The Pickwick Club discussion

Chapter 1. (1812-1822). Childhood.
Chapter 2. (1822-1824). Hard Experiences in Boyhood.
Chapter 3. (1824-1830). School-Days and Start in Life.
Chapter 4. (1831-1835). Reporters' Gallery and Newspaper Literature.
Chapter 5. (1836). First Book, and Origin of Pickwick.
Chapter 6. (1837). Writing the Pickwick Papers.
Chapter 7. (1837-1838). Between Pickwick and Nickleby.

"Born at Landport in Portsea on Friday, the 7th of February, 1812" (Forster 22).

The story about Gadshill Place is interesting. Dickens' father told him he could live there if he worked hard. From 9 years old, Dickens held on to that dream and brought it to fruition. Quite a motivating story.

What do you think of Dickens reading list (Forster 23)?

Roderick Random
Peregrine Pickle
Humphrey Clinker
Tom Jones
The Vicar of Wakefield
Don Quixote
Gil Blas
Robinson Crusoe
The Arabian Nights
Tales of Genii

Out of those, I have only read Tom Jones, Don Q (partly), and Arabian Nights (partly).

Dickens first work as a child was Misnar, the Sultan of India, based on the Tales of Genii. I wonder if there is an extant copy.

I'm really enjoying reading this, especially the gorgeous annotated/illustrated version I'm reading (from my library). Although I must admit, Forster's writing is not easy. Loooong sentences - sometimes I feel as if I need to diagram them to understand. Instead, just going with the flow to get the gist. :)

Suzy wrote: "I'm really enjoying reading this, especially the gorgeous annotated/illustrated version I'm reading (from my library). Although I must admit, Forster's writing is not easy. Loooong sentences - some..."

I agree. His prose is not exactly easy to read, but I do not think it is as difficult as Dickens'. I have "The Illustrated Edition" too, if that's the one about which you are talking. I love the pictures.

Me too!

It's quite difficult to read because of the long sentences, I sometimes don't make out the point!

Jenine wrote: "Me too!

It's quite difficult to read because of the long sentences, I sometimes don't make out the point!"

If you find a part that is particularly unclear, feel free to post it here, and we can talk about it.

Jonathan wrote: "Suzy wrote: "I'm really enjoying reading this, especially the gorgeous annotated/illustrated version I'm reading (from my library). Although I must admit, Forster's writing is not easy. Loooong sen..."

I also love the excerpts from books used to add to Forster's text and am wondering if they have been added in this illustrated edition or they were part of the original. My hunch has been that they have been added, but I did wonder.

Suzy, I wondered that too. I think they have been added, I will check my Delphi version.

Forster says that Dickens' never forgave his mother for sending him to work at the blacking factory. In Dickens' own words, he says, "I never afterwards forgot, I never shall forget, I never can forget, that my mother was warm for my being sent back.” (40)

What are we to make of this? Do you think this is reflected in any of his characters? It seems Dickens' mothers are good for the most part.

I'm not sure about how he portrays mothers, but so many children are in disadvantaged situations from poverty or oppression. I think that's the thing about his childhood that most comes out in the books. Also, I'm reading Great Expectations (still!!) and Pip's aunt is a great example of a cruel mother figure.

Suzy wrote: "I'm not sure about how he portrays mothers, but so many children are in disadvantaged situations from poverty or oppression."

That's true. Come to think of it many of Dickens' main characters do not have mothers. (i.e. Oliver Twist, Little Nell, Pip, Lucie Manette.)

I am finding that the Delphi Illustrated Classics on my Kindle Fire is longer even than my "Illustrated Edition" hardcover. And, it does not have the excerpts from the novels.

One of the themes of this section is that Dickens did not receive an education commensurate with his success. Is this true of a lot of well-known authors? For example, when we consider Shakespeare, with what little we know of his life, it seems his ordinary education could never have precipitated his overwhelming success.

Another theme is that Dickens seemed to always think more highly of himself than his present set of circumstances would indicate. Is this a key to success? Must we believe that we are destined for better things in order to achieve them?

I agree with this. The way Pip accepted his improved circumstances as though he deserved them, and the despicable way he treated his mentor until the very end.

Question, I am new to the group: which life of Charles Dickens are you reading?

The one written by John Forster!

How may books have you discussed to this date?

Jonathan wrote: "I am finding that the Delphi Illustrated Classics on my Kindle Fire is longer even than my "Illustrated Edition" hardcover. And, it does not have the excerpts from the novels."

The illustrated edition is abridged, so that may be why the Delphi is longer. I'm glad to be exploring the new one - the beauty of the book adds to the enjoyment.

To Jonathan's point about education, the passage on p.44 struck me.

"Pray, Mr. Dickens, where was your son educated?" "Why, indeed, sir 'ha!ha! - he may be said to have educated himself!" Of the two kinds of education which Gibbons says that all men who rise above the common level receive, - the first, that of his teachers, and the second, more personal and more important, his own, - he had the advantage of only the last.

I think that many brilliant artists of all kinds are born into difficult or unusual circumstances from which they learn and use in their art. I'm thinking authors, musicians, visual artists, singers whose work is rich and teeming with things that touch the hearts and minds of people. Art which is rich because of their experience, something they would not receive in formal education. In Dicken's case, he experienced so much - the good, the bad and the ugly - that he turned right around and used in his works. It seems like he had a tremendous openness to everything that he could store away and use in a story. Inspiring!

Arlene wrote: "How may books have you discussed to this date?"

The last novel we read was Great Expectations. We are reading the novels of Dickens in order, so the next one will be Our Mutual Friend. Once we finish his oeuvre, we will start over, but we can discuss the order and decide on what is best.

Suzy wrote: "Art which is rich because of their experience, something they would not receive in formal education."

I agree with this. IMO, if his education were switched around and he was more formally educated, but did not go through the hard times, I do not think he would have been as great of a writer.

Arlene wrote: "Question, I am new to the group: which life of Charles Dickens are you reading?"

Welcome to the group Arlene. If you have a Kindle you should be able to get "The Life of Charles Dickens" by John Forster for free. A lot of us are reading the Illustrated Edition, which you can get from Amazon. Forster was real close with Dickens and thus the biography gives us some great insight.

Jonathan wrote: "Arlene wrote: "Question, I am new to the group: which life of Charles Dickens are you reading?"

Welcome to the group Arlene. If you have a Kindle you should be able to get "The Life of Charles Dic..."

Butting in, I got The Illustrated Edition from my library and since it's not being requested by anyone else, I have it for 9 weeks. So you can see if you library has it Arlene.

I already ordered an unillustrated copy from Amazon. Let me know which boring parts I should skip. Just joking.
Where should we be up to in Great Expectations? I've read it several times and can't wait to discuss it. Have you done A Tale of Two Cities already? Also a favorite of mine.

Arlene wrote: "I already ordered an unillustrated copy from Amazon. Let me know which boring parts I should skip. Just joking.
Where should we be up to in Great Expectations? I've read it several times and can't..."

We have but we will do it again someday. Perhaps, after Drood, we can vote on which novel to do. We do not have to do them in order again.

Arlene wrote: "I already ordered an unillustrated copy from Amazon. Let me know which boring parts I should skip. Just joking. "

For me, the action really picked up around chapter 5, when Forster began talking about the origination of Pickwick and the Sketches of Boz.

I just started reading and I'm struck by two things about the child Dickens. He emphasizes in his talks with Forster and in his autobiography, how "pathetic he was. He considers several times how others view him. In the first chapters I wanted to see, what early sensitivities made him the author he became. I'd argue for these.

Have any of you read "Death and Mr. Pickwick" by Stephen Jarvis? It's a dramatization of the life of Robert Seymour, the original artist behind "The Pickwick Papers." The novel postulates that his suicide was, in part, because Dickens stole his idea and made money at his expense. I have no idea if the scholarship behind this narrative actually exists, but I could not get the novel out of my head reading the chapters about Seymour and Dickens' adamant insistence that he'd only met the guy once and that was that.

I didn't understand this reference to "the proposal that originated Pickwick " when I first read it, and now, given this stunning (to me) news, I can understand why. Forster seems to leave something out.

"He had purchased the magazine at a shop in the Strand; and exactly two years afterwards, in the younger member of a publishing firm who had called, at the chambers in Furnival's Inn to which he had moved soon after entering the gallery, with the proposal that originated Pickwick, he recognized the person he had bought that magazine from, and whom before or since he had never seen.”