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Thanks, M.A - from your article, this fact surprised and enlightened me:"in the United States, self-published authors are barred from the Library of Congress’s CIP program anyway"
I imagine it's because they're already flooded with more books than they can easily handle each year, so it's an attempt to stem the flow. To me as an outsider, though, it does seem to run counter to what I had assumed was a goal of the Library of Congress. (But reading on to part II of your article, I see that the PCN sort of fills that gap.)
BTW, I've never seen an author's birth date included in any CIP I've ever seen included in a book, so this sounded odd to me:
"2. The Main Entry: the name and year of birth of the first contributor named on the title page,"
They're not included in the Australian CIP, but I do see that your example does indeed include that info.
Also, in Australia, just from my own observation it seems that each book/format gets its own individual CIP, rather than the CIP listing each format and its ISBN - I assume because in that way, a release of a new format does not require changes to the CIP of earlier formats. So that also differs from what you've noted here:
"6. Statement of issued formats, if applicable.
7. Each format of the book and its ISBN."
Nor does the Australian CIP entry have a national control number. E.g., here are two of my CIP entries for my 2nd book:
National Library of Australia Cataloguing-in-Publication entry (ebook)
Creator: Kendall, L. J., author.
Title: Harsh lessons / by L. J. Kendall.
ISBN: 9781925430059 (ebook)
Series: Kendall, L. J. Leeth dossier ; Vol 2.
Subjects: Magic--Fiction.
Fantasy fiction.
Science fiction.
Dewey Number: A823.4
National Library of Australia Cataloguing-in-Publication entry (paperback : A-format edition)
Creator: Kendall, L. J., author.
Title: Harsh lessons / by L. J. Kendall.
ISBN: 9781925430073 (paperback : A-format edition)
Series: Kendall, L. J. Leeth dossier ; Vol 2.
Subjects: Magic--Fiction.
Fantasy fiction.
Science fiction.
Dewey Number: A823.4
But I found your article helpful and very informative - thank you!
M.A. wrote: "Luke wrote: "If you're in the US, you're advised to get a Library of Congress Catalog Number... I'm speaking of obtaining a Cataloguing-in-Print number from your national body. This number is used ..."I find this info about buying CIP data being a scam very disturbing. I read through your blog posts, thank you for posting this helpful information. I almost paid $80 to get this for my first book. Glad I hesitated! There are so many scams about self-publishing, it's unbelievable and writers need to be diligent about every step of the process.
Thank you!
Luke wrote: "Also, in Australia, just from my own observation it seems that each book/format gets its own individual CIP, rather than the CIP listing each format and its ISBN"Each country used to produce slightly different CIP data blocks, but are now moving toward a single system, the Resource Description and Access (RDA) system. Canada has already adopted it; the Library of Congress has been phasing it in; I don't know where Australia is in their progress toward the RDA but I do believe they are a member state. As one can see from the block you provided, Australia currently provides significantly less information in their CIP than what is found in the RDA.
Note, however, that there is usually more information found in the registry than what is in the CIP data block: the author's full name and nationality, for example, and the book's physical dimensions. This information is provided to the registry at different stages of publishing and forms part of the information a librarian will find when they search the registry for the full CIP record.
In the RDA, each format's ISBN is included in the data block (this way one can see at a glance what formats the book has been published in), and each format (print and electronic) has its own control number and a separate entry in the national registry. You will see in the example provided in the blog that there are two control numbers; one is for the print book and one is for the ebooks (the registry lumps all ebook formats into one entry).
The rationale is that the publisher no longer has to acquire different CIP blocks for each format when those formats are published simultaneously: one combined CIP block is put in both the print and electronic books.
When new formats are published later, the publisher informs the registry and the new ISBNs are added in the registry data, but a new CIP block is not necessary because the rest of the data does not change. If a publisher wants a new CIP block that includes the new formats, the original can be updated to include the new ISBNs and the additional control numbers, and sent to the publisher. The new block can then be used both for the new format and also in new printings of the previously published formats. Usually, however, the later formats do not include a CIP data block because librarians likely already have the first format (usually the hardcover) already in their system. If they don't, they can still search the national registry for the book and will find the data block for the earlier formats.
The author's year of birth is included for two reasons: 1) to differentiate between authors with the same name; and 2) because when the author dies, the death is also added, providing data to aid in determining when the work will become public domain.
Michelle wrote: "I find this info about buying CIP data being a scam very disturbing. I read through your blog posts, thank you for posting this helpful information. I almost paid $80 to get this for my first book. Glad I hesitated! There are so many scams about self-publishing, it's unbelievable and writers need to be diligent about every step of the process."
You're welcome. Where there is misinformation, coupled with anxiety, there is a doorway for scammers. There was one guy, on another forum for self-publishers that I belong to, who was advertising himself as a self-publishing consultant but who was also selling PCIPs. Well, if he knows the industry well enough to call himself a consultant, then he knows what a scam a PCIP is. But, heh, there's money to be made!
What I also find particularly disturbing is the way vanity publishers are pushing the LCCN thing, and offering a paid service to indie authors to acquire one. Since vanity publishers are barred from the CIP program, they have to go through the PCN program too, so paying one to acquire an LCCN for you is of no more consequence than you doing it yourself. And as the blog posts conclude, there is little point in actually acquiring an LCCN because it is no guarantee a CIP block will be produced.
M.A. wrote: "Gippy wrote: "Roxanne, I went with expanded distribution with Createspace when my book came out. If I want to go with Ingram, can I first have the expanded distribution removed? Thanks so much! "..."
Thanks for responding, M.A. Great information! I appreciate it.
M.A. wrote: "Gippy wrote: "I don't understand it they are printing my book on demand, why can't they just 'lighten' the cover without totally re-doing it?..."It is because they are POD that they cannot simply..."
WOW! That is such great information, M.A. Thank you again. You are saving me so many more hours trying to get to the bottom of it all! So, I will have my graphic artist lighten what he should still have in his computer and send the new cover to CS. So easy!!! Thank you so much!
Gippy wrote: "M.A. Thank you again. You are saving me so many more hours trying to get to the bottom of it all!..."You're welcome. It's what I try to do with my blog and my book, The Global Indie Author: Your Guide to the World of Self-Publishing , now in its third edition (and updated on my blog because no book can keep pace with the constant changes in this industry). The book arose out of my early experiences, all the mistakes I made because of lies, misinformation (not all deliberate, mostly from other badly informed indie authors) and my own inexperience. It was a baptism of fire that I've been trying to save other indie authors from ever since. But I don't sell hype, I sell information, and hype is sexier and sells waaay better. Sigh.
Gippy wrote: "So, I will have my graphic artist lighten what he should still have in his computer and send the new cover to CS. "When evaluating the work of your designer or comparing it to the final printed product, the other thing to remember is that the likelihood of your monitor being properly color calibrated is slim to none (monitors that can be calibrated are expensive).
This means that your monitor likely has its own color shift, which will distort the appearance of the colors in your cover when you look at it on screen.
Simply put, if your designer has a color-calibrated monitor, and you do not, what you see and what your designer see will be two different things. If your designer does not have a color-calibrated monitor, your designer should quit the business. :-)
Luke wrote: "Here are some notes I made for my blog, last year. In summary, you can do that yourself, and it's only a matter of filling out some online forms:If you're in the US, you're advised to get a Libra..."
This is good information, Luke, but I'm trying to find out how one gets an LCCN number from the Library of Congress in the U.S. 'after' publishing a book (a few months later). I want to get my books into libraries local and around the world. My local library never asked about that number. They ordered my book in ebook for their readers and I suppose went through Ingram who also has my book. But, my understanding is that some of the bigger, well-known libraries around the country will want the LCCN number to be in there. Any suggestions? Thanks.
Ken wrote: "Gippy wrote: "In reference to your cover changes with CreateSpace, your ISBN is with them or did you purchase your own?..."I have an ISBN with Createspace and another ISBN with Lulu, both supplie..."
Interesting. I didn't know that either. Thanks, Ken.
M.A. wrote: "Gippy wrote: "Heidi, since you brought this up, I'm wondering if, when you went through CreateSpace for publishing, did you get into the Library of Congress? I just discovered that they didn't do t..."Wow again. You are blowing me away, M.A. I'm so excited that you are sharing all of this. I've been going crazy with these issues. Thank you so very much. I have all the answers just from this group tonight--questions I've spent months trying to get answered. I'm so grateful! I can now move ahead with the libraries as I think they are a good source on getting my name out, and many of them have book clubs and groups. I had a great time when my local library asked me to come to the book club meeting after they read my book. Best experience I've had yet! Thanks again, M.A.
Gippy wrote: "I'm trying to find out how one gets an LCCN number from the Library of Congress in the U.S. 'after' publishing a book (a few months later). I want to get my books into libraries local and around the world. My local library never asked about that number. They ordered my book in ebook for their readers and I suppose went through Ingram who also has my book. But, my understanding is that some of the bigger, well-known libraries around the country will want the LCCN number to be in there...."You cannot get an LCCN after publication unless the Library of Congress decides to catalogue your book, which they will if it proves popular enough (in that case you don't have to apply; the Library just does it because it can).
But you've answered your own question, really: your library never asked for it. Because they don't need it to buy or loan your book. As for the "big" libraries around the country, no difference. If they, or their patrons, want your book, the library will buy it, LCCN or not. And you may recall from the blog post that once a library has catalogued your book, they put it up on the OCLC, so any other librarian can find the entry there and copy it if they so wish.
As I said in the blog, what the LOC catalogues is of less consequence to a library's choice for acquisition than other more important criteria: "librarians make their selections based on perceived need or popularity, peer recommendations, patron requests (a key metric), and the library’s public policy." When I lived in Vancouver, the library there had a strong policy for including works by local writers, even graphic novels that were no more than pages stapled together. There were some really interesting works in there that one wouldn't think you'd find in a library.
One of the biggest metrics is patron requests: if several people request a book, and the library can afford and find it, they will buy it. And if it sounds really interesting, the library will search far and wide for it. Vancouver Library was known to buy books from second hand bookstores if a book was out of print, from online dealers, from Chapters and Amazon, from local bookstores, direct from publishers (through their sales reps, who make appointments to pitch to acquisition librarians), et cetera. It's a myth that libraries only buy from established library distributors.
The only limitation is the rule that a library must buy within their jurisdiction if the book is available there; for example, a Canadian library cannot buy from Amazon U.S. if the book is available from a Canadian distributor or from a retailer in Canada. But if no one in Canada has the book, then the library is free to buy from wherever they want. It has to do with territorial sales rights and legislation that surrounds that.
I knew nothing about CIP etc so this is very useful
Thank you all for this awesome thread!! I really appreciate all of the responses to my questions as well as the questions of all the other indie authors.
I just applied for my CIP data! And I am going to use that ingram spark coupon to set up my title soon!
Ken, you MUST change the ISBN when you publish a second edition with added c..."
Only 3 paperback copies of the 1st edition of this book were ever sold. I have one, and a friend of mine has one. One actual customer bought the third. It's highly doubtful that any used copies of the 1st edition will ever will be a problem.