Support for Indie Authors discussion

So I've written a novel that in my mind I always thought would be geared for the older end of YA, between 16-19 and older people who read YA. My protagonists are 17. I never really set out to have profanity in it, but it happened. There isn't a whole lot, but I drop the F-bomb 3 times. My story does deal with some heavy issues, including delinquents, drugs and gangs so I decided that the honest, realistic dialogue for specific characters was not something I was wiling to do without.

I'm going Indie, so "technically" I can do whatever I want. Most likely my books won't make it to libraries because they are self-published. So I guess what I'm wondering is:

A) Should I present it as it is and see what happens? Since my target market is 16-19, it's likely appropriate enough. Parents may not be the ones making the decisions here.
B) Should I include a disclaimer, clearly stating that there is some profanity?
C) Should I have two book editions? One that includes swearing and one without?
D) A combination of A & C, present it as is. Depending on feedback, release a second edition.

I guess I struggle with this because I go down the rabbit hole of... if I censor swearing, how far do I go? Do I censor violence, even if its not graphic? Sexual tension? Where do you draw the line? Then I have to make two editions of every book in the series (I expect there will be at least 3).

I've been researching this topic quite a bit and opinions vary. I'm leaning towards A. I would like to know what others have done in this circumstance.

Swearing in a book aimed at a 16+ audience should be fine. Even a couple of F bombs. When you publish, you will have the option of setting a minimum age, so there isn't really much of a need for a disclaimer.

I struggle with this as well. My main character is 17 and drops the f-bomb a lot. I know that this won't go over well with parents or librarians. I couldn't change it about her, though; it would totally change her character.

So what I decided to do about it was this - I wrote the following dedication page: "For my mother, who always believed that I would publish a book, but never dreamed it would contain so many swear words". My preface also contains the phrase "f*** this sh**". So anyone glancing at the first few pages will know that it contains swearing. That, and the fact that it is obviously zombie fiction should keep away the helicopter parents a certain amount. After all, if you're okay with your kid reading violent zombie gore but not words that I guarantee your kid hears in school daily, the problem isn't with my book, it's with your parenting.

Heck, my SIX YEAR OLD has already brought home the eff word from school and despite the language in my book, I don't swear personally and my husband is very strict about what language we use in front of the kids. So he heard it at KINDERGARTEN. And he reports several kids in his class who use it regularly. Those words are out there, and kids use them when adults aren't around. It's just realism to include it in literature for older teens.

From my research, there's nothing prohibiting swearing in YA. It's just that a lot of the gatekeepers, like parents and teachers, won't like it.

I decided that as long as I present it as obviously for older grades, and don't hide the fact that swearing exists, anyone who is bothered by it should have considered themselves warned.

Personally, with a 16 year old daughter, she is perfectly aware of swearing and we watch movies that, apart from the States that have the MPAA at R, the rest of the world normally goes to 15 and sometimes younger. She doesn't swear at home - and nor do my wife & myself.

I would suggest that in the age range being tabled, if it's just the protagonists that are swearing, then it's realistic. If the protagonists were saying "I say old chap, I jolly well don't agree with you" that it would completely false and the readers would probably reject the book...

The Hunger Games had no profanity even though the characters were in extreme situations so it can be done. Having said that i don't have a problem with profanity in YA when it would be stranger to leave it out than put it in. Sometimes there is only one realistic response a character is going to have in a situation.

Just make sure the story is made better by the cursing. Sometimes swearing will make the reader drop out of the story.

There are some interesting perspectives on this.

I'm targeting a general, broad audience, so I deliberately minimise profanity. The guide I use is actual TV/Movies in the DC/Marvel universes.

Sometimes I'll use an acronym like "WTF?", or FUBAR, that has an F-Bomb in it and I think that is kinda a pass.

I'll be using "FUBAR" in my next book. In "Saving Private Ryan" they used the term and didn't bother spelling it out. I read a book with Captain Kirk using the term and when was asked what it meant, he hesitated, and decided the company he was with and said, "Fouled Up Beyond All Recognition."

I reckon if it's just x3 f-bombs you can get away with that for YA.
I'm British, and our yoof swear a lot (sweeping generalisation).

Other countries seem more sensitive to swearing.

But it's your book, your rules.
Go for it!

Morris wrote: "I'll be using "FUBAR" in my next book. In "Saving Private Ryan" they used the term and didn't bother spelling it out. I read a book with Captain Kirk using the term and when was asked what it meant..."

Exactly.

Mom always said, "If the language is part of the character, it is appropriate. If the language is gratuitous, it is not."
I'm going with Mom on this.

Sometimes your characters want to swear, and it's hard to stop them...

...but only if your characters are really alive.

TL Clark (author of love) wrote: "I reckon if it's just x3 f-bombs you can get away with that for YA.
I'm British, and our yoof swear a lot (sweeping generalisation).

Other countries seem more sensitive to swearing.

But it's yo..."

What I've found in the UK is that the swear words are used so often that they've almost become non-swear words. It's part of the language. I cringe a bit with my UK based daughters but I guess it's part of the changes in attitude that happen over the decades and centuries. As long as the use of these words are spoken as normal, everyday speech without intending to offend then we have to put up with getting old!

David Allen wrote: "Mom always said, "If the language is part of the character, it is appropriate. If the language is gratuitous, it is not."
I'm going with Mom on this."

I totally agree with your Mom. My main character is basically the only one who swears.

David Allen wrote: "...but only if your characters are really alive."

In my head they are. Welcome to my world

Jane wrote: "David Allen wrote: "...but only if your characters are really alive."

In my head they are. Welcome to my world"

My characters do unexpected stuff all the time. Sometimes it really messes up my plot.

Yeah, my characters are totally alive (in my inagination!), and like many others (I'm happy to see), they do tend to have their own ideas what they want to do/say! ;-P

C.L. wrote: "Jane wrote: "David Allen wrote: "...but only if your characters are really alive."

In my head they are. Welcome to my world"

My characters do unexpected stuff all the time. Sometimes it really me..."

Oh indeed. Sometimes you have to wrestle them back into the plot. Sometimes you can't and you hafta let them just get on with it. I currently have a heroine who is a real badass. I found myself telling her off for swearing like I'm her Mum. Totally weird...

In my contemporary YA there is a bit of swearing, but only in fitting with the character and the context, as per David Allen's mums guidelines

Also I'm an Aussie and I think we're a bit immune to coarse language. We had a whole government funded tourism campaign based around the slogan: 'where the bloody hell are ya?'

Rachel wrote: "Also I'm an Aussie and I think we're a bit immune to coarse language. We had a whole government funded tourism campaign based around the slogan: 'where the bloody hell are ya?'"

I wouldn't consider "bloody hell" even remotely coarse language, but everything is relative :)

Ahh, bloody hell, one of the rare exceptions to the rule; I think it's just us Brits who now consider this swearing, and even then it's mild.
:)

I love Aussies; just say things as it is <3

I think it's fine. If that's how the Muse responds it would feel wrong to change it, no? You have to write how you truly feel your characters would respond.
Besides, you can set the age thing, later.

Well, I admit my muse must talk to my parents. They are gone for a couple decades but that is another story.
My MC had to be a foul-mouthed soldier in the distant future.
I invented profanities for her.
Salves my conscience and allows you to call somebody a "fatherflecker!"

I never really think too much about profanity. If you find it necessary, use it. If not, then don't. My books I have published now has profanity In it and I drop the F-bomb quite a few times. The reason for it though has to do with the characters. My main character doesn't swear but some of the people around her do because they grew up with it. I think it's all the matter of how and why you wanna do certain situations.
I do have a hard time figuring out the age group though. I've read violent books where I'm thinking its for a mature audience but the author sets the age group as 14 and up. Right now, that's the age group I have right now but I'm not sure if I should change that. My books are pretty easy to read but some of the content isn't for all readers.

Haha I love all the responses. Okay, well looks like I will go with my initial plan of not censoring a thing. I agree with some of the others who mentioned the U.K. and Aussie bit. Many I've met have been very colourful with their lingo. (I'm Canadian btw)

I have a bit of swearing but I kept it to a minimum in the general dialog except when a very dramatic scene required the extra emphasis and what a normal person's verbal reaction would be.
If you were creating a very colorful character the dialog might require it. Just isn't going to come off right if you have a sailor or average blue color worker smashing their toe and exclaiming. "oh my that smarts!"

It seems like when you include even a small amount of swearing, you're guaranteed to have reviewers who will ding you on it and give you one star with a comment like, "This lovely book was ruined by foul language!"

I honestly think Amazon needs to be clearer about the profanity, sex, and violence in books... like, have mandatory disclaimers. I actually feel bad for people who hate to read about those things and can't know how much is in the book until they're actually reading it.

Annabelle wrote: "It seems like when you include even a small amount of swearing, you're guaranteed to have reviewers who will ding you on it and give you one star with a comment like, "This lovely book was ruined b..."

I think about that too. I know Amazon has a "look inside feature". I wish you could control it (through Createspace) to show as much as you would like because the first instance of profanity (in my book) actually comes very early on and I think from that point people will know right away whether they will be okay with more of it or not.

On the flip-side ... that one reviewer might rate you down but it's the reviewer that will send all the sensitive readers away and the ones who are okay with it will know what they're getting into. It's unfortunate to get one-stars but then I think I'd rather get a one-star for profanity than a one-star for bad writing/bad plot/ characters no likes etc.

I can see the merits in Amazon requiring disclaimers but there are compelling arguments against mandates too.

http://www.debate.org/opinions/should...

Decisions, decisions!