The Next Best Book Club discussion

Tiffany wrote: "Hi James! I enjoyed the story you presented. To delve so deep into such a current controversial topic right now takes a lot of guts. I did find one issue (that I obviously got over it). Do you not ..."

Hi Tiffany, I started doing that with the m-dash instead of quotation marks way early on when I first started writing. I found quotes really messed me up, they threw me off my rhythm or took me out of what I was doing. Whatever the reason, I found m-dashes to be the solution. So I've always done that. I forget it's unusual. Some others do it. A lot of Irish writers, I think. And I think Marlon James does it too sometimes. And Rick Moody.

The use of the c-word was intentional -- it's so insulting and nasty and hideous and offensive and denigrating that it was exactly what Jenny's misogynistic male enemies would use against her to try and shut her up. I did not enjoy typing it over and over, of course. It still makes me wince to see it on the page. No one's yet to give me guff about it, probably because they understand how I'm using it and what it serves.

Lori wrote: "James, earlier in the conversation, Book Concierge poised the question about the switch from a larger publisher to a smaller one.

As a huge fan of the small press community, and of NYC, I have to..."

Franklin Park Reading Series out in Crown Heights, Brooklyn is great -- as is its sister series called Manhattanville Reading Series. That's my old neighborhood, where I wrote The Shooting. Penina Roth runs both and she's impressive, she literally walks up and down the main drag there handing out flyers and talking up authors and books to anyone who will listen. From almost literally nothing she has created very fun events with A-list writers. She's a soldier of literature.

I don't really do the literary scene -- I'll do readings and store events when I have a book out, but otherwise I lay low and try to focus on the work at hand because it can all be very distracting.

I keep meaning to get out to one of Penina's events. She does have some very impressive line ups for her series. I'm also a fan of the KGB bar as a lit space. I've gone to a few of their fiction readings.

Where do you find you do most of your writing? Is it at home in a particular space? Do you write on the go? Do the 'environmentals' matter much to you (quiet, white noise, music)?

Lori wrote: "I keep meaning to get out to one of Penina's events. She does have some very impressive line ups for her series. I'm also a fan of the KGB bar as a lit space. I've gone to a few of their fiction re..."

Mostly at home. In Brooklyn I had a little space in our apartment to work. I'd write in the morning then head off to a day job in an office. That's how I wrote The Shooting. But now we're in Jersey City which lets me have an entire room with a door, which is luxurious. Though the challenge these days is finding the time -- we have a 14 month old, and I've been home full time with her for the past year. She just started walking, which means I'm doing much more chasing after her than writing lately.

James wrote: "The use of the c-word was intentional -- it's so insulting and nasty and hideous and offensive and denigrating that it was exactly what Jenny's misogynistic male enemies would use against her to try and shut her up. I did not enjoy typing it over and over, of course. It still makes me wince to see it on the page. No one's yet to give me guff about it, probably because they understand how I'm using it and what it serves. ..."

I have to tell you, James, if it were not for my having made a commitment to read and comment in this discussion, I would have stopped reading. Using it in the opening for effect was fine ... jarring and disturbing, yes, but understandable. Using it so often in the first few pages was really off-putting. I participate in six (yes, 6) F2F book discussion groups and I would not be able to recommend your book to any of them. Sorry ...

I personally, have recommended this book to several people already. Yes, the use of the word cunt was excessive in the first chapter but I got it. It took a lot of grit as an author to do that because there are a lot of people that will stop reading and miss out on the point of the whole book. I do not particularly like the word but it wouldn't keep me from reading. I think the excessivness was like a slap in the face but I think that was the point and people like Jenny would grab on to something like that and use it like a mask. I am glad in subsequent chapters to was toned down so the reader could dive into the story.

I don't like obscenity as a rule. However, when it is necessary for the development of character and not done out of context with the story I don't mind it. We all hear it in daily lives and to not use it in literature would be lessening the impact it the story. I do not think it was excessive , just descriptive.

As shocking as the word is it was used not only to shock but also to establish character to get you right into the story.No denying that it is an extremely ugly word.Literature is not for the meek& if anyone finds something makes them uncomfortable it can lead to interesting discussions like we are having or you can choose to move on to another book.

This is the quote that most resonated with me. I really love how beautifully put this is and feel it is how I try to live my life.

"...you see a thousand faces a day yet know nothing about the people they belong to; there is an entire universe behind each one and so you must have faith in all people, you are forced to, the only other choice is to build walls around yourself and live afraid - what a fool is one who decides what is in another man's heart, what a vulgarian is one who ever presumes anything about anyone."

I absolutely DO understand what James was going for in using the c-word. It was a brave choice and definitely fit the context and the theme of the book. We SHOULD be uncomfortable with violence in our society. But ...

It IS off-putting ... and I think there are many readers who will stop reading because of its use. That's too bad, because what James is saying in the book needs to be said and people need to read about and understand what is going on in the world.

Diane wrote: "This is the quote that most resonated with me. I really love how beautifully put this is and feel it is how I try to live my life.

"...you see a thousand faces a day yet know nothing about the peo..."

Hi Diane, I'm glad to hear that resonated with you. That's Clayton's father, whose worldview I found myself really admiring. What I had in mind when I was working on the book was that he and Lee have two polar opposite worldviews. His is faith. Lee's is fear. I think the novel lives in the tension between the two.

Wow, so much conversation around the word "cunt". I love it! I love it for its shock value and because any book that contains multiple vulgar, crass language instantly pulls me in. (Ian McGuire's The North Water had a ridiculous amount of f-bombs in the first few pages and it was awesome!)

I do agree, James' novel says the things that needs to be said, and does so in a way that is meant to make you gasp, and then immediately reflect. It's a wake up call. He's holding a mirror to America's face and saying "we have an issue. this is an issue. it can't be allowed to continue".

One thing that sort of caught me off guard was Lee's response to becoming a father. He was such a recluse and my impression was that he was mentally ill; certainly his version of reality was very different from other people's, and it seemed he had audio and visual hallucinations. Yet, he appeared to be taking care of his son adequately. We never hear any allegations that the child was not fed, or kept clean and warm. (Of course, I worry that the cycle Lee endured in his own childhood will be repeated...)

Anyway ... for me, this served to "humanize" Lee ... to make him less of a monster ... less of a "crazy man."

Bravo, James, for adding this level of complexity to your character.

I agree, it was like he wanted to be everything for his son that his father was not for him.

Book Concierge wrote: "One thing that sort of caught me off guard was Lee's response to becoming a father. He was such a recluse and my impression was that he was mentally ill; certainly his version of reality was very d..."

Thanks! I think of Lee as being motivated by the same things most of us are. One of those is keeping his child safe. Being a good father is very important to him. He wants to try and correct what he missed out on in the relationship with his own father. But also, being a good father gibes with how he sees himself, the kind of man he thinks he is. He protects his child -- that's the kind of man he is. He protects himself and his community. He takes on that burden, in his view. He's noble and heroic, in his mind. Which is what leads to the tragedy at the center of the story. So that tension between how he sees himself and how his life actually is and the effects on others is interesting and meaningful to me.

I heard one time that children are a reflection of the values of their parents. Lee would give that saying some validity. His only connection to the world was a mentally sick man. He did not understand compassion, or any value that his father did not have the capability to teach. I least understood Lee's fathers character. He seemed to be drugged up and drunk. I couldn't get where he was coming from. I did not now what the mountain of trash was. Was that actually where they lived or was that what he was? If it was where they lived then it doesn't fit with the money they had. If it was a state of mind, I understand it more

One thing I found interesting was how one person's memory of an event was so different from another's memory of the same event. (such as the relationship between Maureen and Lee) It really shows that our memories are tainted and biased with our own thoughts and experiences. What is reality? If 3 people experience the same thing, and all remember it slightly different, who has the most reliable account of the experience? You Are Not So Smart: Why You Have Too Many Friends on Facebook, Why Your Memory Is Mostly Fiction, and 46 Other Ways You're Deluding Yourself Really speaks to this phenomenon and is an interesting look at the human mind and how it perceives things.

Diane wrote: "One thing I found interesting was how one person's memory of an event was so different from another's memory of the same event. (such as the relationship between Maureen and Lee) It really shows th..."

I hadn't heard of that book, it definitely looks interesting.

I like narratives in which we get more than one version of the same event, and I also like when we follow unexpected side characters to see the fallout of what we've seen, or the surprising reasons for what we've just seen. I think that serves empathy, which is a good thing to strive for in fiction and which we all could use larger reserves of.

Well you were successful in that matter. I enjoyed that aspect of your story. I felt it made your writing style different from the things I usually read. O have not read anything else you have written, is this technique something you incorporate in your other books?

Hello James -

I apologize for being, what may seem, late to the party. I've had one of those mind- and body-leveling colds which threatens sanity and has you hoping for another existence on a separate plane of reality.

Although I have been absent in the comments, I have been at the party, just hiding in the wings watching and reading.

Congratulations on the book! It rattled my comfortable reading pattern and except for sleep, I carried it everywhere and was not prepared for the feeling that I could not put it down when finished but actually had to return to various points and chapters. Not because I was confused on any issue but just to soak in a few of the passages and make notes.

A few of my questions were answered along the way here in our discussions but I still have a couple of items to chime in on and hope that it isn't 'too late in the day'.

I'll phrase them separately for convenience in discussion for yourself and for the other members of the group.

Thanks so much for joining us. :)

I feel that I must return to your frequent and BOLD use of the word CUNT! in the beginning pages. I realize your intent in using the word. I am not much offended by profanity as I completed a 2-year dissertation studying profanity and slang language and can sound as bad as ‘a sailor’. Nonetheless, I find this word the most offensive word in the English language. And as Book Concierge pointed out previously, I would not have persevered in reading had I not made a commitment to do so. I simply perceive those pages as being written for shock-value as neither the language nor the opponents’ extreme perception of her in this way are repeated in other places in the book except for one brief mention towards the end.

I did work through those pages, however, and was glad that I did so. Nonetheless, I need to make a few observations. As authors, we are inherently driven to write, you might say. Prior to publication, there is a need to express ourselves and thus, the act of writing can be cathartic. But then, the bottom-line is that there are two results expected by the writer upon publication. One is the hope and expectation of sales. An author lays bare their talents and emotions to the public much as a visual artist. Rejection is not wanted; positive reviews and successful sales are a prime motive.

Secondly, in writing on such a passionate subject as you have, you obviously wish to expose to the audience your views and reveal the madness beneath our gun culture. As a former bookstore owner, I know that many readers will peruse the first few pages of a book prior to purchase, whether it is a printed book or e-book. By opening in the way that you have, I feel that a very large proportion of the reading public will discard the book and not purchase or read it - thus halting not only reviews and sales but also the intent to get readers involved.

The Shooting was originally published in March, 2016 and yet from Amazon and Goodreads the number of reviews are extremely low with few ratings as well. Do you ever feel that The Shooting would have more success in all those areas, had the pages of Jenny Sander’s reflections on her opponents’ view of her come just a bit later in the book, giving the readers momentum to continue?

And should you have another printing, WOULD you consider making that change as the author's license to do so?

I live in Montana and except for a 10-15 year time frame when I lived in the Seattle area, I was born and raised here and have lived here all my life.

Montana was the final home of the 'UNaBOMber', Ted Kaczynski and also the setting for the kidnapping of Kari Swenson by the survivalists, Don and Dan Nichols. My father was a 30-year policeman during those years. And Ryan Zinke, our in-coming new Interior Secretary, campaigned for Senator on his 20 + year career as a Navy Seal Commander and won with an overwhelming victory. (As though that is a necessary trait to understanding and representation in government.)

I was raised in the presence of guns, used to shoot with such a high precision that I was considered for the US Olympic shooting team. But that was not my direction. My father was embarrassed to realize that I was a hippy loving, make peace not war, tree-hugging environmentalist, lol

Montana is definitely a gun culture state. And I grew up here. I am not a proponent of repealing the second amendment. That amendment was based on a similar British law at the time and at this time, is part of our legacy. The resistance to a direct repeal would be overwhelming. But I am however, a strong advocate of gun control, licensing, regulations and strict background checks.

The second amendment did not allow for AK-47s and 50-round 9mm Glocks. Those guns' sole purpose is to kill fellow beings. At the time the constitution was written, we were using single shot muzzle-loading musket-ball rifles. (Well, I’m off on a gun-control tear now.)

My point is that your book is an excellent portrayal of how ingrained violence is to the American people. How accepting we are of weekly “mass shootings, accidental shootings, gang shootings, police shootings” and how common they are becoming. A new book is coming out in May titled Scars of Independence: America's Violent Birth by Holger Hoock. It looks directly at our revolution for independence, not the sanitized version that we are taught, the Boston Tea Party, Paul Revere on his horse racing through the night ‘the British are coming’, nor the glorious stance and pristine uniform of George Washington crossing a river untouched by the brutal violence of war; but instead facing the realities of our revolution, acts that would be considered war crimes today, of torture and starvation of the British.

I know you read much history of guns and violence in America. Did you find other books that looked so far back in our beginnings as the revolution and if so, was our heritage part of the development of The Shooting?

Diane wrote: "Well you were successful in that matter. I enjoyed that aspect of your story. I felt it made your writing style different from the things I usually read. O have not read anything else you have writ..."

Hi Diane, I have incorporated that technique into previous books and stories, though not all of them. It is certainly something I keep returning to, form-wise. My first novel MVP is one example that comes to mind.

Danita L wrote: "I feel that I must return to your frequent and BOLD use of the word CUNT! in the beginning pages. I realize your intent in using the word. I am not much offended by profanity as I completed a 2-yea..."

No, I would not change what I have written to increase sales. I stand by my work.

Danita L wrote: "I live in Montana and except for a 10-15 year time frame when I lived in the Seattle area, I was born and raised here and have lived here all my life.

Montana was the final home of the 'UNaBOMber'..."

Yes, I did read a lot about the Revolution. One interesting revelation is that back then we not the gun culture we like to believe we were. When it came time to take up arms against the British, not enough people owned guns or knew how to use them. So they had to import them from France and hire Swedes to come show them how to use them. (I don't know why Swedes -- I guess back then they were the most proficient.)

James,thanks for this terrific open discussion.

James wrote: "Diane wrote: "Well you were successful in that matter. I enjoyed that aspect of your story. I felt it made your writing style different from the things I usually read. O have not read anything else..."
I will check it out soon. Thanks, it has been interesting participating in the discussion this week. I appreciate you candor and insight.

As I mentioned before the profanity did not bother me. I was bothered by the characterization of Lee's father. I thought it too stereotypical of what people call red necks. I cannot imagine anyone not taking their child to the doctor or acting that it would toughen him up. I also can't imagine the school not dealing with it. Was that all in Lee' mind?

Chris wrote: "As I mentioned before the profanity did not bother me. I was bothered by the characterization of Lee's father. I thought it too stereotypical of what people call red necks. I cannot imagine anyone ..."

When Lee confronts his father at the end of the book, he sees several photos of himself in which he did not have the eye problem. There was no swelling or oozing. Additionally, there is information showing that other remembrances of Lee's may have been false including any conceptions that we may have of the father due to Lee's false memories i.e. having pigs at their place when according to the father, they never owned any pigs.

~ Pigs are too much trouble. They root around, dig their way out, eat anything and anybody. We didn't have them. We had a dairy cow. Some chickens. No pigs.

As Lee tries to argue about this, his father chuckles and points to another picture, one of Lee poking his head out the door of the barn and grinning from ear to ear. ~ I love this one. Lee peers close at it. His face is not swollen, there is nothing oozing. His eye is completely white and healthy. Lee feels dizzy.

I even view the photograph of Lee looking out the barn door into the sunlight as being the same incident he 'remembers' as being trapped by his father in the barn and then stepping into the light thus suggesting that much of what he recalls of his father may be wrong, including the history of 'the' gun.

I had hoped you would answer my question with a 'no' regarding a change in the opening of The Shooting. The question was a 'slider' which is why I capitalized the word 'WOULD' in the wording. Although I do feel the opening will put off many individuals, it is important for authors to believe in their work with integrity. Thank you for confirming that.

I saw the title of The Shooting as not just encompassing Lee and Clayton but also that of the shooting of Michelle and the shooting of Jenny. It was ordained from the beginning that Jenny would die.

There is nothing Jenny Sanders would not do to save us. Nothing at all.

It seems that Jenny may also suffer from guilt the way many people do when they lose a loved one - as if their being at the scene might have saved the deceased - even though it is an irrational guilt. Is her enfolding of the term 'cunt' a part of her own view of herself in that irrational guilt?

And was Jenny's death at the end also a sign of that - in order to return to the arms of Michelle as a 'good mother'?

Hey everyone. Today is the final day to get your questions posted for James. Is there anything you want to ask that you haven't put out there yet???

James, I want to thank you so much for hanging with us all week. It was really cool to get behind the book and uncover the influences for the novel! You were an amazing guest!!

Danita L wrote: "I had hoped you would answer my question with a 'no' regarding a change in the opening of The Shooting. The question was a 'slider' which is why I capitalized the word 'WOULD' in the wording. Altho..."

Yeah, I think those are good assessments. I can agree with those.

Lori wrote: "Hey everyone. Today is the final day to get your questions posted for James. Is there anything you want to ask that you haven't put out there yet???

James, I want to thank you so much for hanging ..."

It's been a pleasure!