The Readers Review: Literature from 1714 to 1910 discussion

1. Chapter VII is one of the shortest in this novel, and it was obvious that the novel is not about the happy ending from the very beginning, but are there any things that surprised you?

2. Is it the story of Renee's unraveling or the story of Aristide Saccard?

3. Why does Maxime not give his father the money he inherited after his wife's death? Is he a true Rougon?

4. I was reading the novel with the haunting feeling that it has the invisible link with Anna Karenina. The two novels were written virtually at the same time - La Curee in 1871-1872, and AK in 1873-1877. Those of you who read AK, do you feel this connection? Do you think Zola could have influenced Leo Tolstoy?

5. How do you rate the novel?

6. So far, we have read three Zola's novels. Which one do you find the most appealing/relatable/engaging?

As usual, I've been behind with the reading but I did a little spurt at the end to catch up.

Initially, I would have said the story was about Renee but at the end I got the impression that she was not a major character. I'm not sure Saccard was entirely the focus either. Usually with novels the characters' story impacts the reader and then the reader searches for deeper themes. In this case, the greed and hypocrisy of the bourgeois society was so blatant and it almost became a character itself and the rest of the characters supported its persona. That's what stood out the most for me.

As Zulfiya connected this novel with Anna Karenina, I was also thinking of another connection with Madame Bovary, which I was reading around the same time as The Kill. I believe Flaubert and Zola were contemporaries.

Of Zola's works, I've only read the first three Rougon-Macquart novels and, surprisingly, my favourite so far has been Son Excellence Eugène Rougon. I loved the introduction to the politics in France at this time as well as Zola's wonderful descriptions. I also enjoyed that we were able to get a deeper sketch of Eugéne Rougon's character, which I think was lacking a little with Saccard in The Kill. After Son Excellence, I felt like I knew Eugene well, yet at the end of The Kill, facets of Saccard's character still remained elusive to me.

I've heard very good reports of all the novels Dagny listed as her four and five stars. We have many to look forward to!

Dagny wrote: "Cleo wrote: "As Zulfiya connected this novel with Anna Karenina, I was also thinking of another connection with Madame Bovary, which I was reading around the same time as The Kill. I believe Flaube…"

That's interesting information, Dagny. I was looking for resemblances while I was reading the two novels. Aside from the basic characters similarities (women, adulteresses, etc.), I thought Zola did a much better job with the development of Renee. Flaubert's Emma, for me at least, did not resemble a real person. It was as if certain character traits were exaggerated to make his story and the themes in it work better. I would have loved to hear Zola's detailed comments about Madame B …… I wanted to like it but really didn't.

I tend to agree with both Cleo and Dagny.

Emma is too much of a social challenge instead of being a character in the novel while Renee, despite Zola's naturalism, is still more relatable as a character than Emma.

On the other hand, it is hard to deny that the trend of a fallen woman in literature became obvious with works of Zola, Flaubert, Dostoevsky, and Tolstoy. Prior to this period, this topic was mostly discussed in the sensational literature, and even Les Liaisons Dangereuses was a semi-sensational novel, but then it became a steady trend in literary fiction.

I also thought of Emma Bovary & Anna Karenina in the last chapter, and I wondered if Renee was going to throw herself in front of a carriage or jump into the river. It seems she really did love Maxime, at least more than she ever loved anyone else. And she was attached to her maid, who turns out to be using her for money just like the rest of society. (But who can blame her? I was happy for the maid, being able to go home, marry, help her family and set up a little business. At least money for her is a means, not an end in itself.)

Maxime knew that his father's money was all made on schemes which couldn't go on indefinitely and he didn't want to be a part of it. He can now marry another rich woman. I wonder if he would have gone back to Renee if she had welcomed him instead of being cold and eventually betraying him. Her spite just assured her misery and loneliness.

The tradition of the novel was that an immoral woman had to come to a bad end, and Zola does throw that in at the very end. But he also shows how much she enjoyed her time with Maxime and how little guilt she felt most of the time. She didn't have seem to have religious scruples, for instance. I wondered why she never got pregnant - a biological issue or did she know some way to avoid it?

The scene with Saccard and the others tromping through the mud sort of symbolizes who they are. They may look clean and gentlemanly on top but underneath they are dirty. The physical mud is paralleled by the moral degradation of the aristocrats, whose antics fascinate the is group of nouveau riche.

This was my favorite of the 3 books we have read so far. It has a smaller cast of main characters and a more continuous narrative.

I think she had a miscarriage. It was mentioned cursorily that she had worn very tight dresses and skirts during her first four or five months of pregnancy that it led to a miscarriage. This is what I remember, but I might be mistaken. It still does not answer why she did not get pregnant again.

I agree with you - I liked this a lot. It has emotions, passions, frustrations, and human drama even if the characters are detached.

As for His Excellency, well, it looked like a black-and-white chronicle rather than a color movie. I appreciated what Zola was trying to do - to show corruption and the 'corridors of power', but it was totally unrelatable ...

I am considering the second part of July.

Jack, my bad. I have been house hunting recently, so I hardly ever had time for Dickens project. I will be posting this weekend.

Thank for understanding, Jack. We are reading L'argent, that is according to the recommended order, right?

Yes, that's what we planned. Thanks!