Catching up on Classics (and lots more!) discussion

Ayush wrote: "Hi guys! I am considering buying the book, "The Brothers Karamazov" by Fyodor Dostoevsky.
My issue is related to the Translation. Which translation maintains balance between the original text and ..."

This article does a pretty good comparison.

https://welovetranslations.com/2022/0...

I'm not sure if this is the thread or discussion to post this or if it has ever been covered before but I've always felt like the rating system has always needed half stars (i.e. 2.5 stars instead of 2, 3.5 instead of 3, etc.) for reviews. I feel like there is a big jump between something like 3 stars and 4 stars, for instance. Does anyone else read a book and say to them themselves, "Well, I definitely don't think this book is 4 stars, but I don't think it's 3 either?" or something along those lines? Has anyone else felt conflicted between which rating point to give a review?

Franky wrote: "I'm not sure if this is the thread or discussion to post this or if it has ever been covered before but I've always felt like the rating system has always needed half stars (i.e. 2.5 stars instead ..."

Many readers have shared your idea. It is a long running gripe among GR members. Alternate book sites have offered the feature of half a star. But GR remains the 800 pound gorilla.

If I can't decide on a 2.5 rating, I fall back to 2 stars="it was ok" and 3 stars="I liked it." I can like a 2.5\5.0 book.

Maybe it's different now, but when I joined Goodreads (16 years ago) it was... 1=hated it, 2=didn't like it, 3=liked it, 4=really liked it, 5=loved it. So I've always rated books according to that.

At present when you hover over the stars:

1 = did not like it
2 = it was ok
3 = liked it
4 = really liked it
5 = it was amazing

Franky wrote: “I’m not sure if this is the thread or discussion to post this or if it has ever been covered before but I’ve always felt like the rating system has always needed half stars (i.e. 2.5 stars instead ...”

To me, that’s just turning a 5-point scale into a 10-point scale. I’m not necessarily opposed to it, but I think a 5-point scale is sufficient.

On another site ( https://thestorygraph.com ), they actually allow quarter-stars. I never use the half-stars there, but I will bump a rating up or down .25 in order to reflect the “strength” of my rating. So 2.75 = “3 stars, but barely,” and 3.25 = “solidly 3 stars.” Kind of like letter grades that use plus or minus along with the letter.

Looking at my ratings from all of last year, I guess I tend to use those a lot in the 3–4 range.

Katy wrote: "At present when you hover over the stars:

1 = did not like it
2 = it was ok
3 = liked it
4 = really liked it
5 = it was amazing"

So my 2 star ratings are off then. Oh well. Mostly I rate 3 or 4 stars.

Rora wrote: "Maybe it's different now, but when I joined Goodreads (16 years ago) it was... 1=hated it, 2=didn't like it, 3=liked it, 4=really liked it, 5=loved it. So I've always rated books according to that."

That's the scale I use Rora, even though it's not technically correct. Seems unfair to switch my scale after already rating so many.

One wonders if anyone reads what GR or Amazon or any other rating system uses as text w a 5 star system. Five stars seems to have become fairly common, maybe near universal.
Ignoring that GR allows for no stars, some use that to mean , I do not Rate. others, it was not worth even 1 star.

Assume you are someone who looks for stars, and try to think the way they might
1 very bad, 5 very good and the rest shades in between.

Mean time I have read of ppl who automatically assume a 5 star is from family or from the company,

For a while I looked at the average, and it seems almost everything averages over 4 and if between 3 and 4 , likely there are not many reviews.

I've seen a lot of reviews 2.25, 3.75, 2.75, etc. It just seems that if there are half-star ratings, eventually someone will want quarter-star ratings. So, I'm okay with the rating system as it is. An overall rating never influenced my decision to read a book or not anyway. I'll want to see for myself.

I hadn't known about the Goodreads definitions of ratings until after I had started rating books, so I used my own system, which was something like this:

1 = deeply flawed or almost unreadable. I often can't finish books in this category, so many end up unrated.
2 = flawed, not particularly enjoyable, or barely competent writing
3 = good enough to finish but not special
4 = well worth reading and noteworthy because of quality of writing, style or content
5 = memorable because of quality of writing, style or content and will stay with me always. A personal classic.

I stop using enjoyable for 3-5 because I enjoy the books in each of these categories.

Ben wrote: "I hadn't known about the Goodreads definitions of ratings until after I had started rating books, so I used my own system, which was something like this:

1 = deeply flawed or almost unreadable. I ..."

Ben, I like your definitions of each of the rating points. I feel the same way, especially about a 3 star being really just mediocre at best.

I guess the good thing about the 5 star system is that it forces us to choose and stick to our guns about how we feel about a book.

Putting this question here because I'm not sure where else to put it 😂

What's the best way to go about reading Russian Literature, in particular Dostoyevsky and Tolstoy? I've read Notes from Underground cover to cover and BRIEFLY skimmed through The Brothers K for a book club, but I just can't for the life of me dig very far into these deep pieces of literature.

I ask because I have a lot of highly intelligent people in my life who absolutely GUSH about books like Anna Karenina or The Idiot, and I love reading classics and really want to have some deep discussions about these books with them, but I don't get what I'm missing exactly, and I simply cannot get more than 40 pages into The Adolescent without giving up.

How does everyone read these books? Do I need to take notes? Are there video lectures or breakdowns people have been using this entire time without me knowing? I refuse to believe I'm simply not cut out for these books, and even if it's not my "taste" I still want to be able to get what the authors are trying to get at

First, I'd say that the great 19th century Russian novelists are all very different from each other. You might find yourself more attuned to Tolstoy than Dostoevsky, as I am.

But if you're determine to start with Dostoevsky, I'd recommend Crime and Punishment over the two you've attempted. It has a much more focused plot and theme and it's easily understandable without aids. It's one of my favourite books.

I love Anna Karenina and War and Peace, which have magnificent characters, themes and writing, but they are big commitments. Tolstoy also wrote some magnificent shorter stories. You might try The Kreutzer Sonata, The Death of Ivan Ilych and Haji Murad as a starter.

And don't ignore Chekhov, possibly the greatest short story writer ever.

All of these are very human, understandable books. Enjoy!

Caleb wrote: "Putting this question here because I'm not sure where else to put it 😂

What's the best way to go about reading Russian Literature, in particular Dostoyevsky and Tolstoy? I've read Notes from Under..."

(cross-posted!)

Hi Caleb! Just so happens I'm right now reading A Swim in a Pond in the Rain: In Which Four Russians Give a Master Class on Writing, Reading, and Life, and getting so much out of it! But assuming you don't want that deep of a dive, I have some suggestions.

1)Don't start with Dostoevsky! He's the hardest, in my opinion.

2)If you're interested in Tolstoy, try just reading Anna Karenina that your friends rave about, just like any other book. It's very readable, and the only tip is to make a list you can refer to of the characters and all of their different names. Maybe read something online about Russian naming conventions and nicknames to get familiar with how it all works. Once you get the characters down, it's really a page-turner. Again, SO different than Dostoevsky in my opinion.

3)If you're looking for some help from videos, I like Benjamin McEvoy, and he has one called Where to Start with Russian Literature here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LFjFF...

4) You could try short stories. I just read Tolstoy's Master and Man and thought it was fantastic and not hard at all to understand.

My own experience started with my brother recommending The Idiot to me as a place to start. I liked it okay, and it's probably one of the easiest Dostoevsky books to get into, but didn't love it. Then later I just picked up War and Peace and was shocked at how easy it was to read and how wonderful it was.

Most of all--don't give up! I'm sure others here will have ideas for you too, and soon you'll be enjoying all of these books. (Well maybe not The Brothers Karamazov. I've struggled through it multiple times, and still can't say I enjoy it!)

This was a great question which someone could write a book answering. While opening a book and reading for enjoyment seems simple enough and is simple enough, I look at the art of reading as an acquired skill and like any other skill requires you to practice and and gain experience before you are able to move from whatever level you are at present to whatever level comes next. Part of that skill is from a familiarity of what came before what you are reading so you can appreciate what the author is adding new. So like the above posts said, you would want to start with a work written at a level you can understand. Most of us can probably relate more to Crime and Punishment because it is a psychological novel where the character is a young man learning about himself and his relationship to the greater world.

If you wish to read the Russians, I recommend A Swim in a Pond in the Rain: In Which Four Russians Give a Master Class on Writing, Reading, and Life by George Saunders. Saunders teachers creative writing and his approach through the reading of short stories by Russian masters will help make you a more appreciative reader at whatever level you are. Plus the stories he uses as examples aren't bad.

I agree that Crime and Punishment is a good place to start.

Do NOT skim. Read it normally. Notes are not needed. Dostoevsky is very clear but you need to follow his pace.

For Leo Tolstoy start with The Death of Ivan Ilych.

Mikhail Bulgakov is more complicated but also more funny: Start with The Master and Margarita or Heart of a Dog.

Nikolai Gogol: The Overcoat or The Nose. Both are very short. We very recently read The Overcoat in this group. If you wish to discuss and you post in that tread, people will likely still respond.

If you want just one single book and author suggestion, I say start with The Death of Ivan Ilych. It is accessible, very, very good and short.

Oh my word, I wasn't expecting so many responses! Thanks everyone for the advice!

I've just subscribed to Benjamin McEvoy, and I'll be bingeing his videos very shortly 😂

Awesome, I'll start with The Death of Ivan Ilych since I need a quick read to get me back into the swing of things. Crime & Punishment and Anna Kareninia will be next, and I'll be looking into A Swim in a Pond in the Rain: In Which Four Russians Give a Master Class on Writing, Reading, and Life, as I'm ironically a writer too and am always looking for advice in that respect. I've added all the others to my ever-growing TBR list.

Thanks again everyone!

I'm hoping this question is okay to post here (the answer would contain spoilers).

I finished reading Bel-Ami by Guy de Maupassant yesterday, and I cannot get the ending out of my mind. My initial interpretation was in-line with the surprise ending of de Maupassant's The Necklace, but I don't see it discussed anywhere. Has anyone read this story and tell me what you think of the ending? I could not put this book down, and I kept waiting for retribution, but I don't know...

Shirley (stampartiste) wrote: "I'm hoping this question is okay to post here (the answer would contain spoilers).

I finished reading Bel-Ami by Guy de Maupassant yesterday, and I cannot get the endi..."

Hi Shirley,

I am not sure which discussion you were looking for
.

"The Necklace" https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...

Bel-Ami I am surprised that this book is not on our Group Bookshelf. Honestly, I thought it was. I also could not find a thread for it.

Lynn

Lynn wrote: "Bel-Ami I am surprised that this book is not on our Group Bookshelf. Honestly, I thought it was. I also could not find a thread for it..."

Thank you, Lynn, for your response. It is the ending of Bel-Ami I am looking for. Rarely has a character made me feel like he deserves his just desserts. The ending is very ambiguous to me, but I have not been able to find any discussion anywhere on it. I'm hoping my interpretation was the right one, but I'm not sure. It's only because I know how de Maupassant likes final twists, that I hope I'm right.

Yes, it deserves to be read by this group. It is an amazing indictment on 19th century French morality (at least in the bourgeoisie). I could not put it down.

Shirley (stampartiste) wrote: "Lynn wrote: "Bel-Ami I am surprised that this book is not on our Group Bookshelf. Honestly, I thought it was. I also could not find a thread for it..."

Thank you, Lynn, for your response. It is th..."

You're welcome.

Hello there ! I like to see each month what you suggest on classics. Sometimes I read one or I might be reading something else.
My question is does everyone read the 5 suggestions each month? Or you pick one or two?

Veronica wrote: "...My question is does everyone read the 5 suggestions each month? Or you pick one or two?..."

I think everyone is different. I only choose 1 -2 to read each month. Occasionally I will try to read more if the books really interest me.

Every month differs for me, Veronica. Some months I read several and some months none at all. I do try to participate if it is a book I have not already read. I hope you will join the discussions on any of the books that catch your interest.

I almost always read the short story (unless I already read it). I also read whatever I am interested in, usually 1-2 books.

For instance this month I am reading Les Misérables, I will read The Eyes and The Body in the Library as soon as I finish Les Misérables. Next month definitely A Hunger Artist. Maybe The Death of Ivan Ilych (I have already read it).

BTW for next month it is The Death of Ivan Ilych not The Death of Ivan Ilych and Other Stories as is currently shown on the shelf:
https://www.goodreads.com/group/books...

That is incorrect, J_Blueflower. The book we are reading is The Death of Ivan Ilych and Other Stories. It includes the other stories as was nominated and selected by the voters.

Veronica, if you wish to only read some of the stories, or only the title story, please feel free to participate in the discussion. We'd all love to hear your thoughts.

Sara wrote: "That is incorrect, J_Blueflower. The book we are reading is The Death of Ivan Ilych and Other Stories. It includes the other stories as was nominated and selected by the voters.

Veronic..."

I had presumed this only was for the title story as well. I encourage someone to list the stories included to account for the difference in editions since I will be sourcing them elsewhere.

Duh! I see it has already been done.

The stories are listed in the no-spoiler thread. I put them there on August 13th. They were taken from the oldest version that I could locate and are those most commonly included in collections titled as "other stories". I will also list them in the spoiler thread when it is posted. If someone is using a different collection and wishes to discuss a story not included in my list, that will be fine.

Most of the members of the group have probably already read the title story, so this gives some of us a chance to read and discuss new material. The book voted on at the polls was The Death of Ivan Ilych and Other Stories and garnered some votes because of the inclusion of the "other stories".

Sara wrote: "The stories are listed in the no-spoiler thread. I put them there on August 13th. They were taken from the oldest version that I could locate and are those most commonly included in collections tit..."

Thanks Sara, I did not notice you had done so when I posted bu quickly amended my post.

I have posted the information above in the no spoiler thread and we should continue our discussion there for the benefit of everyone who might be considering this read.

Sara wrote: "The book we are reading is The Death of Ivan Ilych and Other Stories. It includes the other stories as was nominated and selected by the voters...."

Oh, sorry. I did not realise that. I though the collection would be against the omnibus rule. Thank you for listening they in the non-spoiler tread. I have some homework to do now ;-)

Veronica wrote: "Hello there ! I like to see each month what you suggest on classics. Sometimes I read one or I might be reading something else.
My question is does everyone read the 5 suggestions each month? Or y..."

Good question Veronica. I know that I won't read all five. I try to always read the short story and then pick one of the novels. Sometimes I read one or two other things that month as well. Often I will try to read one of the novels from previous years.

I am not receiving GR emails. Anyone else having this trouble?

Terris wrote: "I am not receiving GR emails. Anyone else having this trouble?"

You are not alone. I am receiving here:
https://www.goodreads.com/message/inb...
but not in email.

They are having some trouble? The last few days this page
https://www.goodreads.com/topic/
did not work.

Yes, and I hate it, Terris. As usual they are fixing what isn't broken.

J_BlueFlower wrote: "Terris wrote: "I am not receiving GR emails. Anyone else having this trouble?"

You are not alone. I am receiving here:
https://www.goodreads.com/message/inb...
but not in email...."

Thanks, J! I hope they get it fixed soon!!

Sara wrote: "Yes, and I hate it, Terris. As usual they are fixing what isn't broken."

I know! I feel like I'm missing out on a lot of conversations!
I miss everyone! I'll try to look in on some of the group threads.
Thanks, Sara, for feeling my pain! ;)

Try this page
https://www.goodreads.com/topic/
It shows your groups with newest activity on top. Click
"expand..." or "All unread posts" to see more.

I use that to follow what I am interested in.

It's not a bug. It's intentional. This is from the Help section. https://help.goodreads.com/s/announce...

"We’ve simplified the way we notify you about activity on Goodreads. Within Account Settings, we’ve moved the notification settings to a new Notifications page.

Some notifications have been updated to only alert you on Goodreads and can no longer also be sent via email:
When one of your groups is about to start reading a book
When a Goodreads member answers your question for Goodreads Q&A
Reminding you to write a review for a Giveaway you’ve won
Requests to join your group.
Notification settings can only be modified on desktop and any changes you make will appear on the iOS or Android app. For steps to change or review the updated notification settings, see How do I edit my notification settings?"

How is that an improvement? I guess they rather have activity on the webpage than people reading emails.

It seems that GR has turned off all notifications - email and others. I'm trying to scroll through everything as to not miss the conversations.

It's a mess 😭 no more emails, only notifications but only if you check the box at the end of each discussion. I am going from a group to another, jumping here and there, I am very confused.

I'm still getting all my non-email notifications, but I mostly use the web interface rather than the app. I haven't noticed any difference yet in which discussions or groups give me notifications. They all are still working.

But it's possible GR just hasn't put my account through the changes yet.

Not sure, Ben. It turned off all my notifications, so I have to turn them back on, one-by-one. Pain in the proverbial.

Sara wrote: “Not sure, Ben. It turned off all my notifications, so I have to turn them back on, one-by-one. Pain in the proverbial.”

I don’t usually check that box. But I know I also have at least a few that have been switched off.

Oh, no. You mean all the "Notify me when people comment"? Deep sigh. I have a load of requests over in the Goodreads Librarians Group. Some of them more than a year old and still not handled. Guess I will never know now.

I imagine we will all be pulling hair for a while, J. I'm trying to just make the adjustment, because I know the powers that be will not listen to us.