One of the questions asked is: did Jay Z really cheat? The male voices said no, and the female mostly said yes. I'm actually inclined to believe it's fiction, but as the two main (female) hosts say: if Jay Z DIDN'T cheat, then he's a brave man to put up with all this scrutiny just to make a point to men about marriage and infidelity. So if it is fiction, then Jay Z is a #HeforShe.

This article has also been posted in the newspaper The Guardian. For it to be posted there means that bell hooks' words reach more people.

http://www.theguardian.com/music/2016...

Kressel wrote: "Here's a collection of opinions very different to bell hooks':

https://gimletmedia.com/episode/14-al...

One of the questions asked is: did Jay Z really cheat? The male vo..."

Maybe he is brave or maybe it's just that he recognizes the bottom line here the big pay off. Tidal, Jay-Z’s company is making beaucoup bucks off of this record.

How come it is that Iggy Pop and Lady Gaga's alternate personas are recognized as works of art but when Beyonce does this people start to criticize her for being a liar and her father is called upon to confirm or deny whether he hit her.

I think the beauty here is that this couple is intimately familiar with the way the world works. Instead of fighting it they use all nonsense to fuel sales and get their work out into the world. This is just genius taking all the rumors and intrigue that surrounds them and turning it into gold. A true example of making lemons into lemonade. Whether they believe in the messages portrayed or how in depth their work touches the subject in my opinion is not the point. They are artists and are not required to be articulate world leaders or experts on any subject even if there are other artists who have agendas beyond art for art’s sake. Emma who runs this very club has taken her good fortune, and fruits of her hard labor and gone out into the world to make it a better place. This is fantastic but it certainly is not expected of any one in the entertainment industry. So why would should Beyonce be held up to a certain standard.

In Lemonade Beyonce brings attention to feminism and civil rights and in short really human rights in general. But whether her broaching of the subjects is expansive in its depth or complete should not matter. The plus here is that bringing attention to these subjects has make them come up for discussion. They will debated, inspected and scrutinized at least for a small portion of time. Like all art it inspires some kind of emotion, some sort of debate.

The point of this club is to read books selected by someone who is in the entertainment industry and is outspoken about women’s issues. She has used her influence to pick certain works and we read this material and discuss it, good, bad etc. Then she uses her influence to speak with these individuals and just keep the conversation going.

Whether Beyonce has gone out and done the same thing knowingly is not the point, whether Jay-Z is a hero to all women is not the point. The point is there is a discussion now about the issues reflected in her visual album. And in my mind that is all that really matters.

Emma wrote: "Luella wrote: "The point of this club is to read books selected by someone who is in the entertainment industry and is outspoken about women’s issues. She has used her influence to pick certain wor..."

Agreed.

Whats the alternative? To not discuss or bring it up at all? While i can certainly understand some of the points being raised it seems a bit tacky to basically go out and call celebrities frauds for even trying to bring awareness. Watson has stated she wanted to use her popularity and platform for something useful. I see no problem with celebrities doing that even if they are not out in the streets holding signs, etc. I think anyone who fights for gender equality can have a role that is different from another no matter how small or large of that role they play.