Reading the Detectives discussion

This is our March read for the Miss Marple Challenge.

The Moving Finger was published in 1943. Please avoid posting spoilers in this thread. Thank you.

Have just finished this and like the previous 3 books, I have thoroughly enjoyed it. It has been many years since I read all these books and I'm just really loving the challenge.

This is one of my Favourite Christie's and I think I re-read it every year :D so glad to be reading it now!

A good mystery. Poison pen letters, a murder and quite an array of characters, Miss Marple having only a cameo role.

I have gotten the audiobook from my library for this - I look forward to rereading this one as my memory of it is hazy.

The main difference in this novel was Miss Marple's much lesser role. Saying that, I loved this very much. I was reminded of modern day internet trolls - the modern version of poison pen letter writers!

Susan wrote: "The main difference in this novel was Miss Marple's much lesser role. Saying that, I loved this very much. I was reminded of modern day internet trolls - the modern version of poison pen letter wri..."
I also found myself thinking of the Five Findouters and their spiteful letters case- and this being a more grown-up version.

Ah, yes! Good memories, Lady. Enid Blyton was, I know, the author that introduced so many of us to mysteries :)

Poison pens seem to crop up quite a lot in GA mysteries - wonder if there were many of them in real life?

I enjoyed this too but not quite as much as the previous two... I would have liked to see more of Miss Marple! I liked Jerry telling the story in the first person, like the vicar in the first book.

Judy wrote: "Poison pens seem to crop up quite a lot in GA mysteries - wonder if there were many of them in real life?

I enjoyed this too but not quite as much as the previous two... I would have liked to see..."
Both Jerry and the Vicar do a little amateur detecting too- though jerry more without realising what he's picked up on.

Judy wrote: "Poison pens seem to crop up quite a lot in GA mysteries - wonder if there were many of them in real life?

I enjoyed this too but not quite as much as the previous two... I would have liked to see..."

And on Poison Pens, perhaps they were- I remember something in Arthur and George in Barnes book and the case it was based on had these too.

I'm surprised at Miss Marple's very late entry into the book. In the TV version with Joan Hickson, she was worked into the beginning of the book quite naturally. I wonder whether Christie didn't want to over-do her, given that this book is close on the heels of the previous, publication-wise.

Even with her late arrival she pulls all the clues together very quickly!

I'm about halfway and keep thinking where's Miss Marple. I am enjoying it though.

I liked the narration by Jerry, but can understand readers missing Miss Marple.

This is one of my favorite Miss Marple books. I love the story told from an outsider's point of view.

Just collected this from the library so ready to go!

As I said earlier, I thoroughly enjoyed it, even with Miss Marple's late appearance. It was interesting told from Jerry's pop and that made the tale move forward very quickly for some reason. You just wanted to find out what happened next.
I think I've actually enjoyed the short stories the most so far (controversial I know) !!

In the full length ones, I find one has more time and chances to pick up the clues and try and guess whodunit (even if one gets it wrong all the time) unlike the short ones.

I think short stories depend on how much you read/like them generally. I rarely read them and I find them less enjoyable generally than novels. However, if I am reading them for a challenge - such as the Miss Marple or Dorothy L Sayers collections - I find it works best to read one a day. Otherwise, I find they run into each other and I get confused - which is undoubtedly a fault of mine and not the author...

What does everyone think of Mr. Pye, supposedly one of Agatha Christie's gay characters?

Susan wrote "I think short stories depend on how much you read/like them generally. I rarely read them and I find them less enjoyable generally than novels. However, if I am reading them for a challenge - such as the Miss Marple or Dorothy L Sayers collections - I find it works best to read one a day."

I entirely agree, although I was reading at a bout 2 or 3 a night :) much to my wife's chagrin.

LovesMysteries wrote "What does everyone think of Mr. Pye, supposedly one of Agatha Christie's gay characters?"

You know, I hadn't remembered Mr Pye at all, but I suppose he was the epitome of what was allowed at the time, so I feel it was brave of Ms Christie to include a character so risky (risqué) at all.

LovesMysteries wrote: "What does everyone think of Mr. Pye, supposedly one of Agatha Christie's gay characters?"

It's a stereotyped portrayal I thought - not surprising for the period but disappointing from Christie since in general I'm getting the feeling she was more open to a wide range og people than some GA writers.

I think because of the time it was written people had to be careful after all homosexuality was still a crime and if you are seen to be condoning crime ......

Christianna Brand had an even more stereotypical character in one of her novels. I think Mr Pye fared better by comparison, but that is not saying much.

Susan wrote: "Christianna Brand had an even more stereotypical character in one of her novels. I think Mr Pye fared better by comparison, but that is not saying much."

We assume that Mr. Pye is gay because of the outward stereotypical characteristics but maybe he isn't at all?

LovesMysteries wrote: "Susan wrote: "Christianna Brand had an even more stereotypical character in one of her novels. I think Mr Pye fared better by comparison, but that is not saying much."

We assume that Mr. Pye is ga..."

That's a very good point :)

Deborah wrote: "LovesMysteries wrote: "Susan wrote: "Christianna Brand had an even more stereotypical character in one of her novels. I think Mr Pye fared better by comparison, but that is not saying much."

We as..."True- its for readers to interpret as they will.

But AC does have some stereotypical portrayals at times- the foreigners in The Secret of Chimneys for instance (though on the other hand, Poirot counters that in a way by using stereotyping to his advantage)

Yes, I think stereotypes were just typical in that era. They appear in the Wimsey novels too and so were widely used. Of course, they rely upon readers recognising the expected traits, which undoubtedly appeared in newspapers, on stage, etc.

I agree, Susan. Unless you were white and American/British, there was a stereotype; the buffoonish African American, the shifty Italian, the inscrutable and opium smoking Chinese, and the list goes on. Those stereotypes appear in many of the books of the 1920-1940s and they certainly jar the modern sensibilities. But they were acceptable in those days.....thanks heavens we have gotten past that in modern day writing.

I've just been looking up information about the book on Wikipedia, and was intrigued to see this:

"Most American editions of The Moving Finger have been abridged by about 9000 words to remove sections of chapters, and strongly resemble the Collier's serialisation which, mindful of the need to bring the magazine reader into the story quickly, begins without the leisurely introduction to the narrator's back-story that is present in the British edition, and lacks much of the characterisation throughout. "

It seems a shame if US readers are getting short measure here! The writing seems quite tight to me, so I'm not sure how such a big chunk could be missed out?

Was that at the time, or is it still the case? It isn't a long novel. I suppose they felt US readers would not be interested in Jerry's flying wartime activities. Remember, they were, understandably, not keen to being dragged into another European conflict, so this may have been considered propaganda.

Out of interesr, I am currently reading The Irregulars: Roald Dahl and the British Spy Ring in Wartime Washington for another Goodreads group, about British undercover spies, sent in to try to drag the US into the war. Who knew Roald Dahl was a spy?!

I, in the US, don't remember any discussion of Jerry's wartime activities, so it was probably an abridged version (or my memory fails).

Interesting that Roald Dahl spied in the US. I've read (on audio) his memoir Going Solo about becoming a pilot, as well as Boy, his school days.

Me neither- I think the version I read also excluded this.

I've just been looking at a discussion of this on agathachristie.com, where it's said the original US edition was edited to save paper during WWII. The 2011 Harper US edition is a full text but earlier editions are the shortened version.

According to this discussion, you can tell the difference because the UK version begins "When at last I was taken out of the plaster, and the doctors had pulled me about to their hearts’ content..." whereas the US version starts with an anonymous letter arriving.

I couldn't find this version online to compare but did find a Collins English reader which begins "I have often recalled the morning when the first of the anonymous letters came" - maybe this is adapted from the start of the cut version?

Sorry, I meant to put a link to the discussion on agathachristie.com - http://community.agathachristie.com/d...

No real spoilers in the discussion, but probably best to read this after finishing the book as it will make more sense. If you do look at the thread before finishing, I'd skip the long comment by Griselda near the top - it doesn't have any serious spoilers but does mention something that happens near the end.

Judy wrote: "I've just been looking at a discussion of this on agathachristie.com, where it's said the original US edition was edited to save paper during WWII. The 2011 Harper US edition is a full text but ear..."

So my audio version in the US was the unabridged UK version. I wonder if the abridged version had to also remove all references to Jerry's sticks if there was no mention of his accident . I should read the link. Thanks you Judy

P.S. In investigating which version I listened to I discovered a dramatization by the BBC and have requested it from the library.

Is that a radio play, Sandy? Sounds like a great find.

Does anyone have the shorter version of the book? In the Collins version I looked at, Jerry's injury is still mentioned but just more briefly.

Judy wrote: "Is that a radio play, Sandy? Sounds like a great find.

Does anyone have the shorter version of the book? In the Collins version I looked at, Jerry's injury is still mentioned but just more briefly."

I have the shorter version of the book. This is the edition I have . The uncut, full-text edition is this one which I have yet to get.

I don't have these editions but does anyone know if these are the uncut UK versions?

Lady Clementina wrote: "Me neither- I think the version I read also excluded this."

My version excluded the war too

LovesMysteries wrote: "Judy wrote: "Is that a radio play, Sandy? Sounds like a great find.

Does anyone have the shorter version of the book? In the Collins version I looked at, Jerry's injury is still mentioned but jus..."

Berkley edition 0425105695 published June 1984 has on title page verso "This Berkley book contains the complete text of the original hardcover edition." It begins with "I have often recalled the morning when the first anonymous letters came."

The G.K. Hall edition published in 1989 begins with the same sentence. It doesn't have a note regarding its origins.

The Dell edition published in 1968 also begins with the same sentence.

Judy wrote: "Is that a radio play, Sandy? Sounds like a great find.

Does anyone have the shorter version of the book? In the Collins version I looked at, Jerry's injury is still mentioned but just more briefly."

Yes, its a radio play.

Ella's Gran wrote: "LovesMysteries wrote: "Judy wrote: "Is that a radio play, Sandy? Sounds like a great find.

Does anyone have the shorter version of the book? In the Collins version I looked at, Jerry's injury is ..."
That's the one I have.

The trouble with publishing abridged versions of books is that they tend not to get amended later.

Thanks for all the info about the different editions, LovesMysteries and Ella's Gran. It's good that the longer version is now available in the US too.

Having said that, I thought the opening of the shorter version which I read online was really good too - I wonder if Christie reworked the story herself for the abridged version? Hoping to read a biography of her before too long, so I'll be interested to see if there is any mention of this.

Gosh I'm just astonished there are different versions. My hardback (British) certainly speaks all about the war and Jerry's injury.

I wonder if any other books are different, does anyone know?

Adrian wrote: "I wonder if any other books are different, does anyone know?"

There's a difference between the American and the British version of Three Act Tragedy (or Murder In Three Acts). The American edition changes the motive of the murderer.

LovesMysteries wrote: "Adrian wrote: "I wonder if any other books are different, does anyone know?"

There's a difference between the American and the British version of Three Act Tragedy (or Murder In Three Acts). The A..."

It does? Now I wonder which one I have...

Lady Clementina wrote: "LovesMysteries wrote: "Adrian wrote: "I wonder if any other books are different, does anyone know?"

There's a difference between the American and the British version of Three Act Tragedy (or Murde..."

I looked t up on wiki and the one I've read is the British one.