Our Shared Shelf discussion

I don't know if this topic already exists, I didn't find it, so I am sorry, but I need some advice or at least some kind words.

I am sorry in advance for the long text...

Hello, my name is Alexandra and I am 22 years old.
And today I woke up to someone insulting me on WhatsApp. I think it's because I sometimes am "bossy" at my school. I know what I want, I know why I pay my school so much and I want to make the best of it, which means me ordering around once for a workshop because the other people (mainly boys) preferred messing around with each other in the hallway than working and score a good grade (we ended up being the best group and have the best grade of the three groups...). I also talk during classes, asking questions, challenging the professors and I can see (actually i can feel) that it annoys some people from my class (boys and girls).

And... I was wondering how you deal with people insulting you for knowing what you want in life and working towards that ? How do you deal with that?
To be honest, I cried when I heard it (it was a vocal message sent on the class group... which means everyone in the class got to hear the lovely words this guy told). I know I am 22 and maybe I should be used to it but... I am doing a bachelor degree. Aren't people supposed to be mature when they go to higher education?
And why, because I want good grades and challenge what the teacher say, should I put myself in the line of jealousy and (almost?) hate (at least dislike) and insults from others?

I must admit, I am very confused by what happened. I know I shouldn't let this reach me, but I am a sensitive person and someone who thinks a lot... So yeah, I would love your feedback on this story, to help me see other perspectives.

Also, it's not the first time this guy insult a girl from class... of course, he says it's a joke ("i am kidding") but as I am getting more and more interested in feminism, I wonder if it's just a stupid rich boy thinking he's above everything or is it kinda linked to feminism and how he looks down on women?
We spend one week in Paris with the two bachelor classes for a workshop and some people went to a club. Guess what the guys did... they spat on the back of a woman. I don't remember the details and i don't think i even asked (i didn't go to the club), but she was a woman with a short dress and was flirting and charming. I was so disgusted by that... I guess they looked down on her for being a woman at ease with her sexuality?

So yeah, I am mainly hurt, and also very confused.

I cannot wait to see your answers and I hope this message doesn't offend the guidelines of Our Shared Shelf.

Thank you for reading until the end!

Hi Alexandra and welcome :)
I'm sorry you have had to go through this.

It sounds to me like you class (in particular these boys) are incredibly immature. So what if you ask questions? So what if you want to be the best that you can be? You should be praised for challenging the professors and wanting to learn to your full potential (the fact that your group has the best grades sounds like it was in large thanks to you).

Some men are intimidated by smart girls; I see examples of it everyday. These guys sound like drifters, it doesn't sound like they give a stuff about learning anything and are making these comments to get a reaction in hope of becoming more popular.

Bullies are not worth your time or your tears, it may be hard but stand up to them, just do your thing - carry on as you are, don't let them change you.

Often other people are scared of men (or boys) like this and will laugh with them to keep them on side, even when they don't agree with what they are doing. Chances are many people in the group are actually on your side - but probably won't be vocal about it for fear of standing up to these boys.

You sounds like a smart woman who knows what she wants out of life, don't let losers like this trip you up on your path to success, keep focused and keep going - you've got this. :)

Sorry to hear that.
I fear I have no good answers to offer to that, only the observation that some guys do hate women and that they do feel threatened by them, especially if the woman is out-spoken, intelligent and goal oriented.
Rule of thumb: A guy who feels the need to add a "I'm joking" is doing anything but - and he's very well aware of that.

A huge part of this problem (and for once I don't intend to insult anyone with that observation) is certainly due to a conservativ to the point of fanatic religiousness in some states.

I am sorry to hear about your experiences. And hey, you are not bossy. You are just smart and eager to learn, and that’s awesome!

For your question on how I deal with other people insulting me, it depends very much on the situation. I won’t say that I have been in your exact situation, but I have gotten a fair share of nasty comments regarding gender/sexuality.

When I experience such comments or acts, I am doing my best to call it out in a not too hostile way (it’s difficult to have a conversation with someone, if they are in a defence position or already aggressive). However, I always make sure that they know that I don’t find the comment funny. I tend to just say: “I don’t get it. Could you please explain why that is so funny?”. And then I just blankly stare back at them with the comment: “No. I still don’t see why this is funny”. Sometimes, we can get a conversation out it. Other times I am called a buzz kill. But I just don’t want to let them get away with such comments.

I know it depends a lot on the situation. Sometimes, I can’t say anything because I fear to get into a nasty situation. If that is so, I mostly see to that I at least support the other person and tell them that it’s not their fault. Also if it is strangers. An example would be last week when I was in the underground. There was a young woman being harassed by someone else. It was clear she was uncomfortable, but didn’t know exactly how to get out of the situation. I just went up to her saying “hi” loudly and got in between her and the one harassing her. Luckily that shut the person up.

I don’t know whether the above helps you. I understand that you get confused and sad when stuff like this happens to you or others. That’s totally okay. Just know that I (and many others) find you smart and awesome for being eager to learn.

Alexandra wrote: "I don't know if this topic already exists, I didn't find it, so I am sorry, but I need some advice or at least some kind words.

I am sorry in advance for the long text...

Hello, my name is Alexa..."

Hi Alexandra,
Depending on where you go to follow your degree, you'll sometimes fall on people with "ancient" education. And going to college doesn't mean becoming or being open-minded. Sometimes it even closes more doors than opening them.

People, and boys who are likely to do this have to be avoided. They are very toxic and prevent you from the positivity and the will to change. As long as they are not rulers or occupy high responsibility places, they are not that dangerous. You have to keep believing in yourself and your ideas, meeting people who tend to be like you, and get away from those people who slow you down. It's a question of giving attention to what they do.

Hope this helps!

Thank you everyone for your kind words. I replied something like "It's in kindergarten that boys bother girls because they don't have the courage to talk directly to them." in a way to mock him for being such a stupid ass.
And now, he wrote me in private to apologize. What an utter [insert lovely bird name].

Anyway, I would love to hear the point of view of others as well. The only positive thing in this situation is that it made me open a discussion here and I am looking forward to reading your reactions.

I am still thinking about what I can do on Monday to make him understand that he crossed a line (without violence or such of course, more like talking). Any tips?

Hi Keith!

It's only words sometime (it's happened twice that I heard of, this morning being number two). He is someone who thinks it's cool and trendy and he thinks it makes him seem important (that's my perspective).
He's not physical at all. I will talk to him without public around but I will do it in school.
As I am doing a bachelor in a private school, we are supposed to be adults and act like one. But it seems most of my class has still a way to go which is okay as long as they don't degrade anyone and don't compromise anyone in their process of not caring about the school.
Anyway, he apologised via text multiple times on both the group and in private (the least he could do...).
I just want to tell him that he must never do that again, not to me or anyone. Words are daggers in people's hearts and minds. People go into depression or die because of those kind of words.
Bullying is a subject I take to heart and when I can, I want to make sure people stop being bullies.

He is losing. His way of life is being threatened and therefore is lashing out in ways and blaming you and the other ladies. How and why, I couldn't say without learning more. (we all face internal battles that many do not know about - problems at home, problems with friends, problems with X Y Z)

But you keep doing what you can to be true to you. Keep excelling in school. Build strong relationships with mentors and leaders who can help you excel in your chosen profession. Get involved with on the job training (shadowing / internships). Continue to challenge yourself to be a better version of where you are now.

Alexandra wrote: "Hi Keith!

It's only words sometime (it's happened twice that I heard of, this morning being number two). He is someone who thinks it's cool and trendy and he thinks it makes him seem important (th..."

I think you're best equipped for Monday! It's not easy to be more mature than your mates (I'm 20, so I can definitely relate, although I had the maturity problem more in middle school). I'm sure he will change his behaviour sooner or later, you make sure of that.
And you're probably not alone, speaking out is not easy...

Hi, I'm sorry to hear about your experiences.

When you want something, you should go for it. That other people insult you for your strength, says more about them then about you.

I think you shouldn't care about what they say. After all, eventually you don't need them to succeed.

I'm going to end my message with some wise words from Gandhi:

"First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win."

Hi Alexandra,

I had to go through all of this stuff, too, when I was back at school. They were boys making fun of me overnight. Some of them I knew from kindergarten. I was really hurt.
All that bullying went on for years and it finally stopped with me getting stronger and more aware of myself. Somehow they must have sensed that it didn't bother me anymore if they made strange noises or called me names. I used to flinch when they did that and look ashamed.

You are strong and intelligent and beautiful. Don't let them take anything of that away from you! Chances are they are afraid of you because they can not compete with you.

How to react - well, that's an individual thing I guess. For me it was ignoring them and not providing a platform by letting them see how hurt I was.
But I agree with you that bullying shouldn't be accepted or hushed. Maybe you could make this a subject in class in general? Seems like some of your classmates really need to catch up some stuff. It's up to you. Good luck!

Sometimes there is nothing that can be done or said. It all depends on the situation and if you aren't in so much shock over it that you have the calmness of mind to give a reaction to it in a way that won't lower you to their level.

For me, I was "attacked" at home. I got a phone call and thought it was a friend of mine. Some derogatory words were said to me and I found they had me on speaker and I heard a bunch of people laughing in the background. In as much shock as I was I just slowly hung up the phone and didn't say anything.

Know and remember that your better than that. Don't let it bring you to tears, let it put a "Fire" in you. To work harder, be better and go further in your life.

Stay strong! :))

Alexandra,

Unfortunately this is not an uncommon situation to be in. Depending on the field you are in, you may encounter it more often than others. I am a computer programmer and have seen some similar behavior even in the work force, many years beyond college.

Your reaction was spot on. You called him out and didn't let his comment stand. Since this was a group discussion, everyone is now aware this isn't something you tolerate. You may have to do it a few more times, but keep standing your ground.

You already know this, but never apologize for who you choose to be and the dedication you choose to show. I can tell you've got a strong future ahead of you.

Hi Alexandra, this sort of thing happens I for example have been out and about as a feminist for about 18 months now I have had a few encounters with men activist groups and the like. I have picked up a follower today called "the dude" a meninist apparently.

The point is if you believe in what you are saying and want an informed opinion then keep going. I refer you to Albert Einstein; " the important thing is never to stop asking questions"

He also said when asked the difference between genius and stupidly, Genius has its limits.

what to bare in mind is we all display aspects of both so never be afraid to ask your questions nor listen to others do the same.

Thank you everyone for your kind words !
I hope other people will have the courage to speak up if something like that happen to them (and i wish with all my heart it won't).

Thank you thank you thank you, what a great support this group is... I feel so filled with gratitude and love towards you, I'm gonna burst (in tears or literally) !!

Hugs to all of you.