Great Middle Grade Reads discussion

Despite having over 2000 members, only around 50-80 vote on the BOTM poll each month.

I don't expect everyone to read the winning book.

I don't always read it, although I read more than I did before I became a Moderator and took over running the BOTM. Some I would like to read but they're not in my library, and, as usual with traditionally published books, if they are available for kindle they're often the same price or even more expensive than the paperback. If I already want to read it (Wrinkle in Time springs to mind) I'll buy it, but most of the time I'll just miss out.

So why aren't they in my library? They're simply not on the reading lists or not popular enough in the UK. We have lots of great and highly popular authors of children's books in the UK who don't make it into US libraries, I'm sure, although the best (I'm thinking Jonathan Stroud, Lockwood & Co series, our October BOTM) have definitely made it internationally. OTOH many popular US authors don't get publicised internationally, and we don't get them in the UK. So that's my viewpoint.

I know we have active members in Australia, Canada, New Zealand, UK, Ireland, and more places other than the USA. Some occasionally comment that they can't get the BOTM for less than $20 or similar.

Goodreads started in US so it makes sense that we have a large membership who are quite happy so long as it's in US Libraries.

But should we at least try to get our BOTM books to be more accessibly to all our audience?

How could we do that?

What do you think?

Maybe not picking a new release book unless it is from an internationally recognized/popular author. Or maybe picking books that are available as paperbacks as well as hardcover. If it was available as a paperback hopefully it may be available in more libraries around the world.

For instance OCDaniel is only available as a hardcover on Book Depository and isn't available as a paperback until April 2017. My local libraries generally only have paperbacks for their children's books.

Just suggestions, I accept that being down in NZ we are slower to get some books. I look forward to reading OCDaniel sometime next year hopefully.

I agree with not promoting, not choosing very newly released books for our monthly polls, especially books that have as yet not been released in paperback. There is no way I am willing to purchase an expensive hardcover of a book that I might not even enjoy. And our local library does not even allow Interlibrary Loan requests for books that have been on the market for less than two years (so OCDaniel is out of the question for me, the library does not have it, ILL is not possible and I do not want to spend money on a hardcover). So yes, I agree with Julie, that very recent books that have not yet been released as paperbacks should either not even be considered or should only be considered for internationally known authors or publishing houses (but even the latter can be an issue if the library does not yet have a copy). I personally would rather not consider books that are only available as hardcovers. Being in Canada, I do tend to get more USA books than likely many UK, NZ etc. members, but it is a bit of a crap shoot nonetheless, especially since the local library is on a budget lately (and I do not generally mind buying a paperback if the book interests me and I cannot get it from the library or through ILL, but recently released hardcovers, especially of books that only mildly interest me, sorry, but not really).

Julie wrote: "Maybe not picking a new release book unless it is from an internationally recognized/popular author. Or maybe picking books that are available as paperbacks as well as hardcover. If it was availabl..."

You two remind me that one of our rules when this started was that a book needed to have been out for at least two years. It sounds like it might help to start enforcing that rule again. That would at least raise the possibility of paperbacks.

Would we want to consider it a disqualifier if, say, members from two countries chimed in to say the book isn't available in their country, or only at unreasonable expense?

Yes, Rebecca, I think we should go back to the system where we could only have books that are at least 2 years old. This will increase the chances of availability.

Another suggestion I have is to allow other books in the shortlist to be discussed along with the BOTM. Of course we would all prefer to read the BOTM, but if we can't get hold of it, then another book in the shortlist, in the same theme might give a different perspective to the discussion? Maybe some of us might have the time to read more than one book in the shortlist and can compare them as well. We had some BOTM where most did not like the book (obviously voters were swayed by a good blurb), so if someone had read another book and commented that it was better, it would generate a good discussion.

Justine wrote: "Yes, Rebecca, I think we should go back to the system where we could only have books that are at least 2 years old. This will increase the chances of availability.

Another suggestion I have is to..."

I am totally in agreement with ONLY allowing books nominated that are at least two years old. Many ILL systems (including my local library system) will not honour requests for books that are less than two years old, so if very recently published books are suggested or are chosen, those of us who do not have them in our library system are out of luck unless we have the funds to purchase them (and newer books are also often more expensive, especially if they have not yet been released in paperback).

Yes, I didn't spot that OCDaniel was fairly new, although we have had well-known authors out internationally who have been accessible much more quickly. The trouble then is that there is often a waiting list for the book. It would help me if someone was willing to police that side of nominations.

Jemima wrote: "Yes, I didn't spot that OCDaniel was fairly new, although we have had well-known authors out internationally who have been accessible much more quickly. The trouble then is that there is often a wa..."

All of us who are planning to join in or nominating should or could do a bit of such "policing" work. But it might be an idea to make the "it has to be more than two years old" a group rule, as I think it would definitely make ILL requests easier.

I like the two year rule, but I have also noticed some books disappearing from bookstores fairly quickly, so there's still no guarantee that the book will be available. I try to make sure not to vote on anything I can't get (doing that mistake once was enough), but I don't want to stop others for selecting it if I'm the only one having trouble finding the book.

A group rule would be good. I'm happy with the book being at least one year old (two if you want) and available as a paperback. That way if it isn't available in the two different library systems I have available to me, I can purchase the book if I really like the sound of it. (I hardly ever buy hardbacks here as they are so expensive).

On the group's homepage at the bottom where it has the bookshelf pictured, I went through all the books that were selected this year. I found all of these between the two libraries I go to except for "The Boundless" and "Fireflies". I thought that was very good. As we may not get some titles in NZ I don't mind going with what the group wants to read and then having to miss out sometimes. I can always pick one of the other books that were nominated for the month or one of the past winners of the BOTM.

Julie wrote: "A group rule would be good. I'm happy with the book being at least one year old (two if you want) and available as a paperback. That way if it isn't available in the two different library systems I..."

I find with hardbacks, not only are they too expensive, they also take up more shelving room. I have harback copies of some of my favourite books, but I really do not like buying hardbacks of a book I am only mildly interested in or which I am trying out for a group or club read.

Jemima wrote: "Yes, I didn't spot that OCDaniel was fairly new, although we have had well-known authors out internationally who have been accessible much more quickly. The trouble then is that there is often a wa..."

I'll make sure I pay attention to that when I'm checking the libraries. BTW, if anyone want to send me the links for their own library catalogs from other countries or other parts of the US, I can check a little more widely. As it is, I check my own home system, which is fairly big, and the King County (WA) Library System, which is the largest in the country.

Actually, I want to apologize for not staying on top of the age of the books, because we never changed that rule--we just stopped mentioning/enforcing it. I think we did have a discussion that some members wanted to read the newest stuff, but I don't think we intended to change that rule permanently.

Rebecca wrote: "I think we did have a discussion that some members wanted to read the newest stuff..."

This must have been before I joined the group which was a few months ago. Maybe now that there's not going to be a tie for the BOTM as Jemima is going to have the deciding vote, there could be a new release book selected as a read for the month alongside the BOTM (or instead of the BOTM if you wanted). This could happen once a year like "New Release November" for books that have been released that year, or twice a year like June for new releases from the first half of the year and December for new releases from the second half of the year. No topic would have to be picked to make it easy, any new release middle grade book could be nominated.

This is just an idea for those who would like to read new release books. I probably wouldn't be reading the book but I thought it might be nice for others who want to.

I like Justine's idea of allowing other books on the shortlist to be discussed alongside the winner.

I wouldn't like to say how much availability affects voting. I only vote if I fancy something on the list and know I'll have time to read it.

I'm in South Africa and our libraries are small and under-resourced. IRR is rare, so I have a very small chance of finding the books in the library. Our exchange rate has depreciated badly over the past few years, I very seldom buy any new books and rely on either second hand bookshops or ebooks if they are affordable. It means I need a long lead time to find specific books. In addition, publishers focus on the really popular authors as it is such a small book market, so many US authors are not readily available.

So I would support the idea of a separate thread where we can discuss some of the other books. It would also be easier if we choose the BOTM earlier to give more time to hunt down a copy. For example, it would be nice if we could vote in January for the March read to have a month to see if I can find it.

Carolien said: For example, it would be nice if we could vote in January for the March read to have a month to see if I can find it.

That's certainly do-able. My library comes 4-weekly so I got the Twistrose Key on 20th Dec. When it gets round to arriving in the first week or so of the month I don't have time to order the book!

Rebecca and I both thought picking a theme for BOTM of 'something beginning with a hard letter to fill in our A to Z Challenge' would be a good idea. Instead we could have that alternative to BOTM thread where we read books on a common theme ( e.g. anything with X in the title) and discuss them - Theme of The Month, for example. The theme could be announced a month ahead to enable you to search for something suitable, rather than wait to the end of the month to find out a specific book.

How does that sound?

Jemima wrote: "Carolien said: For example, it would be nice if we could vote in January for the March read to have a month to see if I can find it.

That's certainly do-able. My library comes 4-weekly so I got t..."

That sounds like a very good idea. Themes definitely improve selections. I would also be keen on the occasional regional theme or ideas to promote some inclusivity. I found a long list of new authors in the month where we nominated Indie authors this year and as there books are on Kindle, it was very doable.

So if I understand you, Jemima, you're suggesting that instead of a single book, we have a group theme? So everyone finds his/her own book with horses or whatever the theme is? Could be interesting. Why don't we try that for some of the months, and see? It's nice to have a discussion about a specific book, but discussions of how many books handle theme would be good, too.

We could alternate months.

Rebecca wrote: "So if I understand you, Jemima, you're suggesting that instead of a single book, we have a group theme? So everyone finds his/her own book with horses or whatever the theme is? Could be interesting..."

I do kind of like that suggestion, but I wonder if there should be a certain amount of parameters put in place as well, like for instance, that the book one chooses to discuss or rather present, needs to be available in English translation if one is considering a book in a language other than English.

Manybooks, I hadn't thought about that, since with group reads we assume English, that being the language of the vast majority of participants. OTOH: I might be interested in knowing about books in other languages, even if I can't read them.

My main thought was to continue the Book of the Month as at present (including an indie book month as we did last year), but running a Theme of the Month in parallel.

We have around 50-70 people vote on the BOTM poll each month, but only about ten to fifteen generally comment (which is less than the number who voted for it). If we ran the TOTM in parallel, then maybe those who don't want to read the Book of the Month would talk about something they want to read that fits the theme?

I don't think we need to put in any stipulation on what they read other than it fits the age group range for MG, say 9-12. It would help make us more inclusive if people wanted to read something from their own country and talk about it. I'd request they told the group about it in English, though ;)

Jemima wrote: "My main thought was to continue the Book of the Month as at present (including an indie book month as we did last year), but running a Theme of the Month in parallel.

We have around 50-70 people..."

I wonder if many vote for the poll choices just because they happen to see the poll and are not really all that interested in actually joining the group read.

Good point. Although of course many people may read the book and enjoy reading the comments, but not want to discuss it themselves. We have no idea how many that might be.

Jemima wrote: "Good point. Although of course many people may read the book and enjoy reading the comments, but not want to discuss it themselves. We have no idea how many that might be."

And some may have voted for some of the other choices and are not interested in reading the book that won or unable to get a cheap (or a library) copy.

I like that plan. I know there have been a few where I didn't care to read the chosen book, and a few other where I just didn't carve out the time. So I can't promise to participate every time. But if we have a thread for discussing books on the theme, I can read the book I did vote for and participate there.

Of course, this might reduce the participation in the BOTM discussion still further.

I'm interested in the book of the month. I think this might be quite interesting. :)

Ju wrote: "I'm interested in the book of the month. I think this might be quite interesting. :)"

January BOTM is The Lightning Thief. Jump right in!

Manybooks wrote: "And some may have voted for some of the other choices and are not interested in reading the book that won or unable to get a cheap (or a library) copy..."

Yes, but we often don't get half the number commenting that actually voted for it!