Our Shared Shelf discussion

Hi all!

This is a topic close to my heart! I have always felt that fandom was a radical space for women, LGBTQ, and other non-heteronormative communities... So to me, this is both an affinity interest issue and a feminist (intersectional) issue.

Vox is currently publishing a series on fandom: http://www.vox.com/2016/6/8/11889396/...

I've just read the article "Why we're terrified of fanficton" and it says a lot of things that have been on my mind with regards to fanfiction for a long time.

A couple of quotes that I appreciated in particular:

"Young women are so attacked for loving the media they love that it is a radical act for a young woman to love something unashamedly. And transformative fandom is the most radical act of all, because it reverses that 'lady thing to respectable thing' process. It takes a piece of media that may not have been designed for young women and makes it for young women."

"Transformative fandom is still overwhelmingly dominated by women; Archive of Our Own found that more of its users identified as genderqueer (6 percent) than as male (4 percent). Men who are involved in fandom are more likely to participate in curative fandom. They end up on Reddit, ranking every Doctor on Doctor Who. Women who are involved in fandom are more likely to end up on Tumblr, dream-casting a racebent version of Doctor Who."

I think there's a lot to discuss :) I'd like to keep this topic about issues and concepts of fandom IN GENERAL rather than talking about particular subfandoms specifically. Obviously examples are helpful and welcome.

Any other fangirls (or boys! or folks!) out there?

I'm a fangirl, and I am so glad we are coming into an age where young girls who have other interests aren't being scoffed at anymore. People really have to start thing when someone is one thing they suddenly lose the ability to be smart or intelligent, when that's not true! You can enjoy superheroes and still be a scientist etc

✶Ellie✶ wrote: "I'm a fangirl, and I am so glad we are coming into an age where young girls who have other interests aren't being scoffed at anymore."

Totally agree. Fan people are seen as being so naive or stupid by some.

It's so nice to be able to delve into worlds in which things can be equal, different compared to what we experience each day.

I totally a fangirl. I like goes on convention you can actually meet awesome people. My last was 2 years ago and that was Xena: Warriors Princess. People who I meet there become my family. Literally;)

I also wrote some stories and joined a forum. Plus is nice to know that there are other people that I can share them with.
Xena Warrior Princess is one of my favorite shows that I liked to watch when I was a kid. :)

I'm personal meet Lucy Lawless "xena" like 4 times ;)

I love many fictional world from the classics: Dr Who, Star Trek through Harry potter and all points between. I have been collecting comics since forever. I think fangirls and fanboys have another dimension to our lives sesing the world for different perspective and tends in my opinion to make people more compassionate and sensation to other people and there view point,

Agnes Wrote: "meet Lucy Lawless "xena" like 4 times ;)"

Must be nice to meet your heroes I would like I suspect many others on this board to meet Emma. Maybe one day :)

Was cool to meet her but to the end everyone is the same normal human being ;)

Personally, I have met a lot of artist local and international but I can say that I am not a fangirl but rather admirer! I know it has the same meaning at some point but I am much comfortable when they call me an admirer! :)

I have never met a person whom I adore! Will surely earn the opportunity to meet Emma!

I would also like to meet Emma one day! But for now all I can do is to finish first my studies! I only have 6 semesters to go! ;-)

Christine wrote: "I would also like to meet Emma one day! But for now all I can do is to finish first my studies!"

Very wise you don't want to have any distractions and risk getting expelled I don't think Emma would like that :)

Agnes Wrote: "the end everyone is the same normal human being|"

If you will all indulge me waxing lyrical for a moment

It may sound strange but Emma's being a normal person is the thing I admire about her most and I suspect given the life she had it's the result of strong character and hard work like everything she has achieved.

I think we would make good friends as I am sure all of us on the shelf would.

Katelyn wrote: "Hi all!

This is a topic close to my heart! I have always felt that fandom was a radical space for women, LGBTQ, and other non-heteronormative communities... So to me, this is both an affinity inte..."

I read some of those articles you Linked to Katelyn. Thanks for Sharing those! Fanfiction is a huge part of what I read overall and now I am looking at it from a whole new angle. I've always just thought of it as people just not wanting to leave the stories behind and wanting to keep reading about their fav worlds.

I find myself looking around my house at all the books that have accumulated over the years and there are between 300 and 500 books but very few have any sort of female Heroes and I think none have LGBT characters. My fanfiction on the other hand is packed with it :))

Robert wrote "I think none have LGBT"

I have noticed that fan fiction has far more than mainstream is it because there is a higher percentage of gay people in the fan base or are the main stream still bit weary.

In TV shows there does seem to be tendency to kill of the gay character the most recent example being the "the 100" great show by the way.

Ross wrote: "Agnes Wrote: "the end everyone is the same normal human being|"

If you will all indulge me waxing lyrical for a moment

It may sound strange but Emma's being a normal person is the thing I admire..."

That why I admire Emma ! Not because she is famous but she is a real authentic person like you and me .

Hey all, let's keep this more on topic, for example the direction that Robert and Ross are going in, talking about fandom in general, is more what I had in mind, rather than talking about interest in a specific fandom or celebrity (as much as we all do love Emma!).

I think there's (maybe?) a greater impulse to find community and additional media for those who do not see their own image or interests reflected in mainstream TV/film/literature... So I think that's a big reason why women and LGBT folks are more common in fanfiction and other transformative fandom activities.

I have gone to one conventions two times but I did not like the experience. It was for KCON convention, I went since there were going to be some speakers talking about Korean dramas. The line was too long, it was more about advertising and it was not organized that well. Another time I went to see Hugh Jackman when he did a charity event. He is one of my favorite actors. :)
Well I have joined a forum, or follow a blog since is nice to know that there are others that like the tv show, movie or book that I like.

I think fandom has its place so as long as it doesnt become obsessive. Ive seen many cases where fans have been so obsessive that they truly believe their hero's can do no wrong and put them on unrealistic pedestals.

^ I also agree with you James!

Remember what happened to Christina Grimmie last month? It's horrible! An obsessive fan are sometimes dangerous! :/

James Wrote: "I've seen many cases"

Christine Wrote: "Remember what happened to Christina Grimmie"

Actually given the number of fans these are extremely rare cases and the people involved have a history of mental illness. Lets not panic anyone star or admirer unduly. Think of the good Emma has done on goodreads and HeforShe with her fan base it is more a force for good than evil ob balance.

And recently someone was arrested attempting to kill Donald trump, I don't think he could be classed as a fan.

"And recently someone was arrested attempting to kill Donald trump, I don't think he could be classed as a fan. "

Not remotely in the same hemisphere for the argument Ross. Come on now. lol

James Wrote: "Not remotely in the same hemisphere for the argument Ross. Come on now. lol "

Fair enough :))) I was serrrrrretching a point but still most fan support is a positive force if the celebrity is of the right character.

Ross wrote: "Robert wrote "I think none have LGBT"

I have noticed that fan fiction has far more than mainstream is it because there is a higher percentage of gay people in the fan base or are the main stream ..."

I'd think its because for one fandom doesn't have to care for sales, and secondly a lot is written by youngsters imitating styles from other media/fandom, like certain Manga streams.

So no, it wouldn't necessarily ascribe it to a higher percentage of gay fans. Fandom ist just, among other things, a playfield for developing sexual fantasies, which to a degree exist independent of sexual orientation.

That's an interesting point, that sexual fantasies can exist independently of sexual orientation, which I think also lends itself to an understanding of sexual desire that goes beyond the standard binary construct. What does it mean for a cis het teenage girl reading slash fic to be enjoying those stories and fantasies despite the fact that she is not, and never will be, a gay man? Perhaps it lends itself to the development of more fluid sexualities (or at least a more fluid understanding of them).

That said, there are statistics that show higher than usual rates of LGBT membership on fanfiction and other transformative fandom websites. Specifically, as quoted in the OP, the percentage of members identifying as genderqueer on AO3 is higher than those identifying as male. That is pretty unusual!

I had to google what genderqueer means - and according to what I read it seems that it isn't actually used as a statement of sexuality, but rather as a statement of how one perceives sexuality.

At least the Geman definition I found for it says that "genderqueer" is used to describe "someone that does not identify with standard norms of sexuality" which leaves open a pretty wide field - which could be a reason why more members indentify as genderqueer.

But it is certainly is a possibilty that sites like AO3, standing outside of the mainstream and offering anonymity, do lend themselves to the LGBTQ community, which there would not have to face a direct coming out.

Katelyn wrote: "that sexual fantasies can exist independently of sexual orientation"

One of the best examples of this I personally have found is the Vampire chronicles books by Anne Rice. She has sexuality as a fluid concept due to the fact the characters are immortals in particular the relationship between character Lestat and Louis was an excellent example of a maturing relationship that I could relate to even as a straight man. It was an illustration that human romantic relationships are the same no matter the pairings involved.

The idea of being seduced by a vampire does seem to have become universal.

I have no idea where the desire to mention disruptive technology comes from, but the voice told me so now I do.

Something about radical thinking outside of the box and defining one's own limits and reality rather than going with the flow.

Gerd wrote: "I had to google what genderqueer means - and according to what I read it seems that it isn't actually used as a statement of sexuality, but rather as a statement of how one perceives sexuality.

At..."
You do have a good point here Gerd. Coming out isn't an act, it's a process consisting of acts. And, anonymity is really appreciated among LGBTI folks, since heteronormativity and homo-, trans, and bi-, as well as interphobia are still live and well in our society.



Emma wrote: "Does anyone have experience in attending fandom-related-conventions? (I've always wanted to go to one, but travel costs usually get in the way) Do you think women and LGBT people are more likely to participate in fandom-conventions because of the reasons Katelyn mentions?"
I know that many LGBT folks meet at Anime and Manga conventions, and there's a special atmosphere of openness and understanding at them.



Katelyn wrote: "Hey all, let's keep this more on topic, for example the direction that Robert and Ross are going in, talking about fandom in general, is more what I had in mind, rather than talking about interest ..."
Katelyn, that's why I love fanfiction so much. Okay, I only read HP Hermione fanfiction, and I must say there's still a lack of intersex persons in fanfiction, but still. In fanfiction, you can make up whatever you want, you can write your own story, adapt it, like the screenplay that is based on a book.
Now, I must say I really like the HP fandom because one can literally compare anything to it, it's something similar to our way of expression. People from all over the world will understand what I want to say when I say my chemistry teacher was like Snape. It's a home, a language, a community where you belong.

I think that's one huge part of fandom - you find people all over the world who can relate to you, and you can express feelings and explain topics using your fandom (depending on how intersectional they are), and especially for those who feel lost, unwelcome, uneasy around their family and people from the street, they are able to find a new family.

Ross wrote: "It may sound strange but Emma's being a normal person is the thing I admire...

I think we would make good friends as I am sure all of us on the shelf would."

I can definitely second you on that!
Guess what, we would fill the Trafalgar Square if we met! Or even a bigger space!