21st Century Literature discussion

This thread is for discussion of Chapter 1.

Casceil wrote: "This thread is for discussion of Chapter 1."

Thank You Casceil for opening the thread since I was having so much difficulty.

“So many people enter and leave your life! Hundreds of thousands of people! You have to keep the door open so they can come in! But it also means you have to let them go!” Jonathan Safran Foer

I think we could keep this book just one thread. I am super excited to start the discussion. When you go to post and you want to discuss something, but afraid you will give something away.....there is a solution to this problem. There is something that looks like this (some html is ok) typed in the right hand corner. Click on that and choose spoiler to copy and paste in your comment. Type inside of the two spoiler words. When you do this it will look like this.. spoiler: (view spoiler)

Here are some discussion questions if you want to use them.
1. Talk about Oskar—an unusually precious child. Do you find him sympathetic or annoying? Or both?

2. For Shakespeare buffs: Oskar "plays Yorick" (the long dead jester whose skull Hamlet holds in his hand!) in a school production. What is the significance of that role? (See Hamlet: Act V, Scene I, Line 188).

3. Jonathan Safran Foer has said that he writes about characters and their miscommunications: some characters think they're saying a lot but say nothing; others say nothing but end up saying a lot. Which characters fall into which category in Extremely Loud? What might Foer be saying about our ability to communicate deep-seated emotions?

4. Some critics have wondered where Oskar's mother is and how the child is left alone to wander the streets of New York alone at night. Is that a relevant comment? Do you see this book as a work of realism (in which case the mother's role would matter) ... or as more of a fable, on the order, say, of Life of Pi? If the latter, what is Extremely Loud a fable of? (Like Pi, Oskar seems to be a quester—but of what?)

5. Do you find the illustratrions, sribblings, over-written texts, etc. a meaningful, integral part of the work? Or do you find them distracting and gimmicky? Why are they there?

6. How do both main plot and subplot (Oskar's grandfather and the bombing of Dresden) interweave with one another?


Let's get started and have some fun

Kristina wrote: "4. Some critics have wondered where Oskar's mother is and how the child is left alone to wander the streets of New York alone at night. Is that a relevant comment? Do you see this book as a work of realism (in which case the mother's role would matter) ......"

I have only read 5 pages so far and already I'm pretty sure this is not going to bother me. It is an odd book...not the type that you'd want to evaluate the likelihood of everything said and done. I think I am going to like it though!

I also like the beginning. It does not start with the typical setting up the plot. It is oskar thoughts with some boyish humor. I am glad you are enjoying it so far!

I just started this too. I do not find Oscar annoying at all. In fact, I find him a pretty neat kid and Foer has done a great job of creating his character right off the bat. I quite enjoy him and his self awareness. I especially like his term (view spoiler)["heavy boots" when he references things that he finds depressing or hard to cope with (hide spoiler)].

That is a pretty good term, isn't it Jane?

I like that term too. I find Oskar endearing.

I read this book when it was first published and loved it. I thought it was a very engaging 9/11 story, especially from the aspect of a survivor. Why anyone would read this novel and take issue with the mother is missing what is best about the novel. You've got to get into the kid's head and not be an outsider judging the mother.

Linda wrote: "I read this book when it was first published and loved it. I thought it was a very engaging 9/11 story, especially from the aspect of a survivor. Why anyone would read this novel and take issue w..."

I agree with you Linda. When I saw this discussion question I was curious if anyone actually had a problem with the mother. My focus was on Oskar and his interactions and trying to find what he was looking for. I am glad you commented on this.

I've only read the first couple of chapters, but I get the impression this book falls into a category I think of as "orphan" books. Harry Potter is a good example of an orphan book. There are no parents, so Harry is forced to fend for himself. If a major point of the story is what the kid can accomplish on his own, despite the odds, the parents have to be out of the way for some reason. I find this more often in kid's books, where the kids are off having magic adventures in some place they can reach but their parents can't, like Narnia. One other recent example that comes to mind is Tell the Wolves I'm Home by Carol Rifka Brunt, in which the teenaged protagonist is the child of two accountants, and is pretty much on her own during tax season.

The mother may be in the background, but she's fully aware that Oskar is looking for the "Black" name. "After the first few visits she called every Black that he would meet and informed them that Oskar was going to visit and why. In response, the people Oskar met knew ahead of time why he was coming and usually treated him in a friendly manner." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extremel...

She loves Oskar very much, but knows he shows traits of OCD, so she allows him to discover more about his father on his own. She has her own "heavy boots" to bear, but I never questioned her love for Oskar.

My reading of the book was that it was told from Oskar's perception, which is imperfect (as all of our perceptions are). I saw the movie before reading the book, and the movie is more explicit about his mother's role - but then, reading the book, I recall seeing hints along the way that would let you know his mother was involved in the search behind the scenes. In that way I thought the book was very affirming of the basic goodness of humanity - a kid wandering the streets of New York and not only does no harm come to him, but he is embraced by New Yorkers because of the tragedy he has suffered. I enjoyed this book very much - I thought the movie was an excellent (if simplified) adaptation of the novel. I liked the multiple layers of complexity provided in the book, including the different ways Oskar and The Renter handled traumatic events. What did people think about The Renter and his relationship with Oskar and his grandmother?

That whole sub-plot of "the renter" is powerful for me (view spoiler)[ since he's really Oskar's grandfather. (hide spoiler)] He breaks my heart, with his "yes" and "no" marked on his hands:



I thought Max von Sydow was perfect in the film:



Both he and Oskar have been so damaged by their experiences, yet neither gives up.

I am so glad those pictures are up!! The renter tugged on my heart strings just as much as Oskar.

In addition to heavy boots, I also love the image of him zipping up the sleeping bag of himself.

Julie wrote: "In addition to heavy boots, I also love the image of him zipping up the sleeping bag of himself."

Me too Julie

Linda wrote: "I read this book when it was first published and loved it. I thought it was a very engaging 9/11 story, especially from the aspect of a survivor. Why anyone would read this novel and take issue w..."

I also read this when it first came out. I actually got into Oskar's head and didn't even think about the mother. I'm going to enjoy this discussion for many spoiler reasons I can't talk about now.

Julia wrote: "The mother may be in the background, but she's fully aware that Oskar is looking for the "Black" name. "After the first few visits she called every Black that he would meet and informed them that O..."

Shouldn't this be a spoiler?

Shelia wrote: "Julia wrote: "The mother may be in the background, but she's fully aware that Oskar is looking for the "Black" name. "After the first few visits she called every Black that he would meet and inform..."

Since there is only one thread for this, I didn't think of it as a "spoiler" but as part of the background of the book. I'll wait until the end of the month and put up my review. Other book discussions have been divided into parts, so I was a bit confused when this has just one thread.

I DID mark the "spoiler" for the Renter, but this all gets too confusing for me. I'm used to our library book club where everyone has read the book prior to discussion.

I understand the problem, Julia. I think the plan for this discussion was that people would be reading the book around the same time, and commenting as they read, but it appears that many people have already read the entire book. So, I have put up a separate "spoiler thread" for those of you who have finished the book to discuss whatever you like, and the rest of us will either avoid that thread for now or read it at our peril.

:-) Thanks so much Casceil--that does simplify matters! The moderators in this group do such a great job of helping everyone.

I feel terrible. I am new to this group and this is my actual first read with you guys. My other groups only do one thread and just cover spoilers until the end of the month and then let loose. I am so sorry if this wasn't what was supposed to be done. I do hope everybody is enjoying the book regardless on how bad the thread was done.

Kristina wrote: "I feel terrible. I am new to this group and this is my actual first read with you guys. My other groups only do one thread and just cover spoilers until the end of the month and then let loose. I a..."

Not a big deal to do things a little differently - every group has their own way. It was awesome for you to step up and moderate on your first excursion with us!

Well thank you. This is an awesome group with really great nominations and taste in books. I am excited to be a part of it.

Whitney wrote: "...Not a big deal to do things a little differently - every group has their own way. It was awesome for you to step up and moderate on your first excursion with us! ..."

every group has their own way

And it is useful for us to learn from each other -- sometimes gently, sometimes roughly or even painfully -- with the difference sometimes being our own reaction rather than what was really intended by what may have been written. Kristina, thank you for stepping up and moderating this! I agree with Whitney -- I basically consider most, if perhaps not quite all, moderators to be awesome, in some aspect or another.

I am about ten percent of the way into the book and not ready to post yet, but am enjoying following the discussion. I am one of those people who is not certain "spoilers" really need be considered to exist, in the sense of spoiling a read, at least 99% of the time. But, I try to honor that mine seems to be a minority opinion.

Kristina, don't feel bad. You're doing a good job, and you are really helping us out by taking the lead on this one. The most important parts of moderating a discussion are getting the discussion started and keeping it going, and you are doing well with both.

Kristina wrote: "I feel terrible. I am new to this group and this is my actual first read with you guys. My other groups only do one thread and just cover spoilers until the end of the month and then let loose. I a..."

Kristina, you're doing a great job, and I thank you so much. All is well--I'm just sorry I couldn't help out more. This adjustment to being in a retirement community adds a whole new level of my understanding of the Renter and Oskar's grandmother.

Thanks again, Kristina--I tend to agree with Lily that "I am one of those people who is not certain "spoilers" really need be considered to exist, in the sense of spoiling a read, at least 99% of the time." However, my daughter has let me know she feels the opposite. So "it's all good."

Looking back at the original questions, I note the question about scribblings and overwritten text. Since I first read this as an audio book, I did not at first understand! But because I loved the book so much, I later bought a copy for my keeper shelf. I had not looked through the book -- only at the last pages that I had heard so much about. So I just took the book down and see that it is full stuff!

Wow. Is it gimmicky? Could be. The book doesn't need it. But, perhaps it helps provide a clearer picture of what's going on in Oskar's head.

I really liked the unique use of the graphics, which reflect Oskar's unique view of the world. I agree with this observation:

"Never before have I read a book where each line seems to be so carefully thought out and yet carry so much weight, as is the case with Extremely Loud and Incredibly Close. At one point, I began highlighting all the passages I loved and soon realized I was painting the entire book yellow. I’ve bought more copies of this book than any other, mainly because I lend them out to friends and never see them again....What I really admire about Extremely Loud and Incredibly Close is that it breaks all the rules. The book includes photographs and drawings, pages that contain only one sentence, journal entries, and various misspellings to further authenticate the fact that we’re reading a nine-year-old’s ramblings. It’s these little nuances that pull us into the story more and make it feel almost interactive."
http://gregsaltiel.com/editorials/all...

Julia wrote: "At one point, I began highlighting all the passages I loved and soon realized I was painting the entire book yellow...."

I don't normally highlight but this book is certainly giving me the urge! Unfortunately, it is a library book so I am not going to do that. Then I thought I should be writing some stuff down and even thought I should start over, in order to go back and do that. So yeah, I agree with this about lots of good passages.

Okay, I have read the ebook version of this, but I think I'm going to have go retrieve the printed copy if I'm going to appreciate what Foer has done here.

Good idea, Lily--I have it in hardcover and paperback, so that I could do my highlighting "thing" in one and keep the other clear. Foer already has so much marked up--the first time I saw these pages, I thought someone had vandalized the bookstore!!

Julia wrote: "Foer already has so much marked up--the first time I saw these pages, I thought someone had vandalized the bookstore!!..."

I got my copy from the library and thought someone had written in it too! I put it back and took one of the other copies before I realized it is supposed to be that way.

Finished this up this morning. You can read my review HERE

I'm off to find the spoiler thread and answer some of the discussion questions.

Julia wrote: "Good idea, Lily--I have it in hardcover and paperback, so that I could do my highlighting "thing" in one and keep the other clear. Foer already has so much marked up--the first time I saw these pag..."

I'm so glad someone brought this up! I did have a library copy that was marked up, but that was in blue ink, and interesting things were underlined. But this letter.... Wha? I missed the point. Did anyone figure out what the markings were supposed to add to the story?

Angie wrote: "But this letter.... Wha? I missed the point. Did anyone figure out what the markings were supposed to add to the story?"

Not really sure, but these are the kinds of markings that Oskar's dad made on the New York Times with his red pen. Perhaps this letter, which Thomas Sr. wrote to Thomas Jr., was actually mailed. Perhaps it's a way to incorporate multiple layers of characters with the inclusion of the letter. Really not sure.

The burning question for me was did anyone figure out what Thomas Sr. was trying to say to his wife with all those numbers when he called from the airport?

Kristina wrote: "1. Talk about Oskar—an unusually precious child. Do you find him sympathetic or annoying? Or both?..."

I absolutely loved Oskar! All the weird inventing things that went through his head....I found them to be awesome and/or funny. And sometimes very sad.