Catching up on Classics (and lots more!) discussion

September is upon us, and it's time to wander from France to England with Fanny Burney in her magnum opus The Wanderer: or, Female Difficulties.

The book is divided into 5 volumes, and we are taking it at a slow stroll at one volume per fortnight. I was thinking that we should keep it spoiler free, in the sense that we discuss freely the volume we're on, and preceding volumes, but no commenting on later volumes until we all get to them. So for the next two weeks, it's volume one. Of course, if it turns out to be a speedier read than expected, or one of the volumes is a lot shorter than the rest, we can move on as soon as we're all ready (but no pressure). I don't imagine there will be too many of us, so it should be easy enough to keep track of if we all check in. Sound good?

I'll spend a couple of days actually reading vol. 1, and then I'll try to maybe post some comments or questions to spur your interest. Hopefully those of us who expressed an interest in the buddy read will find the time and inclination to give it a go!

Can't believe it's September, but I am in for this!

I really appreciate going at this pace. My biggest concern is I couldn't find a hard copy. I get easily distracted with audio, and I spend so much time on screens that I do most of my reading with paper books whenever possible. But I found an online version that is really nice, and I like the LibriVox audio too.

I read the first few chapters and it should be pretty smooth. I like it already! I may not have a chance to read much for the next week or so, but I'll catch up after that.

Getting back to this after not being able to read for a while. I'm in chapter 8, and was curious about the reference to Rosamund's Pond. After a little searching, I found interesting info here: http://slightlyintrepid.blogspot.com/...

Maybe people who've read Fanny Burney before might recognize this, but I'd never heard it.

That's very interesting indeed! Like you, I haven't had much reading time lately, (or I have just felt too tired to read) so I haven't even reached chapter 8 yet, but now I'm intrigued! I'll catch up!

I wasn't aware of Rosamund's Pond, that was quite fascinating, thanks for posting the link!

I have now read the first ten chapters, and I'm thoroughly enjoying it. I'm impressed by the first few chapters, and how Burney does the balancing act of showing the British upper classes at their best and worst. Or rather, how their perceived superiority manifests itself sometimes in magnanimity that eschews gratitude and other times in a racist and classist attitude that all others are beneath them. Considering the political relations between France and Britain at the time of writing, Burney is really walking a tightrope! I was somewhat disappointed when Incognita revealed her nationality, but I suppose having her be a French creole would have made it too much of an uphill struggle to win sympathy for her from English readers. Also, I think there's an added amusement in seeing how the fellow passengers so utterly fail to recognise one of their "superior" own because they cannot look past appearances.

And after that the mystery continues, we get to know all the (other) characters and get more hints about what should be blindingly obvious regarding Incognita, but no hints as to why she is hiding and what from. (I am, however, guessing a husband is involved.)

What will happen next? Surely Incognita cannot be waiting five whole volumes for the right letter to appear? And won't someone please put a stop to the planned marriage of that utterly immature child to that utter cad Ireton!

I feel a bit sad that modern entertainment does not tend to include people putting together their own amateur theatre troupes. I looked up the play they are rehearsing, and found the following information (further strengthening my belief that Incognita is fleeing from a husband):

The Provoked Husband originated as an unfinished three-act comedy fragment by John Vanbrugh, titled A Journey to London. The play would have followed on Vanbrugh’s earlier Restoration comedies, The Relapse (1696) and The Provoked Wife (1697). The latter considered the options of a wife trapped in an abusive marriage, who might consider leaving it or taking a lover, and outraged some sections of Restoration society. Vanbrugh had intended that A Journey to London would further question traditional marriage roles, and end with a marriage falling irreconcilably apart. After Vanbrugh's sudden death, his colleague Colley Cibber completed the manuscript, under the title of The Provoked Husband (1728). Cibber however gave it a happy ending, in which the irascible wife repents and is reconciled to her husband – quite the opposite of what Vanbrugh intended.


I also found a link to the play! Though I'm not sure I'm interested enough to suffer through the old fashioned font!

https://scholarship.rice.edu/handle/1...

Leni wrote: "I feel a bit sad that modern entertainment does not tend to include people putting together their own amateur theatre troupes. I looked up the play they are rehearsing, and found the following info..."

Leni! I'm not going to read all of this yet because I'm not done with the play part. But I had the exact same thought of wishing home theatrics was still a thing. It reminded me of Mansfield Park, and Little Women, and probably lots of others I can't think of now. I guess we have Mystery Dinner Theatre but blech! This sounds like so much more fun. Ah for the time and lack of distractions of this era...

I'm not completely done with the play part either. The actual performance is yet to come!

Ok, I've just finished vol. 1. Whew, that took a turn or two! It gets highly (melo-)dramatic at the end! What a bewildering page turner.

I'll take a break here for a couple of days. Let me know when you finish vol. 1, Kathleen. I feel like I need to talk this over with someone! lol

Meanwhile I have multiple other challenge books awaiting my attention!

I just finished Volume 1 and, um, this is really good! Definitely a page-turner as you say.

I'd love to talk about his too. Two quick thoughts off the top of my head. One a joke: they used so many more words to express love than we do now!

The second I'll put in a spoiler. I don't know if anyone else is coming to this--if they don't they are missing out!

(view spoiler)[Is Elinor meant to be like a symbol of the ideas of the French Revolution? Like being in the right (her ideas of freedom), but executed in an immature/melodramatic manner? And Harleigh saying how intelligent she is, but "what can be done to save her; to recall her to the use of her reason, and the exercise of her duties?’ (hide spoiler)]

I read Mary Wollstonecraft's Mary & The Wrongs of Woman recently, and wish I'd read A Vindication of the Rights of Woman too. I guess I could try to read it along side this ...! I saw it referenced, and it was written just before the time this takes place.

Anyway, this is great fun. Looking forward to your thoughts!

Alright, I better hide all of this away in a spoiler. And I agree, hopefully the others who expressed an interest will join in!

(view spoiler)[ I was going to say "We have to talk about Elinor. Feminist prototype or cautionary tale?" (Would make a great heading for an academic essay wouldn't it?)

I really don't know what to make of her. I know that the established classes in Britain were appalled by the French revolution and terrified that it would spread to England. They didn't get around to proper reform until around 1830 (Middlemarch era). A woman taking her cue from the French revolution and starting to demand equality would be just the sort of thing that the readers would be horrified by. And, of course, we see where that thing leads! Elinor is practically ready to be shipped off to an asylum. I'm surprised no one has suggested it yet!

I also know, from reading such authors as Austen and Edgeworth, that a well bred young woman was supposed to stay pure, not just in body but in mind and heart. She was not to fall in love until a gentleman had declared his preference. Then, and only then, should she examine her heart (as well as their respective pedigrees and financial expectations) and either accept or refuse him. It is this ridiculous convention that Elinor contests. Why shouldn't a woman be allowed to fall in love, and declare it? Why should it somehow diminish her that she has feelings (you know, for a man, not just for fluffy kittens). It seems such a small thing to invoke the French Revolution and equal rights for. Of all things, that's what Elinor asks for? The right to have feelings? And yet, when you look at the discussions on first and second loves in Sense and Sensibility and the uproar over Belinda considering marriage with a man who wasn't her first crush, it makes a certain sense. Unmarried women were held to a ridiculous standard.

I also can't make out which side Burney is on in this debate. Ellis is perfect and accomplished and modest to an almost nauseating degree. (In order to ensure the reader is on her side, and believes that she is without fault or guilt where her past is concerned. But she is also Elinor's counterpart. Albert what's-his-name keep contrasting the two of them, and Ellis comes out favourably. (And Albert himself is presented as a stellar guy, so his opinion carries weight with the reader.) She is modestly unaware of anyone being attracted to her, and hasn't given romance a thought even will all the hints. Is this due to her perfect 18th century maidenly modesty, or is it because she is already married? I was sure it would be a ring she dropped in the ocean. But she is so oblivious to men and to desire that I cannot believe she has been married. Also, having her flee a bad marriage in a book written that early in the century would be really remarkable. Anne Brontë stirred up enough trouble with that a few decades later. (But maybe fleeing a French husband would be more acceptable, than fleeing an English one. :P ) Is Ellis then traditional England as opposed to Elinor's revolutionary France? I guess we won't find out before we discover Ellis' secret! (hide spoiler)]

Leni wrote: "Alright, I better hide all of this away in a spoiler. And I agree, hopefully the others who expressed an interest will join in!..."

Oh, great thoughts Leni!
(view spoiler)[Excellent academic heading. I don't know where Burney stands either. It's almost like Albert is TOO good and Elinor TOO emotional in that last bit anyway for it to not be sarcasm? You make a good point--it's just feelings she wants to be allowed, but it's like you said--cautionary tale--if this is what happens when you allow women feelings, better off keeping them buttoned up and blushing like Ellis.

I wonder if it's not a husband she's running from but a promised husband? Maybe one she wants but can't have? That would explain her naiveté maybe, but her feelings of certainty about her future?

There's plenty of time for this to unfold, but it is really interesting. Wish I knew more about this period. Your literary and historical road markers are helping lots! (hide spoiler)]

Thank you. I find that I still don't know near enough about society at that time. Would Elinor be a type the readers would recognise? Are her thoughts and actions something that was becoming, if not increasingly common, then at least not unheard of? Or was she a shock to the reader? (I don't think this needs to be hidden by a spoiler. Let's consider it a taste for those who might be lurking and are undecided about reading. This next bit, however...)

(view spoiler)[ A promised husband sounds plausible. It could have been an engagement ring she threw away. That still leaves us in "first attachment" territory, but without the stigma and scandal of divorce. Burney has already argued, through Albert, that an engagement can, and indeed should, be broken off if the attachment isn't strong enough. Even after two years!

I guess the question we must ask is, why can't Ellis call upon her family? Would they force her to go through with the marriage? Wouldn't they protect her from a wicked French man? Any alliance they have made would have been upended by the revolution anyway. This is very mysterious, and I really hope the revelation, when it comes, will be a good one! (hide spoiler)]

How are you doing, Kathleen? I've fallen behind a bit, but I'm now 60% into vol.2. I have been amused, outraged, some more outraged, and lastly, a tad confused. But immensely entertained throughout. I would forge on, but my Kindle demands charging, so I will read the rest tomorrow.

Leni wrote: "How are you doing, Kathleen? I've fallen behind a bit, but I'm now 60% into vol.2. I have been amused, outraged, some more outraged, and lastly, a tad confused. But immensely entertained throughout..."

You're ahead of me again. I always look forward to reading it, but I'm only about 40%. Not confused yet :-) Some of these people are so nasty--especially at that concert! I can't figure Riley out. I guess that means I am confused--ha! I won't be done until at least the weekend I'm afraid.

Oh, good. I don't feel bad about being behind now. lol
From 40 to 60% flew by for me. I kept thinking, "just one more chapter". It's actually sitting down to start reading that is the problem! Burney sure knows how to change the tone and pace of a story, even without much happening. At the beginning of the volume I was chuckling at (view spoiler)[ the way they were all scrambling to get rid of a perceived gold digger in their midst. Mrs. Marple must have been living an absolute nightmare. And then Ellis deciding that she must do the almost unthinkable: Get a job! Honest work that her education qualified her for, it is pointed out. And yet we are told that it was only desperation that led her to decide on such dramatic a step! It seems funny to me, but I suppose it was quite a drastic step down in society at the time. (hide spoiler)]
And then, at the party, it has definitely stopped being funny. Like you say, they are so nasty! And yet they would be appalled to think that anyone would find fault with their behaviour. They are all convinced that they are in the right. Such a total lack of empathy. With some of them because they are bigoted and convinced of their own superiority of birth and money. With others it seems a total lack of awareness that their actions and words can have consequences for others. Probably because they rarely have to face any consequences themselves.

I can't figure Riley out either. Then again, nor can any of the characters in the book! He's a bit like the main character in that way. No one knows anything about him or his family. But you don't see them demanding he make an account of himself and every detail of his pedigree! (Then again, he is able to pay his own way, even if he has modest lodgings. So no one has a claim for information as he has no need for favours.) I guess he's there to provide such a comparison with the Wanderer. At the same time he is a contrast to Mr Tedman, who is wealthy but of low birth. Tedman doesn't fit in, and he knows it. He wouldn't care, except for his daughter's ambitions. Riley seems less wealthy and even less concerned with appearances, but he acts like he has the right to be anywhere. He speaks his mind (the truth, as he sees it) regardless. The Wanderer is young, female, dependent on society. Riley is old, male, can afford to offend anyone because "society" can't do much for or to him.

Ah, yes! Great analysis Leni. I love Tedman. I didn't get he was rich until I came across his footman. Footman? I had to go back and read it again. She really is giving us a blend of types and against-types.

What I think is so striking is how much time they all have to spend on what others think. Of course I knew that, but something about seeing it play out in each of their lives is really enlightening. It struck me when I read (view spoiler)[the part where Ellis feels she has to go to church to keep up appearances, then has to leave, then gets stuck in the rain, then can't accept certain help, etc. etc. It was like every move had to be scrutinized, instead of just thinking "crap! I don't want to get wet." (hide spoiler)]

Finished Volume 2! Didn't like the end too much. (view spoiler)[I find Elinor hard to believe and a little annoying. (hide spoiler)] But I'm loving the drawn out mystery.

I had the funny realization in the middle of this one that the "female difficulties" aren't always what I expected, but are often difficulties caused by females. :-)

Look forward to your thoughts.

Kathleen wrote: "I had the funny realization in the middle of this one that the "female difficulties" aren't always what I expected, but are often difficulties caused by females. :-)"

Hah! Yes, good point.

As for the ending, (view spoiler)[ I saw on the blurb for the complete edition that Elinor is supposed to be a sort of Mary Wollstonecraft. So I was kind of hoping she would turn up again with a William Godwin! But now she is acting more like a female young Werther. And I wonder if the surgeon is tricking her? He has basically pacified her and made her follow medical advice. (hide spoiler)]

Things that confused me in this volume (in addition to Riley):
(view spoiler)[-Mr. Giles. Is he really as befuddled as he appears? He certainly sees to the core of things and cuts to the core with his words.

-The Wanderer's reluctance to perform in public. I thought it might be out of fear of being recognized, but it became clear that it was simply because being a public performer is somehow disgraceful. A fall in status. I guess public performers were prone to a certain reputation, and I can just see men lining up to fight over the right to make her their mistress. :P Becoming a public performer would seemingly remove all claim to be pure and innocent, and thereby men would assume that she should naturally want to have sex with them if they just pay her enough. It's pretty sickening! But then there's Harleigh's letter where he pretty much tells her that if she descends to a lower social class, she sets a bad precedent and risks upsetting/overturning all of society!

-Secrecy. She is drawing so much attention and gossip is flying around, so wouldn't it have been better to just confide in someone who could then vouch for her and avoid all the uproar? Harleigh points out that surely she must be taking secrecy too far, and I tend to agree. I mean, her secret had better be a good one! She acts like she is only keeping silent because she has been instructed to. The only time she appears to be afraid of recognition or pursuit is when there's talk of putting her name on the concert program. Why should that worry her when she's not using her own name? She sees someone foreign looking, and I think that finally she is worried about someone from France recognising her, but no, her worry is that this should be Elinor in disguise!
-Money. If being a public performer is so dreadful a career that she would rather mend peoples linen (how is that not a working class occupation? I mean, I know that middle and upper middle class women did needlework and painted decorative screens etc, but to do so for others for money?), wouldn't it be better to borrow money against her future ability to pay it back? Once "her people claim her" she would have the means, it seems. Then again, I suppose she would have done just that is Harleigh and Elinor married. She'd have let them lend her money that she can't accept from a Harleigh that is in love with her. (hide spoiler)]

Oh Mary Wollstonecraft! That makes so much sense now, and her over the top rantings do sound like MW's fiction I just read. And good thought about the surgeon--bet you're right.

About your spoilers:
(view spoiler)[ At first I thought of Giles like a Dickens character, but quickly noticed the difference, that Dickens bumbling characters are usually harmless. I kind of like this twist! You may be right about him, and you put it perfectly.

Yeah, Harleigh’s letter was telling. It’s like she is responsible for all future generations of any future family she may ever be associated with. No pressure there. And about the sex, I thought about that too with the money from Harleigh. It’s like taking any of it is akin to agreeing to give in to him or something (like the expectations of a dinner date?). So women and men really couldn’t be friends, as we later learned in Harry Met Sally?

And maybe it just isn’t her secret to tell. Like maybe it isn’t about her, and maybe if she tells, then, well, as you said, all of society will be overturned or something!

And the whole thing about her being afraid of Elinor is confusing to me. It’s like it’s more than that she’s just afraid she’ll kill herself.

The money part is where the character of Giles is really interesting. I loved how he pointed out that it was worse to not pay back the poor people than not pay back the rich people. Morals versus social expectations. And I think she wouldn’t have trouble taking money from Aurora or any other woman who would lend it to her. She just can’t take it from Harleigh cuz he’s a man. Did you notice how his eyes lit up when he saw she’d gotten into his money? It was like “Aha, I’ve got you now!” I mean I like Harleigh generally, but that part really showed me how tied her hands are by this social convention. He’d love for her to take it cuz then she’s beholden to him. She needs a benefactress, but most of these women are wretched so she won’t have much luck there. Oh my, oh my! (hide spoiler)]

Well, I think (hope!) that maybe both you and Ellis is wrong about Harleigh's response. (view spoiler)[ He seems so much the perfectly devoted lover and gentleman, that I don't think he would feel that she owes him anything. He is just happy that he can be of help to her, and that she trusts him enough to take/spend his money without fear that he will make any claim in return. He has hopes for the future, of course, but ultimately he doesn't want her to suffer regardless of whether she chooses him in the end.

What you say about friendship between men and women is interesting. (I hated When Harry met Sally, and I think Harry is wrong.) Ellis wants to be just friends with Harleigh, who wants to be just friends with Elinor. Harry's argument is that men will always want to sleep with women, but Harleigh, on the contrary, does desire friendship with Elinor. They are just being unfortunate that the object of friendship sees in them the object of love. (hide spoiler)]

Well I agree and also think Harry is wrong. (view spoiler)[Yes, sex and love can get in the way of friendship, but so can lots of things--doesn't mean we can't overcome them. I hope you're right about Harleigh but his response concerned me. I'm open to thinking it just gave him hope, but it didn't feel like that. (hide spoiler)]

I also think you must be right that the secret is not hers to tell, that it would place someone else in danger. That's the only thing that makes any sort of sense! Heh. Three more volumes to go, and I bet all will not be clear until the final chapter!

Pst, Kathleen, how are you doing? Our reading schedule is clearly out the window, but that's ok. lol

I only started volume 3 a couple of days ago, but I don't it will take too long. I'm almost at 40%

We finally learn the Wanderer's first name!

I'm getting a bit annoyed at the mystery though.
(view spoiler)[ She can't even tell her foster sister why she is staying incognito? I mean, this is the woman she was waiting to meet with! This just seems strange. And why was Gabrielle alone with a sick baby down in Brighton/Brightholm while her husband was in London? And why would she be there under an assumed name? Even if they've lost everything in the revolution, she's the daughter of a Marquis. You'd think that would buy her some goodwill and care for her sick child, Brightholm is full of people who suck up to anyone with a title. And then Gabrielle just goes off again? What was the point of even introducing her, she seems like an utterly redundant character! (hide spoiler)]

Other things of note so far:
(view spoiler)[ Why does it never occur to Juliet to demand payment upon delivery? I guess it just wasn't done that way. Still seems weird though. She stays in Brighton rather than go to London with Gabriella, because they have contracted work that she needs to complete. Yet that seems pointless because she hardly ever gets paid. And once that work is done, she still doesn't consider going to London. So I guess the plot requires that she stay where she is, rendering the introduction of Gabriella even more obviously pointless.

Elinor! If she hasn't died yet, she should survive. She has a spectacular rant about Female Difficulties. I think she is overly optimistic to say that if you just stop thinking of yourself as a female and start thinking of yourself as a person, then all female difficulties will vanish. Though, obviously, that's easier for her, being a woman/person of independent means. Everything is easier with money. As for much of the rest of what she's saying, however, I'm siding with her. Juliet has a ridiculously overblown sense of decorum and modesty etc etc. I get the sense that Burney sees things the way Juliet does, or at least expects the readers to do so. (hide spoiler)]

Hi! I am really behind at the moment--just a bit into Vol 3--but, I plan to get at least mostly caught up by the weekend (fingers crossed).

Yes, we've definitely made a turning point with her name. Phew!

I totally agree about Gabriella--she seems a bit stuck into the picture here. And I got the same feeling about which side Burney was on. Do you think she's being ironic though? A little?

I'll be back soon with more thoughts.

Kathleen wrote: "Hi! I am really behind at the moment--just a bit into Vol 3--but, I plan to get at least mostly caught up by the weekend (fingers crossed).
"

Hey, we seem to be keeping pace, and since it's just the two of us, we don't need to keep to the schedule. :) As long as we're done by the end of the year! lol

You know , your discussion made me want to read this too..so I downloaded it from gutenberg just now....it sounds very interesting. . Though , I think ,I will wait till I finish A Russian Journal.

Excellent! Welcome to the buddy read. And don't worry, we will still be reading this book when you've finished the Russian journal.

Yay! Glad to have you Elena, whenever you start is fine.

I am at 20% of the 1st book...and your thoughts on Elinor makes sense.She seems to demand equality.

Fanny also shows rascist attitude, bigotry,snobbery and our tendency to be susoicious of strangers .. very well..
The need to help is scorned , because she is in tattered clothes...

I've been following your discussion and had planned on reading Burney's books in order. Is that necessary? It might be a little late to jump into this one with you, but she's been on my short tbr list for a while.

This is my first Burney, even though it is her final (I believe) book. Do join us! We're only half way.

Leni wrote: "This is my first Burney, even though it is her final (I believe) book. Do join us! We're only half way."

I decided to give it a go and so far I like it. Just started chap 5. :)

So happy to see you Susan! This is my first of hers too, and I'm finding it quite fun to read.

I finished v.3 last night. I find that this part of the story could have been favourably reduced by half.

(view spoiler)[ Besides the somewhat pointless introduction of Gabriella (a letter would have sufficed to make it clear that the awaited friend had fallen on hard times), the volume is basically about the Wanderer being too gentile for work life. Or rather, she's a good worker, she's just really, really bad at getting paid. And she scorns work life, just not the work itself. She wants nothing to do with the other workers, can't join a party thrown by a wealthy farmer because country dances are too rowdy, and is ashamed to admit to the job title of "companion". She's never mean to anyone, rather the contrary, but she is hardly an egalitarian, our wanderer!

As for the rest of it, it seems that the women are either petty and malicious or too young to have much say. And the men all fancy her and are either predatory stalkers or bumbling knights-errant who make things worse by trying to help.

I rather hope that v.4 sees the Wanderer do some actual wandering, out of Brighton, rather than just wandering from house to house, job to job, and from one compromising position to the next! (hide spoiler)]

Not looking at your spoiler yet because I'm only about half way through vol 3, but I am certainly getting that same impression!

I'm glad I decided to read this. I haven't caught up yet, but am just about to the end of volume 2. I just read that dreadful scene at the concert for the blind harpist. Really enjoying it so far.

Finally finished volume 3! Phew, I liked the second half of it better than the first half, which was getting pretty darn tedious.

I agree with your spoiler thoughts, Leni. (view spoiler)[The thing that picked it up for me in the middle was Mrs. Ireton--at least she's an interesting character, always saying stuff like "I really beg your pardon, for being so uncooth, as to think of such a trumpery circumstance as saving the child’s life ..." They make a good pair. I'm beginning to think all the guys who call Juliet a prude are right. Agree with your comments about her actions so far.

This line made me think not much has changed for many women: “It was her duty to be always at hand, early or late; it was her business to furnish entertainment, whether sick or well. Success, therefore, was unacknowledged, though failure was resented. There was no relaxation to her toil, no rest for her person, no recruit for her spirits.” :-)

Yes, hopefully she'll unload to Aurora already, and actually wander somewhere more interesting in Volume 4! (hide spoiler)]

I started volume 4 at last, on the train yesterday. I think this one is a bit shorter than the others. I got to 55% in just a couple of hours.

We get action! We get tears! Lots of tears! And of course more long-winded and convoluted speech. lol And the Wanderer is of course pursued arduously in all manner of ways by well-meaning but seriously pushy men. And... and... around the halfway mark we FINALLY FIND OUT WHO SHE IS! Gabriella spills the beans. So she does serve a purpose. I still have no idea what was dropped in the ocean. And I don't quite understand the great need for secrecy, or why speaking would place others in danger, though I suppose it has to do with (view spoiler)[ needing to retrieve her parents' marriage certificate to establish her rights. And I guess Gabriella's uncle, the Bishop, must have gone somewhere he shouldn't be seen in order to find the documents. (hide spoiler)]

oh! Holding out for the spoiler until I get that far--thanks for the heads up. I'm just a few chapters into Vol 4, the part where she's surrounded by all those pushy men. And I'm about ready to wish Eleanor good riddance after this last escapade. Drama queen!

Finished Volume 4. It was a little disappointing because (view spoiler)[we get that bit of explanation and action and we start to put the pieces together, but then we realize we only know part of the story and off she goes again running away from something we don't understand. (hide spoiler)]

The plot of this is pretty annoying, the way it drags out the reveal of this info. I'm getting the feeling though that the point is for her to experience lots of diverse difficulties so her own female difficulties don't seem as great in comparison? Her being on the run does let us explore people in many different situations of the time, and that part is interesting.

I only just finished vol. 4. When I sit down to read, I plow through chapter after chapter, and I thoroughly enjoy the language and the observations. But once I put it down the repetitive (with variations) and drawn out plot makes me in no hurry to pick it back up again. Just one more to go now, at least. We can do this by the end of the year!

I think you are right that the mystery is mainly a pretext for getting her out and about. It's quite the coming of age story, really! We get to see every part of society, rich nobility, impoverished nobility, middle class, trades people, farmers, urban and rural workers. And with it our wanderer gains perspective, and some hard won insights. But I still wonder what explanation the author can possibly offer for all the secrecy. (view spoiler)[ Why can't even Gabriella be told? What could make Juliet so scared that she flees and runs around the countryside like a headless chicken? You'd think she feared that someone would drag her back to France and march her up to the guillotine. And if that actually is the case, wouldn't it be ever so much better to accept the protection of a wealthy elderly nobleman? Rather than risk being cornered by her pursuers out in the middle of nowhere, with no one to help her? She should be gathering support against whats-his-name, the uncle of Aurora and Lord Melbury. Keeping quiet and running around the country at risk of accident or assault serves absolutely no purpose that I can guess at. (hide spoiler)]

Vol.5 had better make some sense of this! I might try to get through it in the next couple of days.

I started vol. 5 last night. Was just going to read a chapter or two to see what direction it was headed. But after the first chapter it went in to pure adrenaline rush and full disclosure! I finally hit a lull at 30% so I could go to bed. Just the resolution left now, and whatever inconsequential filler material Fanny Burney has squeezed into the last 100 or so pages. ;)

I plan to start Vol 5 this weekend. We WILL finish this before the end of the year! Even more excited after your comment, and maybe she'll surprise us with those last 100 pages. :-)

Well, from 30-50 % was kind of long winded. Lol. But then it picks up again. I'm hoping to finish this weekend.

I am done! Whew. I have to say it turned into a bit of a soap opera at the end. I went through some outrage at what women were supposed to endure in the name of duty, delicacy, and religion (seriously, the appeals to religion were getting on my nerves). (view spoiler)[ Harleigh all but told Elinor "take thee to a nunnery!" And both he and several others were ready to send Juliet off with an abusive husband that she was clearly terrified of, because what God has wrought no man should sunder, or some such sentiment. Even though it was clear that the marriage was forced! Only the fact that she hadn't spoken her vows and that it had been a civil ceremony saved her. (hide spoiler)] But eventually I just started laughing because the swooning and copious tears and general hand wringing, (or hand to forehead whilst looking deathly pale) was just getting a bit much.

I think... I've enjoyed it, but it was about 300 pages longer than it needed to be? lol And I am extremely happy not to be living at the end of the 18th century. (Or Saudi Arabia where women still have legal guardians their entire lives.)

Glad to hear it ( and read the spoilers ;) ) Leni.I will read it next year.hopefully.

Noo... you read the spoilers? lol Half the fun was trying to guess which way the mystery would twist next.

I enjoyed it too Leni and felt the same way. There were long sections that could have been cut. I was also disappointed that the one feminist in the book was made to look ridiculous. Although I don't know anything about Burney, so maybe that was her intention.