Rothfussians discussion

I like your theory, Rachel. However, I have a couple of questions. I did the same excercise you did, in lining up the 7 things and pairing them. I observed two things, one is that there are 8 things, unless you count the secret and the dream as the same thing, or the box and the rocks as one item. The first question is, which did you do?

The girls' version had two that did not obviously line up either, 'one a time that must be right', and 'one a son who brings the blood'. If I count the son who brings the blood as lining up with the rocks, that leaves either the box, or the remainder of the secret/dream (depending on which you counted as one item, as per the above question). So, the second question is, which did you line up 'the time that must be right' with?

Don't have a huge amount to add to this discussion other than the reference to "raveling", the Edema Ruh being the ravel. Any ideas on that one?

I could be completely wrong on this, Jim, but I think the intention of the word 'raveling' here, is in the original meaning of the word:
verb (used without object), raveled, raveling or (especially British) ravelled, ravelling.
5.
to become disjoined thread by thread or fiber by fiber; fray.
6.
to become tangled.
7.
to become confused or perplexed.
8.
(of a road surface) to lose aggregate.
noun
9.
a tangle or complication.

Meaning, that Lady Lackless likes her riddles complicated, perplexing, confusing, tangled up. Again, I could be wrong and this might be a reference to the Ruh, though I don't know exactly how you meant. I wonder if you were referring to the word 'rabble', which means, in the derogatory sense, ordinary people, especially when regarded as socially inferior or uncouth?

Here's what I meant, and pretty much taken from Jo Walton's exegesis of KC on Tor.com. Ravel is an insulting allusion to the Edema Ruh. This is well established.

First when Elodin says to Kvothe, " the Edema Ruh make for poor students….They are fine for rote learning, but the study of naming requires a level of dedication that ravel such as yourself rarely possess."

During admissions when Hemme says, "Did you set fire to my rooms, you littel ravel bastard?" Kvothe is insulted and ends up answering the Chancellor's question about the etymology of the word ravel, saying "It comes from the purges instigated by Emperor Alcyon who issued a proclamation saying any of the traveling rabble on the roads were subject to fine, imprisonment, or transportation without trial. The term became shortened to ravel through metaplasmic enclitization. (Just as an aside, the meaning of enclitic is -- a word pronounced with so little emphasis that it is shortened and forms part of the preceding word.)

Again, during his interview with The Maer and Meluan, Meluan says, "I say you give him a score of guards and let him do the same [kill them all] to every ravel band of Ruh he finds within your lands."

So it's established that ravel equals Edema Ruh. I guess the question that remains is what does raveling mean. Being Edema Ruh?

A somewhat far-fetched speculation from someone on the Tor site is that:

“…On a road, that’s not for traveling
Lackless likes her riddle raveling.”

I [the person commenting] assumed that Kvothe misheard it and it was really “Lackless likes her little raveling” (where “Lackless” refers to his mother, Laurian, and the “little raveling” is his father, Arliden).

So that's about it. Seems like a pretty concrete reference to Lackless liking her riddle being [connected with] Edema Ruh. Guess we'll see, huh? (I hope anyway.)

Thank you, Jim. That is precise and quite concrete. I have no idea how I forgot that conversation between Hemme and Kvothe. Was that from Jo Walton, during a read or reread on Tor?

Hi Angela:

I just had made a connection in my mind between ravel and Edema Ruh from reading the book, and noticed you hadn't addressed it, but honestly I couldn't remember any of the specific instances in the book myself. I started Googling and ended up at the Tor site (where I've been before) and started word searching for "ravel". There could be more, but I stopped there.

I went to Tor and discovered the conversations there. I have read through most of them. It seems many people have agreed that "a time that must be right" is during a new moon when travel to the Fae world is easiest. None of the things seem to fit, unless the black dress is indeed the night sky with no light from the moon. In the post, Rachel says that all of the items, except the box with rocks and the son with blood, have an obvious match in the other, but I didn't get an answer on how she matched up "the time that must be right". I also noticed that in the boy's riddle, there seems to be two doors. One in the first line "seven things stand before the Lackless door", and the second one is listed as one of the seven items, "one a door that holds the flood". Anyway, I suppose that doesn't matter here, since the focus is on the rocks in the box.

Has anyone tried to compare the Lackless items to the signs of the Chandrian that Shehyn tells Kvothe about? Just popped into my head when I was reading this because there are 7 items. Seven Chandrian. Seven signs. Thoughts?

That's an interesting theory I had never though about. However I gotta say it seems like in this world number 7 is like special and very present in culture for some reason, so it might just be a coincidence.