The Sword and Laser discussion

I've been trying to keep my reading habit from demolishing my bank account by using my local library for most of my reading.
My library is hooked into a system of eBooks and has (apparently), two disparate systems for handling them. Unfortunately, many of the books that we've read recently have had a queue associated with them so that it's harder to participate in the social aspect of The Sword and Laser, since I often don't get access to the book until the tail end of the month, if at all (yes, I know TANSTAAFL).
Does anyone else have a similar problem?
If so, how do you manage it?

For recent release books, it's hard. I'm lucky enough to have access to two good library systems (Seattle's and the county that I live in which contains Seattle). Even then sometimes I lose out. So, I either a) buy the book if it looks like something I really want anyway, b) skip it, c) check it out as a physical book.

I do think that you should expect to buy some books during the year in a book club that you're serious about (i.e. not one where you're kind of along for the ride and to see if anything interesting comes up). I buy about half the books we do on average. That's only 6 books or about $60/year.

Water off a duck's back.

Meaning, I don't let it bother me. If I miss out on this or that discussion, so be it. I sometimes add comments to threads after I've read the book even if the group has moved on, and sometimes those comments are remarked upon, sometimes not. No biggie.

Yeah, I prefer digital, but if I'm on a time crunch, I'll go with the physical library version, as that's usually easier to get quickly.

This queue system in the libraries is SO frustrating! I understand why they can't just copy the book as many times as they want but it still seems so absurd in a way... It's just a file.

I wish there was a Spotify for books... Kindle Unlimited (at least in Germany) is not worth the 10€/month. Maybe it's better in other countries... And then there was another app (I forgot the name) which you could only use on your phone or tablet but not on your reader... But apparently people just don't read enough books in a month to make a service like this profitable. And until then, that's me most of the time:

I haven't read along since *checks* Uprooted. The $AU dropped against the $US so Kindle books are more expensive than dead trees now, and my library system never has super-new books. So, I listen, but I can't participate in book discussions. It's only frustrating when it's a book I did actually want to read - many times I am content to skip anyway; I don't think I've ever read a laser pick, they are just not my thing.

Olga wrote: "And until then, that's me most of the time:"

I would add one more panel to this comic strip, set in my local comic shop.

Olga wrote: "I wish there was a Spotify for books... Kindle Unlimited (at least in Germany) is not worth the 10€/month."

Doesn't Amazon bundle it into Prime? So you also get streaming music and movies, plus free shipping, with Kindle Unlimited.

Elizabeth wrote: "The $AU dropped against the $US so Kindle books are more expensive than dead trees now, and my library system never has super-new books."

I'm not condoning it, but there are... other ways to acquire a book online.

No, KU is a separate thing, not part of Prime.

Anyone who loves reading and books shouldn't even slightly promote stealing work.

Look, I get that everyone is different, etc but is it REALLY that much of a burden to allot $60-100 per YEAR to book club books? That's all we're talking about and honestly if $10/month is an ongoing burden it feels like other things need to take priority (yes, I know - some people might be on fixed, low income. So in some cases, yes, $10/month every month IS an issue... but for most of us I can't imagine it is).

It's not even $10 every month. Sometimes we read older books that are cheaper and which might have paper copies in used bookstores, sometimes you'll find the book is available in the library, etc.

The last couple of polls, I've requested several of the books up for vote and they came in within a week or two of the start of the month.

If you know someone else in the book club, suggest alternating who buys books and share (or go half-and-half on the ones you both want to read). I didn't get my copy of A Darker Shade of Magic until the end of the month after it was read.

Rick wrote: "No, KU is a separate thing, not part of Prime.

Anyone who loves reading and books shouldn't even slightly promote stealing work.

Look, I get that everyone is different, etc but is it REALLY tha..."

I buy most of the books I read (see my TBR tower in my profile) but I also go to the library a lot.

Someone who is going to the library isn't buying the book anyway, so borrowing it from a friend or downloading it comes out the same.

Actually to your last point... not quite. Library sales are still sales and they can report borrows to publishers, no?

Borrow from a friend? Yep, I'd argue that it's the same as a library long as we're not talking an email that goes "Hey friends, you should all read this book I've attached!!" to 40 people.

Note that Amazon and, I think, B&N have limited ways to 'lend' ebooks to the people. I wish this was uniform and more widespread (Kobo doesn't do this at all).

I wish there were ways to lend "any" eBooks. Kindle does do it in the US, but it is on a very limited number of books.

I often suggest books to friends and family that in the "dead tree era" (when I bought paper books) I would just give them my copy to read.

At least this month there is no problem in anyone getting it. As the ebook is available for free in multiple places.

Olga wrote: "... And until then, that's me most of the time:"

Chortle.
Olga, that cartoon is so me.

Books cost about the same as 1-2 coffees out, or a fast food meal. It's not a large burden to buy a book. Yes, it's nice to get a book from the library. I do it regularly. But the cost of a new book is not all that high, all things considered.

Rick wrote: "but is it REALLY that much of a burden to allot $60-100 per YEAR to book club books?.."
It may not seem much money to you but there was a a time when buying a book meant that my family ate meat 2 times that week not 3.
I would still never dream of buying coffee-shop coffee every day and limit myself to buying a book a month.
And no I am/was not on a fixed income, I actually earn the average for the area where I live.

Some of us don't even have access to English language libraries.
The amount of hard-back only or hard-to-get-hold of books is the reason for me giving up on most book clubs.

I have also switched to trying to get most of my ebooks from the library, but if it's the 10th of the month and the month's pick isn't mine, I've been buying it anyway. At least this month the ebook is free on Kindle, at least in the US.

Joanna wrote: "At least this month the ebook is free on Kindle, at least in the US."

Until a couple of years ago Amazon would charge non-USians $2 for the privilege of downloading any free kindle book except the classics.
Thankfully that stopped when they gave us direct access to downloads through GR.

Esther wrote: "Thankfully that stopped when they gave us direct access to downloads through GR."

I wonder if that's a result of the anti-trust and class-action lawsuit was started against publishers like Hachette and Harper-Collins by the various state Attorneys General for their collusion on price-fixing?

I didn't follow the suit, but I did get some credits for Kindle amounting to $13-something dollars. A friend of mine who was an earlier adopter of Kindle received more than $140. Right around that time a lot public domain works went to $0.

My wife got over $200 from Amazon. She's among the earliest adopters of Kindle.

Concerning free downloads, I love love love gutenberg.org. If you're into classics, or even older SFF, it's got loads. I picked up Treasure Island there, then some Dickens. After that it was almost the entire run of Tarzan and Barsoom (some still in copyright so there are a few not available on that site). There's even weird old stuff, like "Black Star Passes" by John Campbell. He's much better known as an editor, but those stories were interesting as SF history.

Trike wrote: "Esther wrote: "Thankfully that stopped when they gave us direct access to downloads through GR."

I wonder if that's a result of the anti-trust and class-action lawsuit was started against publishe..."

I just got a decent amount of credit with the following note: "Apple, Inc. (Apple) funded this credit to settle antitrust lawsuits brought by State Attorneys General and Class Plaintiffs about the price of electronic books (eBooks). As a result of this Settlement, qualifying eBook purchases from any retailer are eligible for a credit. You previously received an email informing you that you were eligible for this credit. "

Which confuses me, because I was buying Kindle books, not Apple books.

I know that authors want reviews. You all want good reads. Maybe a group could contact sci fi authors at smashwords and get free books in return for honest reviews?
Try Greek Gods Return: Wealth Disparity Solution, which involves super heros archeologists, a visit to Troy dancing on rings of Saturn, Mu and Atlantis, an elder race and political and economic issues. While it has some writing issues is not too bad if I say so myself..100% off price there coupon BD97K A review would help me tremendously. It is not Heinleins sranger in a strange land, "Glory Road", "Ring World" etc. but it ain't bad..

Joanna wrote: "Which confuses me, because I was buying Kindle books, not Apple books."

Apple fixed the prices with the publishing companies and they had to keep to those prices no matter who the final distributer was. That's why Amazon put the 'This price was set by the publisher.' notice on a lot of items.

I also got a refund from Barnes and Noble for some Nook books.

Henry wrote: "I know that authors want reviews. You all want good reads. Maybe a group could contact sci fi authors at smashwords and get free books in return for honest reviews?
Try Greek Gods Return: Wealth D..."

Henry, there's a place to pimp your own stuff called "Author Promo (Share Your Stuff!)," graciously provided by our hosts. This post belongs there.

https://www.goodreads.com/topic/group...

Rick wrote: "No, KU is a separate thing, not part of Prime.

Anyone who loves reading and books shouldn't even slightly promote stealing work.

Look, I get that everyone is different, etc but is it REALLY tha..."

KU isn't available in Australia, and geo-pricing means that some books are priced a lot higher than explained by the exchange rate. For example Uprooted was originally priced at $28AU as an ebook, and half that for not AU.

We also get titles blocked, so we can't buy them as ebooks. Not that I'm promoting bootleg books, simply that how we use the same device or medium is different around the world.

Wendy wrote: "KU isn't available in Australia, and geo-pricing means that some books are priced a lot higher than explained by the exchange rate. For example Uprooted was originally priced at $28AU as an ebook, and half that for not AU. "

When I was downunder a couple years ago, I stopped at some bookstores (and a comic book store in Cairns) and suffered severe sticker shock. Even the clearance books were more expensive than new books in the US. On the boat ride back from the Great Barrier Reef I was talking with some folks whose daughter had traveled around Canada and the US and they said she sent back books and music.

Weirdly, clothes were cheaper there than here. (I know this because a bus driver lost my luggage and I had to buy tourist stuff on Fraser Island.)

Trike wrote: "When I was downunder a couple years ago, I stopped at some bookstores (and a comic book store in Cairns) and suffered severe sticker shock. Even the clearance books were more expensive than new books in the US."

I was paying more for paperbacks 20+ years ago in Tasmania than I pay for eBooks now. I consider a $10 book now cheap.
Us Aussies have always paid more for entertainment. Video games are up to 50% more than the US price.

I don't doubt the tourist stuff would be cheap. That shit is all made in China ;-) Anything with a recognisable label is at a premium price. Comparable with overseas prices. and probably still made in China but with more quality control.

I make wishlists on The Book Depository and then wait until they email me about a discount. So I get most of my books now for about $10.
Before TBD Amazon's shipping costs were prohibitive, frequently doubling the price of a book. They were sent through Germany and took 6-15 weeks to arrive. If I ordered more than one to reduce shipping they were sent together in a box and customs would charge me.
On the other hand English language books at our local bookshop cost between $20-30 for a mass market paperback.

Some of my friends are impressed by the amount of classics I have read. The reason is that Project Gutenberg came to the rescue when I had no money for books. Such a wonderful site.

Steve wrote: "I've been trying to keep my reading habit from demolishing my bank account by using my local library for most of my reading.
My library is hooked into a system of eBooks and has (apparently), two d..."

Steve, I've posted about this problem before and asked if we could have more advance notice for the next month's read, so we could have time to get the book from the library. Unfortunately, the mods decided we didn't need more time to get the books. I can't afford to buy the books every month, so I'm not able to participate too often because I'm not a fast reader and usually can't get the book, let alone finish reading it, before the end of the month.

Trike wrote: "I'm not condoning it, but there are... other ways to acquire a book online."

Yeah, but if I were going to that trouble, I'd really want to read that book and, in that instance, I'd buy it. The book reads here are great intros to stuff I wouldn't ordinarily read, but I also am not going to go out of my way to get my hands on them.

I've also noticed recently that new Kindle books are more expensive (if only by a few cents) than the dead tree version. I prefer to read on Kindle, but, if it's going to cost the same to have a version I actually own and can lend to others, I'm going to go with that route. But $10 is my 'impulse' limit and I've got to be really keen on the book to go over that. Personal preference and priorities, obviously.

As I said, it doesn't worry me overly much to miss out on a discussion. I've got plenty of other things to read - my TBR and also (and probably more importantly) stuff for uni. And, if I have missed a book I did actually want, it's not unusual for it to come up as a Kindle Daily Deal a few months after S&L have read it anyway.

Elizabeth wrote: "... I've also noticed recently that new Kindle books are more expensive (if only by a few cents) than the dead tree version. I prefer to read on Kindle, but, if it's going to cost the same to have a version I actually own and can lend to others, I'm going to go with that route. But $10 is my 'impulse' limit and I've got to be really keen on the book to go over that. Personal preference and priorities, obviously.
..."

I hear you Elizabeth. Pricing eBooks higher than the paper versions cheeses me off. Enough so that it is usually a deal breaker for me. My 'impulse' limit is lower than yours -- about $6.
I have a long TBR list and always have several months worth of already bought books waiting to be read; so, if I miss a pick during the group read month, it is no big deal.

Tina wrote: "Steve wrote: "I've been trying to keep my reading habit from demolishing my bank account by using my local library for most of my reading."

The good news is that on the latest podcast Tom announced one of the picks for 2018 will be Frankenstein. So that's pretty good advanced warning. ;)

Trike wrote: "The good news is that on the latest podcast Tom announced one of the picks for 2018 will be Frankenstein. So that's pretty good advanced warning."

Ok, getting a jump on 2018 at Project Gutenberg

http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/84

In my life I've had so little money I had to wash my laundry in the bath tub and air dry it because I literally didn't have $2.50 in quarters for the machines. I spent a week once eating white rice. Just. Rice.

Now I can afford to purchase every ebook I want simply because I like to take digital notes and I own both an iPad and a Kindle as well as other assorted unnecessary technology. Hardly a gold-plated existence, but certainly a better one than many other people have.

So I speak from experience here when I say it's not just $10. There are entire psychological planes of guilt, stress, embarrassment, shame, boredom, and isolation that goes along with the lack of money. And monotony. No one ever really touches on how being poor takes up so much of your time and is seemingly endless.

What I most remember is how horribly lonely and isolating it is. You don't realize how much of your social life is underpinned by culture. If you hit a point where you can't afford anything that is current the result is isolating. It wears on you, in a similar way to eating white rice every day does.

So yes. I'm deeply sympathetic to the frustration. Getting the book eventually isn't the point. It's the connection to other humans and the community that is craved.

I personally believe there are situations where it's forgivable to steal it. I'm not going to say it's "ok" or "right". I've been poor enough in my life to believe it's just not black and white like that. You do what you need to do to get by and people who have never been there are never going to understand why a tiny bit of "unnecessary luxury" is so desperately needed.

Just be honest with yourself. I know people who drop $60-$80 on the latest big studio video game for their top of the line console, but then steal Game of Thrones, and ebooks because "money is tight". Those people are lying to themselves, and it's easy when talking about pirating to assume that everyone doing it is that kind of amoral d***.

But not everyone is. I'll just say that if you do lift a piece of media the absolute minimum you need to do is go review it. Reviews contribute to future sales in a real and tangible way.

Well said EJ. In my earlier comments I didn't meant to denigrate anyone who truly doesn't have the money and if I came across like that, I apologize.

My comments were more about the sort you identify at the end of your post - the people who will spend on X, but when it comes to books, complain about the price. Ever since ebooks started to become popular, there's a faction of these folks who complain about the price not being lower... when in fact the absolute dollar difference between, say, $10 and $6 isn't at all material to them and they'll stop by Starbucks or the like to buy something that they will quite literally piss away.

Concerning free downloads, I love love love gutenberg.org."

Gutenberg is an amazing resource. The sheer number of works available has been a great help to me.

I always check over at MobileRead Forum's ebook uploads first, though. Project Gutenberg's ebooks are automatically generated, but at MR, you get that extra human touch for better formatted ebooks. Of course, everyone there's just volunteering their work, so it's nowhere near as extensive. It's just my first stop before Gutenberg.

Also tied with Gutenberg is LibriVox. It's another volunteer website, in this case making audiobooks based on Project Gutenberg books.

I'm grateful for Gutenberg, as I'm grateful for the work of all the volunteers out there giving their time to projects like these.

Mark wrote: "Trike wrote: "The good news is that on the latest podcast Tom announced one of the picks for 2018 will be Frankenstein. So that's pretty good advanced warning."

Ok, getting a jump on 2018 at Project Gutenberg"

If you want to do it in audio, Cori Samuel's reading on Librivox is very good. Also free.

https://librivox.org/frankenstein-or-...

Ben wrote: "Concerning free downloads, I love love love gutenberg.org."

Gutenberg is an amazing resource. The sheer number of works available has been a great help to me.

I always check over at MobileRead Fo..."

Actually, all the books at Project Gutenberg are read and edited by humans. I used to volunteer for PG. The formatting is basic text because it takes a lot of extra work to format books. The books are scanned via OCR, then the books go through several edits by people to make sure they are accurate. You "apprentice" by doing books at the beginner level for awhile before you can advance to the next level.

Librivox is a great resource too, but all the books are public domain, which may or may not be Project Gutenberg.

I have a hard time finding current sci-fi/fantasy at our library too. The online ebook download system is somewhat better, but still doesn't have the best catalogue. Fortunately, the Inter-library loan is available statewide, so I can request a lot of books through that, if I'm willing to wait a week. I'm on limited funds, so sometimes if I can't find the book through one of those three ways, I have to skip that month's reading for the book club.

Project Gutenberg is a fantastic resource. However, my fist stop is always eBooks@Adelaide https://ebooks.adelaide.edu.au/index.... I find the texts are a bit cleaner. There is no where near the selection of PG, so that is my second stop. There are a few books at Adelaide that are not available on Project Gutenberg.

Needless to say, all books at both places are out of copyright, so as a rule published before 1926.

David wrote: "Needless to say, all books at both places are out of copyright, so as a rule published before 1926. "

US Copyright law is not that simple, there were a lot of amendments in 1978 and later that changed it from the original 70 years. In MOST cases it's 70 years from the authors death, not publication date. In some cases it's 95 years from publication date, or 120 years from creation date...

If your wondering why, then blame the biggest scum sucking corporation out there.. Disney. They lobbied to extend the period so that characters like Mickey Mouse didn't become part of the public domain. Then they took existing public domain characters, like Aladdin, and copyrighted them. Yeah, if you have the money you can make the rules.

A lot of times libraries will have access to more than one ebook "app". Mine primarly uses Overdrive, but I have also downloaded a couple others that have helped with the availablity of some books. I also just signed up for Scribd. It isn't free. It is $8.99/month (about the price of one mass market paperback book these days in the States), but I find that it has access to a lot more books I want to read lately than Kindle Unlimited.

You might also see if there is possible another library that you can sign up for. Where I live I signed up at my county library, one of the city libraries close by, another cities library in a different county (I cheated with this one b/c I had my friend sign up for me where she lives since I know she doesn't use their library system) and I just found out a few months back that because I am a resident of California I can sign up for the LA Public Library.

LA County Library has a much better selection than Orange County and you don't need to be a resident to sign up. If your close enough, the Huntington Beach library is pretty awesome.

AndrewP wrote: "LA County Library has a much better selection than Orange County and you don't need to be a resident to sign up. If your close enough, the Huntington Beach library is pretty awesome."

I am actually a member of the HB Library. The beauty of it is that now they don't charge for membership if you don't live in HB (used to be $25). I keep meaning to get up to the LA County Library to sign up because you have to do it in person. Everntually I will get there!

^Me too! I work in LA (live in OC) but the libraries are generally closed by the time I get off. Lunch is generally recover time. I'll make it out sometime soon, the ebook selection is just to enticing.

But you can do a trip to the main Library at 5th then take a walk to The Last Bookstore in LA, a must just for the "Book Tunnel."

Stephen wrote: "But you can do a trip to the main Library at 5th then take a walk to The Last Bookstore in LA, a must just for the "Book Tunnel.""

I just checked out google images of the Book Tunnel, now I need a plane ticket to LA to experience this live!! We have great bookstores in the Boston area but no book tunnels that I know of...