Time Travel discussion
Time Travel TV Shows
>
Timeless
date
newest »
newest »
message 51:
by
Paul
(new)
Dec 05, 2016 10:54PM
my review of 1.9 http://paullevinson.blogspot.com/2016...
reply
|
flag
Randy wrote: "Did anyone else notice that Anthony referred to Rittenhouse as "her"?"No - missed that. I've been a little suspicious of (view spoiler)
The "her" turns out to be an error...Based on the transcript (and my closed captioning), it was when Rufus and Anthony were arguing while the virus files were being deleted. Anthony says:
"You know I built the time machine, more than Mason ever did. So if Rittenhouse gets her hands on it, with what they're planning to do with it, that's on me."
I got this response on Reddit about it:
We got in contact with NBC and asked that, because one of our podcast hosts noticed that the closed-captioning said "her". But according to the scripts, it was "their". Apparently, Frewer really blew by that word. "If Rittenhouse gets 'er hand on it..."
Excellent - that at least explains why I missed it :)
As soon as they introduced the son, I knew they'd have to kill either both or none. As far as they know, it's the son that really directed the organization. And now that they've killed his father, he may turn to the "dark" side and use the organization that they have to strike back. Their actions may have created the very Rittenhouse they were trying to destroy. But, then, so could killing the boy, if the next in line is really the problem.From a time traveler's perspective, I'm not sure "erasing" people should be much of a concern. There are likely to be just as many new people to replace them. Are they any less worthy of life?
In any case, since I'm for the multi-verse theory, it will only affect the new timeline they return to. Speaking of which, will Rufus and Wyatt return to the same timeline that Lucy and Flynn did? Or just one close enough to it that they couldn't tell the difference?
Ouch. Janeway headache.
The concern about erasing people relates to the effect that has on people who have a memory of the erased people - the heartbreak that brings them. New people that didn't exist before in the memories of people with heartbreak like Lucy have no impact on that heartbreak.
Those memories only exist with the time travelers themselves. Given the changes they made to Benedict Arnold, Cornwallis, and Rittenhouse, any impact on people they know is as likely to affect them. They may even return to a future where they never existed.
And both Flynn and Wyatt have nothing left to lose. The changes they made would hardly restore anything for either of them. Flynn is delusional if he thinks simply getting rid of Rittenhouse will return his family. The changes will be enormous. EVERYTHING Rittenhouse ever did would be wiped out. That's not minor.
How about them returning to a future where the British rule? :)
Sure. But my point is that erasing people can and does have consequences for people - such as our time-travelers - who knew and remember the erased people. Therefore it's not the case that their erasure is of no consequence since they or may not be replaced by other people who didn't exist in the prior reality.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't believe the show has introduced multiple universe theory as a possible explanation. I know I've heard phrases like, alternate reality, this/that reality, etc. in the show, but I'm not aware of them discussing these realities as distinct universes. The reason I mention this is that some may perceive these "realities" to be physical universes where others may view them as theoretical timelines that either do or do not currently exist. Depending on one's view, those who have been erased may only be perceived to be missing because the time traveler is currently located in a universe where the missing person does not exist. Without multiple universes, however, the missing person may not have ever existed due to the erasure of an entire reality. In the show, the time travelers appear to be the only ones who remember the erased reality and the people in it. The others back at the lab only know of the current reality.
One of the ethical challenges to correcting the problem becomes the fact that "fixing" the timeline to something approximating its original state will require the time travelers to erase all other timelines, potentially erasing vast numbers of people in the process. While the characters on the show have only expressed concerns about accidentally affecting "hundreds of people," it seems to me that the potential collateral damage could be much larger.
I find it interesting that the characters on the show are not stopping to ask some of these questions beyond the immediate concerns for their own loved ones. I think that may say something about us.
Ubiquitous wrote: "Without multiple universes, however, the missing person may not have ever existed due to the erasure of an entire reality."The multi-verse theory is what is used to prevent paradoxes. For example, killing your own grandfather before your father is born.
Erasure of the reality doesn't get rid of the paradox. It actually creates one -- where did the time travelers come from if the reality that created them was erased?
And, as far as changes to a timeline go, how do we judge whether a timeline is improved? Snapshots at various points in time may each have better or worse results. For example, suppose Amy was crucial to WW3 happening 10 or 20 years in the future, which won't happen now because she was erased?
Ubiquitous - Lucy, as the somewhat self-appointed guardian of history, is asking some of those questions - in just about every episode.Your idea of alternate realities being perceived not real is interesting, but I'm not sure that I see the difference. Indeed, philosophers ranging from Plato to Kant have explored the extent to which our realities (independent of time travel) are in some significant part a product our perception.
Randy's explanation of the need for multiple realities is right.
Mod
3 episodes shown so far and I binged through them. Really enjoying this one, despite the demand to stretch out my suspension of disbelief a tad, in the time travel mechanisms and so far shaky rules. Its a bit loose but I love the different time period settings, the visiting notable historical events and I like the main stars who are carrying the series with far more likeability than in Travellers.
I wonder how much this series is costing because every episode is different time period so production values must be quite high, given completely new non existing environments in each episode.
so one problem I have so far (well not really a problem, just an acceptance that most time travel writing seems to avoid) is (view spoiler). This is common with most time travel stories of this nature, its ignored because it will complicate the narrative. Perhaps future episodes will address this. However, The Frequency TV series bravely addresses this issue and does it well...but in doing so, its creating a complexity that could give rise to paradoxes. Quantum Leap sort of addresses that too but its not quite the same scenario and it does so, in a straightforward way.
Anyway, really enjoying this so far, which is giving me some fond memories of watching Time Tunnel, as they visit different notable historical events each episode.
You're right about Frequency the TV series addressing these issues in full, in contrast to Timeless, which does not.
Been watching it and enjoying it. The winter hiatus has been driving me nutty. At least last week The Blacklist returned from its winter break and this coming Monday Timeless returns. YAY!
Hey it returns tonight!
here's my review of 1.11 http://paullevinson.blogspot.com/2017... especially good mix of historical characters in this episode
I'm becoming more and more disappointed with Timeless (though many thanks to the group for giving me the heads up on it - almost missed it). Seemed so promising with likeable actors, good production values, different locations. But then the usual time paradoxes started to mount up, as did the body count. (Is it really necessary to kill so many in each instalment?) Even presuming that the end of the season may have all the anachronisms cleared by stopping the theft of the ship in the first instance it still doesn't explain where all their alternative selves went. Lucy returns to find herself engaged and with evidence she lived a totally different life she doesn't remember. Would the other self have even entered the Lifeboat? What happened to that other self? The alternative parallel time tracks is becoming just too convenient (even if it was used here, which it doesn't appear to be). They could have used the alternative worlds concept but this is really just another of science fiction's 'handwavium'. (The Multiverse Theory is just that, a theory, but used so much in sci-fi people have begun to think there's some scientific fact in its existence.) Strangely Irwin Allen's (who told his writers to not get too cerebral... it was a 'jumping running show') Time Tunnel has the only practical theory. In TT it didn't matter what Doug and Tony did, time had already been written and they were already a part of it. I'll go on watching but what with plot gimmicks like Benedict Arnold's message (which we gather he will never now write) rolled up and placed in a clock (for some inconceivable reason) and the key used as a trivial episode driver I'm loosing confidence in the writing.
my reviews of 1.13 http://paullevinson.blogspot.com/2017... 1.14 http://paullevinson.blogspot.com/2017... and 1.15 http://paullevinson.blogspot.com/2017...
Ian - Excellent analysis, especially on the point of the multiverse being used as it was scientific fact. It is a scientifically plausible theory, but it is a long way for being established fact (as indeed is the case for a lot of quantum mechanics).
Have to be careful I don't read too much as in England we are just up to episode 11 (I gather your season break) and maybe the following episodes start to pull something together. I think Wells used the alternative world seriously first in Men Like Gods, certainly early 20th century. Wyndham did some excellent short stories using it, Random Quest and Consider Her Ways come to mind. I really like the idea, would love to slip into a 'Sliders' stack of universes, just I think it's been over used. And in the case of Michael Crichton (whose work I really like) completely wrong in Timeline. (The protagonists travel to another timeline based on information they left in the past in theirs, only it appears, to return to their original world at the end; even though Crichton states this isn't possible at the beginning.) Anyway, based on the good references here I'll be looking into Frequency on Netflix with hopeful fingers crossed.
Yeah, I gathered that you weren't up to episode 15, which is why I didn't comment on the specific plot points you raised.Frequency has its problems, but I still think is worth seeing.
A quick (didn't want any spoilers) look at Timeless ratings US and they seemed to have dropped dramatically. I guess for a ratings driven channel this means cancellation which is a shame because for all it's faults it does have interesting leads. (Paterson Joseph is in the running for the next Doctor in Doctor Who.) There was a series which used the alternative time travel theory on UK tv back in the sixties and though going out at children's viewing time Timeslip was quite an intelligent narrative showing the possibilities of climate change in the future... The Time of the Ice Box and The Year of the Burn Up.
At this point, renewal for a second season seems unlikely for Timeless, but it's not yet been definitely cancelled. I'd enjoy a second season - I found the last few episodes to easily be the best of the season so far.
On cancellations, and slipping sideways on the theme, I always wondered what would have happened to Time Tunnel if it hadn't been cancelled. It's a fact the longer Irwin Allen ran a show the more likely the silver sprayed people, lobster monsters and recycled footage from Lost World would be used, and some of that was coming into TT, but he also added new hardware to his shows. Flying Sub to Voyage, Hopper to Lost. What extra hardware would he have bought to TT? Travel Pod, probe. Just wondering. And though the stories were his usual 'jumping and running' in four acts at least the Tunnel set was and is pretty impressive.
You could have a whole alternate universe - or maybe multiple universes :) - around the continuation of shows that were cancelled in our reality. Usually, though, and for what it's worth, when a show is miraculously renewed after talk of cancellation, it's not as good as the original. (In a very different genre, Nashville was cancelled by one network in America last year, picked up another, and it's ok at now at best.)
In the UK a show is shown for its full season even if it losses viewers. (Can't think of one that was stopped mid season.) But then it gets no second year. There are certainly ones that had second seasons that rebooted the show to disastrous results, like Space 1999 or Doomwatch.
In the US, a show is usually approved for 12 or so episodes, and, then, depending upon how it does, it's approved or not for the "back end" (great name) for the remaining 6 or more episodes.Frequency never made it beyond its initial 13 episodes, with no word yet on its (unlikely) renewal. Timeless is in the same boat, though the last show of this season will be the 16th not 13th.
When I was a schoolboy there was a show advertised in our Radio Times that said it would have 52 episodes, made up of eight stories. I was excited but my dad said that was nonsense, no series or serial would be on each week for a year. He was nearly right as it did hit trouble in its first 18 weeks but survived to complete its 52 week run. And the following 54 years... Doctor Who.
NBC reversed itself and just renewed Timeless after all - details here http://paullevinson.blogspot.com/2017...
Season 2 starts Sunday 11 March 2018 Check local listings for time should be around 10 PM.
Here are my reviews of every episode in Season 1, beginning with the last episode, with links at the bottom to my reviews of the others http://paullevinson.blogspot.com/2017...
El Ministerio Del Tiempo (aka Ministry of Time) is now showing on Netflix:https://www.netflix.com/title/80064235
I had seen claims that Timeless was a ripoff of the Spanish TV series. I've only watched the first episode and would say they are far more different than alike. Other than the time travel, the only similarity is that there are three team members with an intelligent woman as the team leader and an ex-"military" team member who had lost his wife. But even the nature and breadth of the time travel is far different.
I agree with you, Randy. In truth, I always believed that Wyatt is a complete hot-head of the kind that would never be accepted as part of a special forces unit. He thought with his emotions instead of his brain through nearly the entire episode (and did that too during most of Season One). This is the mark of poor script writing. Another idiotic script point: the 'need' for Rittenhouse to go get this guy who was the first to think about time travel to change history. He was a simple man from early 1900s, without any special scientific talents (unless they failed to mention it during the episode), so why the need to bring him to the future? To play the future role of Rittenhouse dictator, à la Hitler? It all sounds stupid as a plot.
my reviews of Timeless 2.4 http://paullevinson.blogspot.com/2018... and Timeless 2.5 http://paullevinson.blogspot.com/2018... Both are excellent, but I thought 2.5 - about JFK - makes a real contribution to the JFK/time-travel sub-genre, and is not to be missed.
I did like the Austin switcheroo. :)It might have been more interesting if he had done something like break Joe's leg, so he wouldn't die in combat...
Reminder the Series Finale "Movie" airs TONIGHT Thursday 20 December 2018 at 8;00 PM EST
When I saw the finale advertised I was really confused, did I miss a season, or are they just doing this to wrap up seasons 1 and 2?
To resolve the huge cliffhangers they had in the season 2 finale.
I was totally surprised when this popped up on my tv. Last thing I had read was that the series was renewed for another season but I guess that changed. These shows come and go at the whim of tv executives without a clue. Like another guy here I had almost forgotten about Timeless. Mostly I liked the series in that it had lots of stories about moments in history although it kind of played with the facts. I didn't so much like the 2 hour wrapup but what can you do.
