Hobb-A-Long Read-A-Long discussion

So far this is my favorite Robin Hobb book. All the characters grew so much in this trilogy (besides Kyle). I'm so excited to see where the best trilogy goes. I'll admit I figured Amber out early on but ask the hints in the discussions for the other two books may have helped me to that conclusion too. All the women stood out so much in this book. I can't gush enough about this book and the whole trilogy.

I loved all 3 books, I could not put them down. I loved the writing style and how the story unfolded.

Hands down my favourite robin hobb book, loved this one. All the characters have grown so much and show such a better understanding of their world than before, the series has more room for exploration of social norms than the Farseer trilogy (in my opinion), and it was so nice having the extra perspectives!

I enjoyed this trilogy sooooo much more than the Farseer one, although I have to say that I perfer Mad Ship just a bit.
I am again not that much of a fan of the ending, even though a lot happened it feels just a bit anticlimactic again. For me it felt like, while regaining Vivacia would be a big part of the story, the climax would be the Serpents returning but, like in the Farseer trilogy, the part of the ending that I was most excited about was the one that was retold. I also feel a bit disappointed that Althea didn't get Vavacia.
The biggest problem I have with this ending is the way Althea dealt with the rape. What happened to Serilla was much worse and she managed to get a grip on her life again (of course we don't know how she deals with men and romance). I would have much prefered, instead of Paragon taking Althea's pain, if she had just told Brashen. The wouldn't have had to figure everithing out right a way but I think a kind of "we'll figure it out along the way and work on it toghether" ending would have been much better, even though it wouldn't have been as happy and perfect.
Robin Hobb's endings seem to be very melancholic. It seems like everything is a happy ending, Althea has Brashen, Malta and Reyn are together, Wintrow and Etta are getting closer and Keffira and Ronica seem to work on rebuilding Bingtown. At the same time they are all separated and are going their own way which kind of makes me sad.
The character developement of all the major characters was crazy and I fell in love with almost all of them, especially Althea, Brashen, Etta, and Amber (I prefer her to the Fool, whch I know is strange to say)
Amber is going back, probably to Fitz, and we still don't know if she's a man or a woman, which I really enjoy.
I really don't want to go back to the six duchies I just prefer all the characters in this trilogy and don't want to leave them.

Sarah wrote: "I enjoyed this trilogy sooooo much more than the Farseer one, although I have to say that I perfer Mad Ship just a bit.
I am again not that much of a fan of the ending, even though a lot happened ..."

Sarah, your way of handling the resolution of Althea talking to Brashen about what Kennit did to her is precisely how it should have been handled; the manner in which it actually was treated in the book was entirely too pat and neat, and doesn't realistically portray how victims of sexual assault struggle( often for months or years) to reconnect emotionally with their loved ones after their traumatic experience.

What a great trilogy. I, like Sarah, preferred this trilogy over The Farseer trilogy. Hobb was able to draw me in and develop such a deep connection with the characters. I had very strong feelings, whether good or bad, about the characters in this series.

My favorite things about this trilogy were the gradual building of the dragon lore and learning about what the liveships and wizardwood really were. I loved the scenes were Vivacia and Paragon became awakened to their dragon selves, and I thought the merging of the dragon personalities withe liveship personalities was masterfully done. I loved that in the end, the liveships became their own entities, able to make decisions independent of the humans around them.

Paragon and Kennit's storyline regarding their relationship, why Paragon was driven mad, the way Kennit was trying to deposit his unwanted memories into Paragon to escape the past, and how that all came full circle was superb.

This series was a grand tale of incredible character growth. I don't think I have EVER read a series where almost every, single character grows by leaps and bounds. The growth was not all "positive", but more realistic in that some of it came from painful experiences and failures. It wasn't just people gaining new skills, it was people gaining a greater perspective on life, learning that they're not always right, learning to trust, and becoming a better version of themselves.

The only thing I can really say that I just didn't like at all was the unnecessary rape of Althea. In my opinion, it did not add to the overall storyline. Kennit was never dealt with for his crime, it did not add to Althea's character growth, and the underlying message about how rape was handled turned me off quite a bit.

Other than that, this was a fantastic series that increased my regard for Hobb as a writer by leaps and bounds. There were so many messages I was able to glean about the human spirit, social issues, spirituality, and more in this series. It really was a fantastic reading experience. I am looking forward to seeing where she takes us next in the Tawny Man trilogy.

Sarah wrote: "I enjoyed this trilogy sooooo much more than the Farseer one, although I have to say that I perfer Mad Ship just a bit.
I am again not that much of a fan of the ending, even though a lot happened ..."

OMG - I agree with pretty much every single thing you have said here. I feel the same way about Hobb's endings. To me, they are her weakest writing point. She does a good job of tying all the loose ends together, but the endings always feel very hollow. There never seems to be a feeling of overall victory or triumph or even just satisfaction.

As I've already said a couple times on these boards, I didn't like the way the rape was handled at all. I think that is the only thing that Hobb just completely botched in this otherwise wonderful series. I absolutely LIVED for Keffria's character growth and I am so glad that Kyle was killed in the end. I was cringing when Brashen and Amber released him from the island. I did not want his insanity to set Keffria back when she had come so far.

I too prefer the characters in Bingtown, The Rainwilds, and even Jamalia over those in the Six Duchies. Somehow this world seems so much more lush, vibrant, and interesting than the Six Duchies. However, I am very curious to see how Hobb's writing of that world has improved now that I've seen what she can do with The Liveship Trilogy.

FrankieReads wrote: "Sarah wrote: "I enjoyed this trilogy sooooo much more than the Farseer one, although I have to say that I perfer Mad Ship just a bit.
I am again not that much of a fan of the ending, even though a..."

Yes! Keffira turned from one of my least favourite characters into one of my favourites. I would have loved it though if she and Althea had a conversation about the rape (even though she is the last person Althea would talk to), I think it would have been a great chance fo her to redeem herself, for the way she treated Althea when she was younger.
I am happy Kyle died but I have to say that I would have been a little bit interested in seeing how Malta and Keffira meeting him again would have played out. They both still love him but they changed so much.

The first 300 pages of Ship of Destiny started things so well that I thought it was going to be my favorite Robin Hobb book! Then things started to plateau, mainly I think because of too many political discussions and meetings and a lot of pointless meandering around by characters on floating boats( like Malta and the Satrap, or everyone on the Paragon), who don't seem to have any strong plotline to drive their motivations. I got tired of pretty much all the characters about halfway through, and I think that's because their development was more or less complete at this point, and maybe 200 pages could have been found to cut and streamline the narrative.

I also feel sucker-punched by two chapters in the second half of the book: When Keffria packed off Selden to go live with Jani Khupris, I just washed my hands of her right then. This woman has failed to be there for her children every time, and you can't blame it on Kyle anymore! And just when I thought that what I had feared might happen to Althea throughout the series( going back to her time on the slaughter ship) was going to be safely avoided, her rape was callously perpetrated by Kennit. I suppose this was put in to establish once and for all the villainy and treachery of Kennit's character so that his eventual demise would not make readers mourn; but this was really unnecessary and occurs too late in the book for a reader to recover and proceed to the books climax.

For that matter, the big battle action climax is too long, has too many lulls, happens in a far too contrived matter( How, in open ocean, does the Vivacia, the Jamaillian warships, the Paragon, and Tintaglia all happen to come together at the same time?), and depends on an incredible blunder by Kennit to not safeguard the Satrap from being seized by the Jamaillians.

However, it would have been a great opportunity for the author to give Althea her revenge: Imagine if in all the chaos and mayhem on the Jamaillian ship, Althea found herself face to face with Kennit and said something like: "Hello! I am Althea Vestrit! You violated me! Prepare to die! (Princess Bride reference!) and then takes her sword and skewers him like a stuck pig! That would be so much more satisfying than it was written!

But the last three chapters that end the book are where this ship sinks for me( You see what I did there!)! The whole raison d'etre for Althea's storyline has been for her to become a strong, independent woman, and regain her family's liveship, hopefully as captain; what she got was having to play second fiddle to Brashen on Paragon, which now has incorporated the blood essence of her rapist so that in consequence Kennit will always be a part of that ship and ever present in Althea's life. How is she supposed to sleep at night!

Maybe you could argue that Althea at twenty is also too young to have captained the Vivacia, but look who actually is getting to be it's captain: her fifteen-year old nephew(and frankly, Wintrow has no business being captain of a pirate vessel. It's one thing for Kennit to pretend to be Sa's instrument and totally another to actually try to serve Sa and run a pirate ship. There's a lot of dirty work and diabolical goings-on aboard these ships, and if Wintrow scruples not to do evil when the job requires it of him, he will soon have his throat cut by greedy crewman and tossed over as serpent food)! So much for this book giving us a proto-feminist heroine that can succeed at a man's game! Maybe instead it should have been written about Althea's great-grandmother who bought and captained Vivacia originally!

Malta, the brilliant fourteen-year-old diplomat that she is, is herself beholden to her betrothed, Reyn whose power and affluence keep her from being a penniless Bingtown trader's daughter; that's hardly being strong and independent! Her mother and grandmother are left all alone in Bingtown, sure to become passionless drones amidst the ruins of their family manor, their children and future grandchildren to be raised in a strange land! Keffria does get a sinecured employment from representing the Rain Wilds, but that's owing to the fact she has effectively mortgaged two of her children to a prominent Rain Wild's family, and is likely perceived as being easily manipulated and weak by her employers. And Serilla is left begging for work at the end, and is stuck with the prospect of being an ambassador for the Satrap who gave her over to that Chalcedean sea captain!

Virtually all the men we care about( Brashen, Wintrow, Selden, Reyn, Grag) would consider themselves to be masters of their own destiny by the end of the book. The only candidate for being a strong, independent woman worthy of this trilogy's reputation at the end is-----Amber!!!!

John wrote: "The first 300 pages of Ship of Destiny started things so well that I thought it was going to be my favorite Robin Hobb book! Then things started to plateau, mainly I think because of too many polit..."

It's so annoying that none of the goals of the characters were finished (except maybe for Brashen being a captain). Althea didn't get the ship, Ronica couldn't really save her family, Malta and Keffira didn't get Kyle back, Wintrow didn't return to the monastery and not even Kennit wa able to realize his dream. I think that's what annoys me most about this book, it didn't end up where it promised to be going at the beginning.

Samantha wrote: "John wrote: "The first 300 pages of Ship of Destiny started things so well that I thought it was going to be my favorite Robin Hobb book! Then things started to plateau, mainly I think because of t..."

As much as you have sung the praises of Fool's Fate, I wasn't about to bail just yet :)

John wrote: "The first 300 pages of Ship of Destiny started things so well that I thought it was going to be my favorite Robin Hobb book! Then things started to plateau, mainly I think because of too many polit..."

Ok - first let me slow clap it out for this amazing recap. Yes, yes, and yes again to so many of your points here. Just so you know I'm posting a video re: my thoughts on this trilogy and I would LOVE if you would come over and share some of your thoughts in the comments section of the vid. I have so many freakin' feelings about this trilogy!!!

FrankieReads wrote: "John wrote: "The first 300 pages of Ship of Destiny started things so well that I thought it was going to be my favorite Robin Hobb book! Then things started to plateau, mainly I think because of t..."

I would love to see your video, Frankie! Thank you for inviting me! I was looking over my review yesterday and realized I was probably too negative in tone when overall I just felt a bit "meh" because of the ending(s). Hopefully seeing your opinions expressed personally can enhance my appreciation of the book :)

I uploaded a review of the whole series on my youtube channel :)
://youtube.com/watch?v=Lpngv5AUdNA

I'm a week late for this, but here it goes.

This is hands down my fav book so far, second would be Assassins Quest, even though they are massive books and could have been shortened a bit, here is where Hobb's writing is brilliant. She will take whatever she has built her character into and break then in your face and it will physically hurt you lol. I found myself rooting a bit for Kennit at the end until he was killed. We all though Althea was untouchable and could protect herself from anything, she got raped (no one could have defended them self against that).

This book had a lot of revealing things about the magic systems that's why it's my #1 so far. I really though Malta was going to end in some position of power, but so far she's the character that was most connected to the magic of the dragon (and Reyn too).I love that they are the new Elderlings and are in charge of restoring the dragons to the world.

As far as Wintrow, I really though he would end as an adviser or maester type, not as a politician in a position of power, and possibly Paragon's step dad.

The politics in the book where a bit complicated at first but then I grasped the colony type dynamics that the Satrapy in Jamalia had over Bingtown and the Rain Wilds, but was and intriguing part of the book as well.

As soon as Paragon said wooden crown with chickens I said " The Rooster Crown!!!!! holy fuck!!!". Btw when Paragon said that humans lives are so short and they couldn't change the course of history I was like "WRONG MY FRIEND TOTALLY WRONG!" and the Amber agreed with him, "YOU ARE WRONG TOO!"

All in all this was a pretty awesome trilogy but I'm glad we are going back to Fitz and the Fool, I really miss those guys!!

Abner wrote: "I'm a week late for this, but here it goes.

This is hands down my fav book so far, second would be Assassins Quest, even though they are massive books and could have been shortened a bit, here is ..."

About Wintrow, I'm always going to wonder what would have happened if Bolt and Kennit hadn't fixed everything( but the missing finger) on him after his misadventure on the Other's island. It would have been really interesting to see Keffria's reaction to the slave tattoos and body damage that he had sustained; then confront Kyle about them. It would have been epic!

Also, my pet theory on Amber back in Ship of Magic had been that she was a piece of walking wizardwood that had been carved originally to be a ship's figurehead, and had for some reason had legs carved for as well. I knew there was going to be a crossover from the Farseers trilogy eventually, but I didn't expect it until the end of Ship of Destiny, so when I found out who Amber really was, and hiding in plain sight all this time, I groaned ohhhhhh---nooooo!, then confirmed everything in AQ. Hahaha!

John wrote: "Abner wrote: "I'm a week late for this, but here it goes.

This is hands down my fav book so far, second would be Assassins Quest, even though they are massive books and could have been shortened a..."

This theory on Amber/Fool, there's something to it, but what I think is that he may have some dormant gene that provides him with a unique kind of magic. As the fool grows into his own and seems to go through changes unlike livehsips I don't think that completely true. How ever I like that both serpents/dragons and humans have their white prophets, it's maybe a coincidence but not entirely sure. It makes me wonder if the Fool prophecies have something to do with dragon memories. I don't know but I can't wait to finish this whole saga, I'm dreading the Rain Wild chronicles, hopefully I enjoy them or this is gonna be one looong ass read a long lol!

Abner wrote: "John wrote: "Abner wrote: "I'm a week late for this, but here it goes.

This is hands down my fav book so far, second would be Assassins Quest, even though they are massive books and could have bee..."

Oh, no, no, no! My wizardwood theory about Amber has been dead and discredited since I got spoiled about Amber being the Fool back in July.

Finally finished (classes set me back a bit), hopefully someone can reply to this. Some discussion points:

1) Overall wonderful trilogy. I've never read a series with so much character depth, and although the books tend to drag on, it does a good job painting the picture.

2) I am disappointed that Wintrow became corrupt and veered off his dreams of being a peaceful individual devoted to Sa. He was my favorite character and I enjoyed his evolution, but always thought he'd get back on track to his monastery.

3) I wish we had more details of Kennit's youth. So much of it was implicit and vague. He was sexually abused, but I needed more information, especially with his relationship to Paragon to truly assess him and his motivations. How did Igrot even get Paragon if it was Ludlucks? Why did Igrot treat him so poorly in the first place; does it just become cyclical? So many unanswered questions, especially when I've heard in interviews that Kennit is Hobb's favorite villain. I honestly though Kennit would be a protagonist in the story, especially when you compare him with the likes of Kyle and Igrot.

4) I was a fan of Serilla's while she served Cosgo, but once she arrived in Bingtown she turned evil! I wanted so much to like her and her passion and intellect, but for some reason she treated everyone so poorly - surely it wasn't just the rape...

5) I wonder if the Red Ship Raiders use liveships???

6) All of the serpent scenes/chapters seemed convoluted to me (not sure if she was aiming for that) but I never anchored the names or genders of the serpents and just got everything mixed up. Those chapters were a chore to plow through.

7) I would have liked to have known what become of Divvytown in Kennit's absence. And what about Etta's child Paragon? Will Wintrow and Etta become a couple? There is plenty of potential to write another trilogy.

Ben wrote: "Finally finished (classes set me back a bit), hopefully someone can reply to this. Some discussion points:

1) Overall wonderful trilogy. I've never read a series with so much character depth, and ..."

To answer your questions about Kennit, Igrot captured Paragon and kept Kennit and a prisoner to bend Paragon to his will, hence why Kennit has the signs of an abused person (not to mention sexually abused). Kennit died twice and Paragon revived him with his dragon magic (unknowingly). That's why i think Kennit lacks a little morality even though he pretends to have it to manipulate people (hence why he was able to convince Wintrow of MANY things). Paragon absorbed part of this pain with him and hence why Paragon had no regard for anyone or anything. At the end Kennit committed the horrible act of rape because of this lack of morality, that's why paragon went to Althea and told her you have something of mine, that horrible feeling and emotions Althea had where a consequence of Paragon's doing in the end.

I suspect we are going to know what happened to the characters although little by little, in the last 2 trilogies.

Abner wrote: "Ben wrote: "Finally finished (classes set me back a bit), hopefully someone can reply to this. Some discussion points:

1) Overall wonderful trilogy. I've never read a series with so much character..."
Thanks for the info! I remember reading about Igrot capturing Paragon and Paragon reviving Kennit; must have slipped my mind. Was there any explanation for Igrot's ways? Or are we to assume that he's just evil? Onto Fool's Errand...