Our Shared Shelf discussion

If i had to be honest i dont think the judge was victim blaming, i think she was just being a realist about the dangers of being so intoxicated that you would be an easier target for assault or rape. From what i read in the article the judge handed down a punishment to the rapist so its not like she let him off the hook.

I think at times people confuse "victim blaming" with just plain common sense. If you jump into an ocean there is a slight chance you can be attacked by a shark. If you jump in the ocean holding dead and bloody fish the likelihood of an attack goes way up. Bottom line, while men should be accountable (or women who assault men) its not like its just going to go away. The danger is always out there but if a person is totally sloshed and alone the likelihood of being attacked does go up.

If you were a rapist would you want to try attack a woman who was aware of her surroundings and able to defend herself or would you go after someone who cant focus and barely walk? The reality is we cant control the type of predators that are out there in the world. So to some degree we (and in this case women) need to be a bit more aware and prepared for when they go out on the town.

Its why its always a good idea to be with friends from start to finish. If you are going to get plowed be sure that you are not put in situations where you are alone and unable to handle yourself. To me there is a difference between saying "she deserved it because of what she was wearing or drinking" vs saying be smart about your surroundings and have a plan to get home safely.

Even with those types of precautions nothing is ever guaranteed but your chances of being assaulted go way up when you leave yourself in a more vulnerable state. I saw this nothing more than a judge simply trying to educate women to be more thoughtful and aware of how they go about preparing for their nights out on the town.

"Judge Kushner's plea to women to protect themselves was strongly - but carefully - worded: she was emphatically not blaming them for an attack but warning them that when drunk they're more vulnerable."

How about if the woman has been drinking don't ask for sex; you would not let her drive you home she is in no state to agree consent to sex.

Never seen a judge advise a man who was mugged to not drink and travel home.

Ross wrote: "Never seen a judge advise a man who was mugged to not drink and travel home."

And yet the same principle applies, drinking clouds your judgment and lowers your defenses. The danger of getting into a fight when drunk is a lot higher then when sober and it will more likely turn out bad for you.

I'd say it's sound advice in general to encourage people not to get drunk without having a backup plan how to get home again safe.

Yea, i agree Gerd.

This has to be addressed on both the sides,woman have to take responsibility about their safety and Men have to develop high moral values and be a human!

Telling women what to do and what to wear is not healthy but this judge ,she warns about reality .It is a common sense.The world is not filled with all good.At least until it is so,women should avoid putting themselves in a vulnerable situation.

Still if we work on changing the behaviour of the perpetrator rather than potential victims. Why focus on the victim. Rise the jail time for assailants. Make them consider the cost we want a world where women can walk without fear the first step to not except the current situation as normal.

If a woman walks up a dark street drunk with a sign round her neck saying attack me it is not going to make a difference to anyone not inclined to attack her is it.

I agree that the behavior needs to change with the perpetrator as Ross mentioned. Violence against women needs to stop, and this is what more people need to be educated on. More changes need to happen.

Let's say a drunk woman, who does happen to have a ride home from a friend, is attacked by said friend - then what would a judge advise her? Never go out with friends and drink? Nobody asks to be attacked.

It's good and smart to warn women - but the fact that they need warning means we still have so much to improve in our society (of course that's totally not a newsflash!)

I'm glad I joined this group and get to see all of these discussions going on!

Honestly, I feel as though it was a bit of both. It seemed to be victim blaming in the sense that it almost appeared to suggest that women who do not drink aren't raped. As if the drinking was actually the problem. Though, that's just my perception of it. Drunk or sober, women & men shouldn't have to have that worry.
However, on one side it was the harsh reality. If you drink, you're putting yourself at more risk. It shouldn't be that way, but it's unfortunately something we do face.
She didn't directly say that drunk women are to blame, so it's hard to say exactly which way the comments are leaning. Words are easily misperceived, and this could very well be a case where the journalists own feelings could have swayed the direction of the articles.