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Talks and Thoughts on the Ace Spectrum
I must say that I was more surprised to find out that so called demisexuality is not thought to be the norm, as I always used to believe that to be how sexuality works. :)I actually use to regularly visit a asexuality Forum and am always amazed at how much more serious interest those people seem to show in sexuality - not the engagement in, but the understanding of part - and how much more knowledgable they are about it than any sexual I could name.
Well I'm pretty well read on sexuality and I found quite a good way of distancing demisexuality from other things. A lot of people think demisexuality is abstaining from sex until an emotional bond is formed but it's not just abstaining from sex. Demisexual people don't feel SEXUAL ATTRACTION until an emotion bond is formed. For example, I may be sexually attracted to my waiter but I don't want to actually have sex until I know him better. However, a demisexual person would literally not be sexually attracted to the waiter until they had an emotion connection. I hope this helps
For the asexuals: They're a part of the LGBTQIA+acronym, and try to get as much attention as the other parts of the acronym.I think it's highly problematic if one says that a lack or the absence of a sex drive is per se bad. Only the individual can and should have a say about this.
As you already said, Ana, it's really frustrating me if people make sex the most important thing in the life of humans. I think sex is a major part of life for most humans, but not for all and there's also a spectrum of importance.
I'm wondering tho what people are called who only partially fit their designated gender at birth. I thought they were called demisexuals? Or is this term used for either, in which I think we should use another term for one or the other.
I've the opposite thing as demisexual, I think about the abstract ideas of love and sex and think I could be into it, but then when I go on a date with a specific person and start kissing them I feel NOTHING. I thought at first it was because I was young and inexperienced and nervous. But I'm 33 now.
Elizabeth wrote: "I've the opposite thing as demisexual, I think about the abstract ideas of love and sex and think I could be into it, but then when I go on a date with a specific person and start kissing them I feel NOTHING"Yeah, it looks - is made to sound - a lot more fun than it turns out to be for real, doesn't it. :)
That's why I find it a lot more easy to understand people that say they feel no sexual attraction, than people that make it sound as if sexual attraction was some kind of irresistible force.
Two of my close friends recently came out as asexual, so I've also been reading up on the asexuality spectrum. I'm glad they're happy with who they are, and I'll admit it's also given me a chance to tackle my own ignorance regarding this identity. My friends have kindly steered me to helpful resources, and I've learned a lot. I found your explanation of demisexuality quite helpful, Maddie. Other things I've read about demisexuality have also really resonated based on my past experiences and personal attitudes towards sex and friendship. In regard to kissing etc., I remain physically "shut down" if I have no emotional attachment to a person--so I'm beginning to understand it's not just a preference but rather a state of being. It's also helped me to understand where my asexual friends are coming from and to be supportive of their experiences.
I also agree with previous posts in this thread that it's wrong to assume everyone has an equal sex drive--there's definitely a spectrum and people have different wants and needs. Portrayals of sex and sexuality, whether subtle or overt, play such a huge role in advertising, TV shows, movies, etc., that I think that does influence many people in assuming that sex is something everyone naturally wants (and therefore to judge someone who is not interested in sex).
I think the problem with asexuality is that so few people know about it. I mean, nearly everybody knows about homosexuals (their attitude towards it is secondary to knowing about it, I think, at least in the beginning), but who knows about asexuals. Isn't it still treated as an illness?I'm not sure, but I think so, which makes me very angry.
1. the A in LGBTQIA generally includes the whole ace-spectrum, including demisexual, aromantic, gray-ace people etc :) some asexual people invalidate some of these experiences, sadly. most seem fine with it.2. i think it's pretty common to expect romantic love to be something special, better than everything else in your life, etc. many demi people initially believe they just haven't met the right person.
but there are a lot of obscure terms nowadays, like lithosexual or autochorissexual. they may be a good fit if you like the idea of being in love but feel nothing when trying to date someone.
3. asexuality has been removed from the official manual http://www.asexualityarchive.com/asex... there are still things to improve of course and i'm sure lots of doctors still don't know much about asexuality.
Marina, I'm sure many doctors still view asexuality as an illness, which I think is a bit out of place since who shall tell a person that they're ill just because they're asexual. If anyone, then the person concerned should have a say in this and whether they want treatment in any way.Btw, I didn't know that the A stands for the whole ace spectrum, I always thought that it means only asexual. Thanks for teaching me.
I identify as asexual (don't experience sexual attraction) as well as aromantic (don't experience romantic attraction). I've come to terms with this just the last couple of years. When I was younger, specially in my teens and early 20's, finding that I had absolutely no desire to date, form romantic relationships and have sex was really distressing. It felt, and still feels like, that so much of our society and culture revolves around sex and romance that not wanting/needing/feeling that seems off and weird.
I have no problems reading or watching stuff that has romance and sex. I can like the idea of it all, and can enjoy experience these kind of things through media. But when it comes to me personally experience it all, I lose all interest, and can even be disgusted by the idea of me personally being romantic and/or sexual with someone. It's nice in abstract, and I can think that people are sexy, handsome and beautiful, but more than that, no thanks.
When daydreaming, for example, if my thoughts wanders to the romance/sex parts of life, I can think it's fun to imagine these kind off stuff, as long as it happens between other people and me being left out of it. For example, I can imagine two people having sex, but should I try to imagine that I have sex with some celebrity, say, that just weirds me out.
So yeah. Coming to terms and really accepting how I feel have and still is kind of difficult, as one, it feels like at least, are shut off from such a big part of society and culture.
Marina wrote: "but there are a lot of obscure terms nowadays, like lithosexual or autochorissexual. they may be a good fit if you like the idea of being in love but feel nothing when trying to date someone..."Haven't heard of those terms before, the more I learn about it, the more I start to wonder how people are supposed to experience sexuality?
I mean with everything being broken down into subsets, you have to wonder if it wouldn't just be easier to say sexuality is like religion - it means something different to everybody.
Before we have a rough eight billion different terms to cope with. :D
Emelie wrote: "I identify as asexual (don't experience sexual attraction) as well as aromantic (don't experience romantic attraction). I've come to terms with this just the last couple of years. When I was youn..."
I agree. I am aromantic, I've never felt any interest in being in a romantic relationship, and most people think I'm not normal because of it. Why does everyone think that life is only about having a romantic partner, getting married and have children? This lack of empathy makes my blood boil sometimes.
Gerd, I must say you have a point here. But maybe we can agree that there are certain groups which experience it the same. Like, there's christianity but there's catholicism and orthodox and anglicans and so on?
Thank you, Emelie, for posting this. It really made me think. I have often beat myself up for not being as sexually obsessed as most of our society seems to be. I mean, I just don't think about it that much, and never have. Your post was very affirming. :)
Agustin wrote: "I am aromantic, I've never felt any interest in being in a romantic relationship, and most people think I'm not normal because of it. ..."Well, as a complete romantic I can sort of understand how people may not be able to understand why someone may have no interest in romance. :)
MeerderWörter wrote: "Gerd, I must say you have a point here. But maybe we can agree that there are certain groups which experience it the same..."
I do think that there must be some common ground, and that experiences within the differing groups must be to an extent similar all around - else there could be no base at all from which to evaluate sexuality.
I'm just not sure about this trying to break down the big four in thousands of possible graduations, I'd think you are either sexual (and then can identify with one of the three main groups within that) or you're not.
This whole "I'm sexual but only when special circumstances are met, wherefore I'm not sexual sexual but instead, gosh what know I, coriolissexual because I only feel attracted when the Earth rotates in a certain way" I do have to wonder about people.
Gerd, your answer made me laugh. I don't put my feet on this hot topic, or else I'll burn myself.
MeerderWörter wrote: "Gerd, I must say you have a point here. But maybe we can agree that there are certain groups which experience it the same. Like, there's christianity but there's catholicism and orthodox and anglic..."I think this is a wonderful way to put it. We don't hear people complaining about how there's "a gazillion religious terms" even though there really are a LOT and how different religious labels can break down even farther depending on what denomination you are. They generally tend to respect that of people. They ONLY seem to complain when it comes to labels for gender and sexual orientation and romantic orientation that is not part of the binary. (Gee I wonder why...) So I don't take those complaints very seriously at all.
I'm demisexual and demiromantic. It certainly helped me to explain why I could have some fantasies, admit someone is handsome or beautiful, but when it came to kissing them or anything more I'd go cold and disinterested. And would scurry away and be like "BACK OFF. MY BED ONLY. E_E" at the thought of having anyone but me in the bed.
Yet several times I noticed in my deep and close friendships, that a surge of love would come up and I'd suddenly get an odd interest in dating them (even if they were cis women, when my preference is for men) and right on the heels of that would be sexual interest as well along the lines of "Well... I don't normally go for people like you... but if it's you it's okay?~ I want to experiment with you at the very least. :3 "
Luckily, when I was rejected by my friends, they did so gently and my feelings of love as well as sexual interest went away within a couple weeks.
I was so confused about this at first until I found out about demisexual and demiromantic, and realized they fit me to a T!
Now with this new knowledge, I was able to make a new friend (guy this time) with an eye out for a possible romantic/sexual relationship later on (basically someone I thought was handsome and was part of that preference) but at the same time made peace with the fact that I just had to get to know him as a friend FIRST and then see if it was possible that anything could come up for me. He's allosexual and had wanted to court me from the get-go but was wonderful about waiting since I told him how things worked for me, and was also going to be fine if it turned out that I felt nothing more than friends in the end.
Luckily for us both, through the amazing powers of honest communication and keeping each other up-to-date, it ended up working out very well for us both. :D He's now one of my best friends, my biggest supporter and advocate, as well as a sweet and sexy and amazing and gorgeous boyfriend and bed-partner. <3 I love him so much. :3
I'm so happy I was able to figure that out about myself and then put it to work FOR me. :D
So take that y'all who doubt the effectiveness of labels. ;) If I didn't have that label, how could I have possibly been able to understand how I worked and that other people were like me too and I wasn't the only one out there? Let alone use it to good effect?
Mehhhh. One may well argue that these lesser known sexualities are about being "asexual unless very specific circumstances are met" :P And they generally don't fit the mainstream definition of [allo]sexual.However all those definitions fall under the grey-ace umbrella, ie the grey area between being asexual and allosexual. If you don't find further details helpful, just don't look at them.
@Emelie, Agustin - how do you understand romantic attraction? I tend to consider myself demiromantic but I'm still questioning :)
Indigo wrote: "MeerderWörter wrote: "Gerd, I must say you have a point here. But maybe we can agree that there are certain groups which experience it the same. Like, there's christianity but there's catholicism a..."I go with the: "if you want a label, use it, if not, don't" way of life. I'm not opposed to labels, I use them for myself too. I only don't like them if they are used in a way to downgrade people instead of lifting them up.
I absolutely agree. If a label helps someone, then you're NOT creating unity by invalidating them.
Marina wrote: "I absolutely agree. If a label helps someone, then you're NOT creating unity by invalidating them."Exactly. It gives a feeling of community, of belonging. A feeling (and often to know that it's the case) that helps you to strenghten yourself against the ones who invalidate you, who think of inferior of you.
Like, take feminist: Nobody will ever downgrade me with that term, because I'm proud to be a feminist and it also gives me this knowledge that I belong, that there are other people who share my beliefs.
Indigo wrote: "He's allosexual and had wanted to court me from the get-go but was wonderful about waiting since I told him how things worked for me, and was also going to be fine if it turned out that I felt nothing more than friends in the end. Luckily for us both, through the amazing powers of honest communication and keeping each other up-to-date, it ended up working out very well for us both. :D He's now one of my best friends, my biggest supporter and advocate, as well as a sweet and sexy and amazing and gorgeous boyfriend and bed-partner. <3 I love him so much. :3 "
Thank you for sharing this part of your story. As someone who is in the process of courting someone that is demisexual and demiromantic and as someone who I'm pretty sure would be labeled as simply allosexual as you did your boyfriend, it has been a challenge. It's taken a good bit of learning about myself again (at the age of 32 - never too old to learn more) and learning about what demisexual, demiromantic, asexual, and aromantic all mean. Lots of reading people like yourself's personal stories about it. And to add to it, she's in college and going through finals. I sure know a time to try to date someone! lol
But, anyway, thank you for the personal story. Gives me hope that what I want out of this (a relationship) can happen even though as awesome of a person as she is, I'll be happy to just have her in my life.
Michael wrote: "Indigo wrote: "He's allosexual and had wanted to court me from the get-go but was wonderful about waiting since I told him how things worked for me, and was also going to be fine if it turned out t..."Why do you think that you can't have a relationship with her? A relationship is more than just - let's face it - sex and romance. And demisexual and -romantic doesn't mean she's not interested in either, it just needs time!
MeerderWörter wrote: "Michael wrote: "Indigo wrote: "He's allosexual and had wanted to court me from the get-go but was wonderful about waiting since I told him how things worked for me, and was also going to be fine if..."You're right. The past couple of days have shown me that I still have a lot to learn about this whole situation. I definitely have a lot of growing to do as a person still. Patience has always been an issue for me personally and something I continue to work on on a daily basis. It's been a very long time since I've went through the process of being friends first with a person of romantic interest before pursuing the romantic side of that interest as well.
And, you're also right, that a relationship is far more than just sex and romance. I've just always found myself in a hurry to get to the complacence of a relationship and that's proven to be a bad way of going about it for a while now. Lots and lots of things to continue to learn and grow and her being in the ace spectrum has made it that much more challenging.
Intresting subject. I am fascinated by the various approches to sexuality now. I have a question as how these variations relate to those in gender typing; there are currently 58 different classification of gender, does this tie in with sexual preferences or lack thereof.I think it is a good thing people seeing things that used to be fixed as fluid. It shows a move in society to except the innate equality of its members, we are all diffrent but equal in value.
Ross wrote: "Intresting subject. I am fascinated by the various approches to sexuality now. I have a question as how these variations relate to those in gender typing; there are currently 58 different classific..."Ross, your second paragraph warms my heart:) No, for sure, we are all different but equal in value.
I don't know if sexual orientation and gender are linked, an interesting question tho.
There's actually quite a bit of excellent discussion on the links between orientation and gender in this thread: https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/... and more specifically coming from the user Bunny with her pretty extensive study on it.The tl;dr version is basically there are four separate things that make up us as humans in how it relates to gender and sexuality:
There is sexuality "heterosexual, homosexual, and the gigantic spectrum between those two and outside of those two"
There is biology "men and women for example"
There is identity "transgender people for example"
There is gender "gender roles either artificial and/or forced by society and such"
Bunny goes far more in depth on each of them, but based on her research and the general consensus, those are the four separate categories that are largely defining in how we define ourselves to others within the social, biological, and mental aspects of defining ourselves to others and ourselves.
Thanks Michael, this is Bunny's field maybe we can get her to join the thread. If the originator has no objection to my reaching out.
I better check that topic out - Bunny is around here since the beginning, they're really great.
Sorry, should have read the whole thread before commenting caught up in the topic, my bad :)
Ross wrote: "Sorry, should have read the whole thread before commenting caught up un the interesting topic, my bad :)"I'd love to see Bunny joining us here - since she's the expert, we could actually get much more out of it than just us talking about it.
Well, I will say that based on what Bunny has said in that previously mentioned thread, quite a bit of her research came from simply reading what transgendered people had to say about sexuality and gender and really just gathering up as much information as possible from as many sources as possible.Gender, sexuality, and identity are all such a large spectrum for a lot of people, it's really just a very interesting topic in general. I mean, look at how people in this thread alone are talking about their sexuality. Most say that are within one spectrum but not nailing themselves down to simply just that label.
Some say that demisexual or asexual make the most sense to them for describing how they feel about their sexuality but I don't think I've seen one person yet say that they are specifically within that rigid label and nothing else. The fluidity of all four categories is what makes the entire topic incredibly interesting.
Gender is totally my thing! And sexuality as well, but gender is just this one thing I'm really interested in. There are so many genders, and we need to make people aware of the concept of non-binary and all the sexual orientations.We should all start by telling the people we know. We have to start somewhere.
I love the labels! The more nuances we get, the easier it might be for people to find their own way. Don't want a label? Don't wear one, but don't remove the possibility for others to do so.I have a friend who identifies as asexual. It was such a relief for her when she, in her late twenties, figured out that she wasn't the only one with absolutely no interest in sex. And it certainly has made it easier for her to explain to her girlfriend.
I welcome any (new) term that makes it easier for someone to be who they are or want to be.
Mod
I am a demisexual, so I thought I would share the below piece of writing as a way of helping some people understand what that actually means.
A demisexual is a person who does not experience sexual attraction unless they form a strong emotional connection with someone. It's more commonly seen in but by no means confined to romantic relationships. The term demisexual comes from the orientation being "halfway between" sexual and asexual.
Nevertheless, this term does not mean that demisexuals have an incomplete or half-sexuality, nor does it mean that sexual attraction without emotional connection is required for a complete sexuality. In general, demisexuals are not sexually attracted to anyone of any gender; however, when a demisexual is emotionally connected to someone else (whether the feelings are romantic love or deep friendship), the demisexual experiences sexual attraction and desire, but only towards the specific partner or partners.
When describing demisexuality as an orientation to sexuals, sexuals often mistake it as an admirable choice rather than an innate orientation. Demisexuals are not choosing to abstain; they simply lack sexual attraction until a close relationship is formed.
According to one hypothetical model, a person who identifies as a demisexual does not experience primary sexual attraction but does experience secondary sexual attraction. In this model, primary sexual attraction is based on outward qualities such as a person's looks, clothes, or personality while secondary sexual attraction is attraction stemming from a connection, usually romantic, or from status or how closely the person is in relationship to the other.
Though factors such as looks and personality do not affect primary sexual attraction for demisexuals (since demisexuals do not experience primary sexual attraction), such factors may affect romantic attraction, as with any other orientation.
"Demisexual" is sometimes out under the gray-A umbrella. Demisexuality differs from gray-asexuality in that demisexuality is a specific sexual orientation in between "sexual" and "asexual", whereas "gray-A" is a highly unspecific catch-all used for anything between sexual and asexual that does not fit.
Demisexuality may make forming romantic or sexual relationships more difficult for some people. Demisexuals often make first impressions with sexuals of being "just friends", which may make them sexually value the relationship less.
Demis may also append a gender orientation to the label, as in "Demi-heterosexual".
I can confirm from my own experiences that I have never just jumped into a relationship. Unlike in the movies where people seem to hit it off right away and exchange numbers, this has not and will not ever happen for me. Every relationship I have had has started from some form of friendship, that friendship typically being one of extreme closeness and openness.
Despite what some people may think, demisexuals can be extremely sexual, it just takes the right person to "unlock" that within them. I know I came off as "frigid" when I was growing up, but I have no shame in admitting I am an extremely sexual person not that I have the right person as my partner.
Confessions of a Demisexual has one important statement which I believe everyone should keep in mind, which says, "Demisexuality is a sexual orientation in which someone feels sexually attracted only to people with whom they have a close emotional bond. It's not a preference, because demisexuals must have that bond to feel sexual attraction. And when there is a bond, the sexual attraction doesn't always follow. The bond just has to be there for sexual attraction to appear at all."
What I find the saddest thing about being a demisexual is that, contrary to popular belief, we are not greatly accepted into the LGBTQ community (despite the fact that we clearly fall under that umbrella). I know I have had people say that I am just frigid, including people who identify as bisexual or homosexual. At the end of the day I wish people would just do what they want and that other people would accept that.
I do not like labels, but I understand why they are currently required in society. I just hope one day people can accept love is love and that who loves who is not subject to some type of category.
Fascinating Savannah, does that mean you could be attracted to ethier sex providing the relationship has been established.
Mod
Interesting question, one which I have never been asked before.
In my own situation, the answer is no. I am a heterodemisexual. However, I see no reason why other men and women could not experience a bidemisexual attraction to other people.
To show you what I mean, take a look at this image:
Sexuality is a broad spectrum in which no two people experience the same thing. Something the author of this blog explains.
Thanks very interesting study, Savannah.
Savannah wrote: "Interesting question, one which I have never been asked before. In my own situation, the answer is no. I am a heterodemisexual. However, I see no reason why other men and women could not experien..."
Thank you for being so open, and for me, you're always welcome in the LGBTQIA+ - group. I've never seen this image, but it explains a lot.
Demisexual or demiromantic alone doesn't imply being able to be attracted to everyone. I'm still not sure if I'm demipanromantic or alloheteroromantic AND demihomoromantic (although since bi- and pan- folks generally say you don't have to be attracted to different genders the same way, I feel like demipanromantic is close enough). There's no separate term for that but the ace community generally recognizes that your attraction can happen differently depending on the gender.
Marina wrote: "Demisexual or demiromantic alone doesn't imply being able to be attracted to everyone. I'm still not sure if I'm demipanromantic or alloheteroromantic AND demihomoromantic (although since bi- and p..."Wow, that's a lot of words to choose from:)
I'm happy when one knows how to label oneself.
This thread is a real eye opener and has answered some personal questions I have had about myself for a long time. Now I know that I am not in fact asexual but demisexual. I always wondered why I never had a one night stand; I knew I wasn't being a prude because I was fine with other people having one night stands, I just knew it wasn't for me and now I know the reason.
Mod
I am also happy to see that I am not alone in many of my thoughts. As I mentioned at the beginning, reading about demisexuality helped me find answers to many of my feelings that did not feel valid. I still think it's very unfortunate to identify as demi in a society such as ours, because it's hard enough already to try and find someone to make it more difficult to yourself due to not being able to take things 'lightly'...and also because most people still will not understand. But I am learning to be OK with that.
Ana, it's great to read you again!I am also constantly reminded that sexual minorities (let's call ourselves that) have it way harder than the average hetero-, cissexual person, either male or female.
I should reread what we wrote here so far...
Do you have any books/resources about demisexuality in general in mind, that you can recommend to me? I'd like to progress more on that.
Michael wrote: "The tl;dr version is basically there are four separate things that make up us as humans in how it relates to gender and sexuality: There is sexuality "heterosexual, homosexual, and the gigantic spectrum between those two and outside of those two"
There is biology "men and women for example"
There is identity "transgender people for example"
There is gender "gender roles either artificial and/or forced by society and such""
Ummmm can I just point out something?
Man and women are gender terms. Male and female are sex (of the body) terms. It's a pet peeve of mine to see them used interchangeably when they are NOT. I think it contributes further to the gross misunderstanding and widespread confusion over thinking somehow gender and sex are the same thing... when they're not. Not at all.
For those who believe in the "split-attraction model" like I do, there is also romantic orientation. Your sexual orientation can be geared towards a certain group, while your romantic orientation can be geared towards a different group. You can be demisexual but not demiromantic, you can be aromantic and also allosexual. You can even be gay (in sexuality) AND panromantic. For example.
So, since I know Bunny gets her data from reading what transgender, nonbinary, and other gender/sexual/romantic minorities have to say about themselves, I'd like to propose something a little different? :3 (Since I also do a lot of research into that myself and have some added help with being a trans man, demisexual, demiromantic, gay, and have a feminine gender expression to boot.)
I would say there are five factors that make up what a human or person is supposed to do, be, and act like in society (in terms of their romantic/sexual/or otherwise relationships with others in their society).
There is sexual orientation, which is all the different orientations possible. Heterosexual, homosexual, asexual, allosexual, bisexual, graysexual, demisexual, pansexual, polysexual, etc.
Important caveat: I would not count fetishes as an "orientation" - such as BDSM, foot fetish, and other things - and especially NOT pedophilia, necrophilia, or bestiality.
There is romantic orientation, which is all the different orientations possible (do note the above caveat, however). Things like heteroromantic, homoromantic, polyromantic, panromantic, biromantic, aromantic, alloromantic, demiromantic, grayromantic, etc.
There is biology, which is male, female, or intersex. And intersex in it's own right is a vast category filled with many different variations, conditions, and diverse body types and shapes and chromosomal arrangements.
There is gender identity**, which is man, woman, genderfluid, genderqueer, agender, pangender, bigender, etc. All the different gender identities.
Important caveat: Don't believe someone if they make a bogus claim about "having the gender of a small child" because they're trying to justify their pedophilia while taking and corrupting terminology often used by and for transgender people.
And there are gender roles, which can be different from your identity. This is what is enforced by society, treated as "always been this way" when that's just total bs and it in truth keeps changing as the people of society change their attitudes and beliefs towards what is "desirable and ideal" in each gender role.
In this society (in America at least) there is an artificial binary set-up, where the society collectively believes that there is ONLY man or woman, male or female, and all personality and behavioral traits are evenly split amongst them with each side getting the exact opposite of the other. And that each side is always "warring" with the other (for some reason??) and must be paired together always (compulsory heterosexuality and heteromanticism) for a "complete" and "balanced" couple or parent group of potential offspring. How arbitrary, closed, and artificial does that sound?!
In any case, that's more what I would classify it as, based on my research to date. :)
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**You may notice I didn't put down transgender in gender identity. That's because it describes a state of your gender not aligning with your body shape/type/assignment, NOT what your gender identity actually is. It's a description of a state of not belonging as well as not matching your assigned sex (ya know that arbitrary letter that doctors stamp once they decided the look of your baby genitals closely matches one of two boxes? Yeah they really do nothing else to determine this. One would wonder why it wasn't obvious before now how inefficient and wrong that can be.)
So transgender people ARE their gender. A trans man IS a man. A trans woman IS a woman. A trans nonbinary such as trans agender IS agender. The "trans" part ONLY signifies that the person was not assigned that particular marker, disagrees with that marker, and declares that their gender is instead a different thing. That's all what "transgender" means. Not even "opposite" gender, no. Just... "different gender." Hell, the "trans" part means (in original Latin) "across/beyond" or "on the other side of [x thing]." Not opposite, just a different side.
And cisgender means you agree with the assignment marker given to you by your doctor after they eyeballed your genitals at birth. It means, more or less, "on this side of" or "this side nearest to [the speaker]" in original Latin. Not a slur, not anything other than "just this side."
Hopefully this clarification may help others!
Indigo wrote: "Michael wrote: "The tl;dr version is basically there are four separate things that make up us as humans in how it relates to gender and sexuality: ..."Thanks for that lengthy description.
Actually had no idea where that Cis thingy came from (not that I would need to as a heteronormative-white-cis-male, man I got all the privilege no idea what to do with it :D).
Gerd wrote: "Indigo wrote: "Michael wrote: "The tl;dr version is basically there are four separate things that make up us as humans in how it relates to gender and sexuality: ..."Thanks for that lengthy descr..."
I love Indigo's explanations, he's good at giving explanations...
(Thanks again for the MOGAI explanation, I love it!)
Mod
There is sexuality "heterosexual, homosexual, an..."
I think I might actually save your whole comment so that I can throw it around to people when I am trying to dismantle their bs. Not even kidding.
Ana wrote: "Indigo wrote: "Michael wrote: "The tl;dr version is basically there are four separate things that make up us as humans in how it relates to gender and sexuality: There is sexuality "heterosexual,...
I think I might actually save your whole comment so that I can throw it around to people when I am trying to dismantle their bs. Not even kidding. "
Me either. Haven't seen such a good explanation ever... Let's dismantle the bs together!
...So. The asexual spectrum & Ace community. I've been reading about it lately and felt curious about your possible thoughts (perhaps even experiences?) on this matter. It's not like I do understand a lot about this topic, but as far as I've been able to read, folks on the ace spectrum often do not have it easy. I know for a fact I have seen plenty of pretty gross, asinine, hurtful comments in social media about this, such as whenever there's a newspaper that will publish an article about them. It's honestly appalling to see that there are quite a lot of people who will mock, disdain or make fun of something that, in the end, is nothing more than yet another trait.
I am actually not that surprised by this negativity, sadly. But it does hurt to think just how very nasty we can be whenever we bump into something that does not fit our lifestyle, thoughts or beliefs. Besides, it's the same old song - sex as something that is so damn important, the be all end all. Well, no. Not necessarily.
Personally, I have been trying to read a bit more on what has been named lately as 'demisexuality'. I find it to be a rather interesting concept, albeit perhaps a little challenging for some. While I do not think I fit the definition to a T, it does explain some of the questions that I have long realised I had no answers for.
Would love to follow the debate on this one!! Particularly because I've missed OSS like crazy lately. :)