Fantasy Buddy Reads discussion

June 15th.

One of my all-time favorite books! I just read it less than a year ago though, so won't be re-reading it so soon. Will probably follow along, so that I can relive the reading through everyone else. Enjoy!

Welcome to the group! It's one of my favorites too. :)

Andrew wrote: "One of my all-time favorite books! I just read it less than a year ago though, so won't be re-reading it so soon. Will probably follow along, so that I can relive the reading through everyone else...."

Glad you enjoyed it. I've been very surprised to have enjoyed this series more than Dagger & Coin. It is very underrated.

I have to admit I myself didn't enjoy the first 2 books of the series a lot (one of the reasons i lagged a bit in starting the third) but then the third was brilliant so now I'm eagerly waiting for the fourth. I'll probably do a reread of the third book just before our scheduled BR. Some parts of it were exceptional and I'd like to go through them again.

Laura wrote: "I'll probably do a reread of the third book just before our scheduled BR.."

You do realize that's in 10 days? :)

Laura's a reading ninja!!

yes. 10 days. no biggie. I don't have many reads planned for the first half of this month. :) I always reread books I love for the second time just a few weeks after I'm done.

You guys read a lot more than me Nikki! But I like the title of reading ninja. :) ( I'm blushing over here! ) It sounds great. Thank you! - and I wish I really was one!

Haha I really think you are ;P
I cheat with audio - I listen to books while at work all day.

Under a week. I think it's just you and I Laura.

oh. That's too bad. I for one am looking forward to it. Do you want to start early Scott as it's just the 2 of us? Or go ahead as planned?

Laura wrote: "oh. That's too bad. I for one am looking forward to it. Do you want to start early Scott as it's just the 2 of us? Or go ahead as planned?"

If you want to start early we can do that. Do tomorrow?

that's fine too. I don't have any other reads planned. I'm finishing with Dragon Prince today and I'll brush a bit through the third book of this series this evening. Do you have a certain reading pace planned? I think it would be great if we sort of timed our reading so we can chat better about the book. I had a lot of fun that way with Angela on Red Seas under Red Skies.

I was debating on trying to sneak in another book before our start so this helps me out as well. I updated the bookshelf. I should finish Kings of the Wyld today. Then the only open read I'll have is Calamity other than an audiobook which I don't count when figuring my reading schedule.

I can break the book into whatever portion per day you're comfortable with. 10% and ten days, 25% and 4 days it doesn't matter. I'll just offset the rest of my time with Calamity. Then we can post thoughts on what's happening.

that's great Scott. I'd like the 25% option. It's neither too much nor too less and we'll also have stuff to talk about that way. Thank you. We'll start tomorrow then?

Laura wrote: "that's great Scott. I'd like the 25% option. It's neither too much nor too less and we'll also have stuff to talk about that way. Thank you. We'll start tomorrow then?"

Yes. That works great for me.

great.

Prologue

(view spoiler)[
I am going to miss this world when we are done. I just loved hopping back into the subtle eastern culture and his writing style.

I have to admit I was completely confused at first with the dead woman with baby mouths. Then I focused on two woman and a man fleeing and realized it had to be Matii and it all came together for me.

Brilliant prologue that really set the stage for the story along with the bitterness and pain of the last 15 years.
(hide spoiler)]

it was a very long and busy day today with lots of work to finish and no time to touch a book. Kids are now in bed and all the work done so I'm settling down with a nice big box of heavenly chocolate chip cookies and this great book. I'm planning to read up to chapter 9 at least tonight. But I can't get to the computer till tomorrow morning Scott, so I can't see the spoilers till then.

No worries. Ive been busy as well and doubt I'll get 8 or 9 chapters in today.

Through chapter 4. Not sure I'll get much further today. This may turn into 15% per day for me not 25%.

(view spoiler)[
Matii saying I don't like his wife in reference to Cehmai and it being Idaan was very well done. I'm sort of disappointed they aren't joining the story or at least we are led to believe so. Idaan is such a wild card and I was instantly thinking what would her influence be on the niece she's never met?

Really poignant chapters with the meshing, or not so much, of the the Galt and Khaiem empires. The sorrow of the women.

Some of life's unhappy events like Kiyan passing was a surprise and sad. I had to re-read that section to make sure I completely understood that they weren't separated or she was just in another city.

Matii is so bitter and caustic. Being life's villain has been rough on him as it would on anybody.
(hide spoiler)]

What a great ending to chapter 5. I felt, after the fact, that I should have seen that coming with how they played up the character depiction.

Great discussion going on here! I feel like if I'd read this before I'd had any real life experience under my belt I wouldn't have understood how important the themes are in the book

Scott wrote: "Prologue


(view spoiler)[I totally agree. It was brilliant. But having had the perks of brushing through the 3rd book just the day before, I instantly connected the woman with the mouths with Maati. Eiah and Maati were talking about women being or not being poets a lot while she was growing up.
I have one question though about the seemingly pregnant woman. She had the signs of a pregnancy with bleeding stopped and bloated tummy but Eiah said she caused it herself by wanting too much to be pregnant and then believing she will. I somehow don't quite agree with that. I would be ok with it being some other sort of medical condition but making your own tummy big and stopping the bleeding just because you wish too much to be pregnant and your body agrees!! What do you think of that?
And why in the world would the husband discard the girl if she weren't pregnant for real? Eiah insinuated he would do just that once he found out. Did the husband marry the girl just because she could bear a child? (hide spoiler)]

Scott wrote: "Through chapter 4. Not sure I'll get much further today. This may turn into 15% per day for me not 25%.


Again, I picked up some other stuff that may not have been important to you but makes me get angry.
(view spoiler)[It was remarked at one time that women from the neighbouring states came to the Khaiem to marry the men just because they could get pregnant but they were driven off. At the same time, men who searched for a wife outside the Khaiem were punished by their own. That made me angry. Why would normal people do that? It is clear that they cannot have any children as it is. What is so wrong in marrying someone from the neighbouring state? They are not of Galt for crying out loud! Does everyone just simply want to die because of a stubborn pride or are they hoping for a miracle to restore them in a sort of collective madness and punishing those who are looking for a simpler way out? And that whole talk about women being worthless because they cannot bear children and that Otah is simply discarding them by looking for other childbearing women for the Khaiem men pisses me off too. I mean common! What do you really want to do! To me, trying to look for a solution and getting some children doesn't mean thinking less of the existing sterile women. It is just trying to find a solution and accepting a truth. The only other alternatives there would be raising another Andath or getting surrogate mothers. Are these people too proud to even survive? It's been 15 years without children right? This is bothering me a lot. Do you find it ok?
That being said, I am almost convinced Idaan and Cehmai will be back in the story. She is too power hungry to remain on the outlines and she'll make Cehmai do her bidding. I also liked their meeting. And I liked it that Cehmai has at least learnt his lesson. He remembers holding the power of Gods and destroying the world and he doesn't want a part of it anymore.
Kiyan's passing touched me the same way too. Otah was writing her a letter so I thought she was in another city. That was very sad.
Maati I sort of understand. He is trying to make up for his mistake. But what if it will turn out wrong again. There is that girl in between his students who has great hatred towards the Galts. What if she were to bind and Andath? Wouldn't there be consequences again? I think there was a reason for the Dhai-Kwo selecting aspirants so thoroughly and Maati is just choosing the girls because they are determined to learn. Don't people ever learn from their mistakes? (hide spoiler)]

Scott wrote: "What a great ending to chapter 5. I felt, after the fact, that I should have seen that coming with how they played up the character depiction."

I didn't see it coming at all. I was thinking more on the lines of;
(view spoiler)[they will get married and she will make his life a hell. (hide spoiler)] And the father's reaction was so great. (view spoiler)[I thought that his wife had made him agree to the alliance but after his reaction i now believe he may have wished for it too. Or do you think he is only afraid of the political disaster? (hide spoiler)]

I'll slow down my pace also and go for just 6 chapters a day if that is ok with you. I am really curious how they will make everything alright again. If at all.

Laura wrote: "Scott wrote: "Prologue

I totally agree. It was brilliant. But having had the perks of brushing through the 3rd book just the day before, I instantly connected the woman with the mouths with Maat..."

(view spoiler)[
There are medical cases of women who exhibit pregnancy due to psychological conditions. I do believe this was to show how badly the women craved to be pregnant. The husband killing her could be viewed as rage as being tricked or exactly what you said his tricking her. I think these are supposed to elicit rage. I was upset reading them but it also give the world and story credibility.
(hide spoiler)]

Laura wrote: "Scott wrote: "Through chapter 4. Not sure I'll get much further today. This may turn into 15% per day for me not 25%.


Again, I picked up some other stuff that may not have been important to you ..."

(view spoiler)[
Actually those points were important to me but I read them from a different point of view. When the Nazi's occupied countries such as France or Norway women who dated them even after the war were killed or ostracized. I think you're viewing it as common sense to want to continue the race which makes sense. However these two sides are bitter enemies who are now asked to bond. Picture this being Germany and Russia in an alternate history where WWII ended in a stalemate and now after all the rape and killing men are betraying the women by fostering new lives and children with the enemy. I think the behavior, not that it's right, is human nature.

I agree with your comments on Idaan, Cehmia and Maati. I was thinking on it last week and my money is on Idaan wanting to bond an Andat and tricking everybody. Imagine that horror. I don't think Maati cares who he hurts at this point. He's caught up in his own redemption only desiring to finally be the hero. We've seen his selfishness throughout the series and it's deepened. He's not an evil man by any means. Just fallible and real.
(hide spoiler)]

Margret wrote: "Great discussion going on here! I feel like if I'd read this before I'd had any real life experience under my belt I wouldn't have understood how important the themes are in the book"

Thanks. I cannot wait to start Expanse after getting back into this world. Totally agree you need real life context. This book would have been lost me at a young age not getting the subtlety and texture of life.

Scott wrote: "Laura wrote: "Scott wrote: "Prologue

(view spoiler)[I honestly didn't know that these kind of medical cases could exist. It is also clear to me that women were badly desiring children. And rage would be a clear winner in the emotional cocktail following something like that. Hell, it made even me angry just at thinking about it and I was just reading a story. (hide spoiler)]

Scott wrote: "Laura wrote: "Scott wrote: "Through chapter 4. Not sure I'll get much further today. This may turn into 15% per day for me not 25%.


Again, I picked up some other stuff that may not have been imp..."
(view spoiler)[I think you hit it dead on with Maati. Idaan bonding an Andat would equal world end on a bang if you ask me.
I was not speaking about the Khaiem - Galt people. It is said at one time that women from neighbouring countries wanted to wed men of the Khaiem and vice-versa. But now that you mentioned it I am wondering if those neighbouring countries belonged to Galt. That would make sense according to everything you have just said (and I also agree with). I was under the impression that the neighbouring countries were something other than Galt and this way the Khaiem didn't have any excuse to ostracise people who chose the easier way out. Except human cruelty of course. The "why should you get babies when I cannot" kind of cruelty. (hide spoiler)]

Laura wrote: "Again, I picked up some other stuff that may not..."

(view spoiler)[
That's a good point that it was from countries not of the Galt empire. Still even in an all Jewish or Catholic neighborhood with no war you would see territorial behavior ditto with all Irish or Italian and of course black and white. A friend of mine who is of Irish descent but born and raised in the states got the chance to go work in Dublin for her company for a few years in her mid 20's. Even then she got a lot stay away from our men American bitch types of looks and comments.
(hide spoiler)]

Chapter 6

(view spoiler)[
You know this binding this going to go well but I'm trying to figure out how the Andat can screw them regarding site.
(hide spoiler)]

Chapter 7

(view spoiler)[
I knew that was going to be Idaan and what was coming as soon as Sinja was so serious. I wonder if he'll sluth out his daughter's involvement.
(hide spoiler)]

Through chapter 12

(view spoiler)[
DA is so good keeping us distract. I felt I should have know the Adant would be a baby. It seems like the end of every chapter he drops a bomb on us even when you know it's coming like Idaan letting Otah know his girl is the most likely suspect.
(hide spoiler)]

Scott wrote: "Margret wrote: "Great discussion going on here! I feel like if I'd read this before I'd had any real life experience under my belt I wouldn't have understood how important the themes are in the boo..."

IMO the accurate portrayal of "the texture of life" is done better in this series than any other. I love that DA lets a significant amount of time lapse between books, as that allows us to view characters at various stages of life. This series is so good.

Scott wrote: "Chapter 6


(view spoiler)[I wonder more how the girl is going to screw them after she binds the Andat. She seems to have a lot of rage pent up as well as a hidden not so nice attitude. I'd bet you 10 to 1 she's a real bitch. (hide spoiler)]


Chapter 7


(view spoiler)[I didn't see that coming. And I was leaning towards Idaan convincing Cehmai to join Maati - for her own benefit of course. (hide spoiler)]

Scott wrote: "Through chapter 12


(view spoiler)[duh! talk about dropped bombs! DA seems better than Sanderson in placing these twists. She's even nursing the thing the way you do with a real baby! But shouldn't this Andat be able to change its form into whatever it pleases? Do you think it can do that or is it supposed to remain a baby? I am starting to loose count on things I didn't see coming here. And don't you feel things are going fast on the way of blowing up? The new Andat mommy is turning into a petty prissy princess. She seems jealous of Eiah as far as I can tell and i think she may not particularly want her to succeed in binding Wounded. And what is with the moons around the star? Is the girl able to see straight into space now? (hide spoiler)]

Scott wrote: "Laura wrote: "Again, I picked up some other stuff that may not..."


(view spoiler)[That literally sucks. And I guess it also tells a lot about human nature! (hide spoiler)]

Laura wrote: "Scott wrote: "Through chapter 12


[spoilers removed]"

(view spoiler)[
The obvious choices are Otah finds them and is forced to kill his friend and daughter or they succeed and everybody can have babies again but then are the two nations now natural enemies again? But I think DA has something else in store for us that I cannot foresee.

I agree and think the Andat will change like all "children". The fact that it was taking in the fight with interest will play a big role.
(hide spoiler)]

Andrew wrote: "IMO the accurate portrayal of "the texture of life" is done better in this series than any other. I love that DA lets a significant amount of time lapse between books, as that allows us to view characters at various stages of life. This series is so good."

I agree. It's all minor degrees and subtlety just like real life. Love the nuances.

Through chapter 14

(view spoiler)[
The Andat already wreaking havoc with the women who are so hungry to have a child. That power of blindness unleashed against the Galt and even possibly the Khaiem is pretty scary.

The scene between Otah and Idaan when his realization of just what he's unleashing upon his daughter. Idaan came to him under the pretense of repaying a kindness but bare minimum it's to set herself up for an easy old age. I think she's enjoying this and would have no problem taking out Maati or her niece already being a kinslayer.
(hide spoiler)]

Chapter 15........what a way to end the chapter!

(view spoiler)[
Being a voyeur to a tender scene like that. Her smother, no typo, is quite the master manipulator.

Thinking of the consequences of all the Galt's at sea going blind. It's not like it was unforeseen but what a way to casually drop it at the end of the chapter. I always think of the Cleopatra line


Is that how one says it? As simply as that. "Mark Antony is dead. Lord Antony is dead." "The soup is hot; the soup is cold." "Antony is living; Antony is dead." Shake with terror when such words pass your lips, for fear they be untrue and Antony'd cut out your tongue for the lie! And if true, for your lifetime boast that you were honored to speak his name even in death. The dying of such a man, must be shouted, screamed! It must echo back from the corners of the universe. "Antony is dead! Mark Antony of Rome lives no more!

The Galt's can see. The Galt's are blind.
(hide spoiler)]

Scott wrote: "Through chapter 14

Chapters 14-15
(view spoiler)[I agree with you on both counts. Though in the case of the Andat wreaking havoc I think even the girl is a little at fault. How many people would have died by suddenly getting blind on ships or while travelling or while in the middle of a road or doing something else dangerous. The Andat did it at the girl's bidding and I have to wonder if that girl isn't a little mad. Or maybe just power hungry? And I wonder if Maati approves.
I liked it that Otah was at least a little ashamed for spying on his boy. That smothering mommy seemed to have no problem with it.
It was just a little sentence at the end of a chapter that made a huge difference. Brilliant! (hide spoiler)]

Laura wrote: "
I agree with you on both counts. Though in the case of the Andat wreaking havoc I think even the girl is a little at fault. How many people would ha..."

(view spoiler)[
She is definitely bent on revenge. It occurred to be after how the Andat at the end of book 3 lecture Maati about his failings. In his haste to recruit he never thought about his students having to pass the morals and compassion part of Poet training.
(hide spoiler)]

Chapter 16

(view spoiler)[
Really intriguing discussion about overlapping Andat powers. That was really well written and thought provoking. Will blindness over power setting things right? What period of time is a thing right?

Also wow she really has gone rogue on the revenge tour. Having seen what she's seen it's not surprising.
(hide spoiler)]

Through Chapter 17

This book makes me so angry and sad and sick at the same time! The way people behave and what they do on the basis of "I am right" without any thought of consequences. How they judge and condemn lifelong friends for a small offence while finding excuses for horrible tragedies caused by those under their own care and guidance!
(view spoiler)[I can't believe Maati finds excuses for Vanjit. I can't believe he's somewhat ok with what she did. I really thought he would be better than that. The fact that Galt was the enemy makes it ok for innocent children to be blinded now, for the sins of their parents? I thought Maati would have learned from his own Andat and from his own mistakes, I thought he wanted to repair the world not break it anew. Or is he too hungry for the fame of being the new Dhai-Kwo able to hold the power over new Andat?
And Otah set out to kill his own daughter?! At least he is still giving her the benefit of a doubt!
The Galts now believe Otah is responsible for the blindness? Will they retaliate? I think Ana and Danat will play a crucial role in the whole business and I have a strong feeling things are about to get even more worse. (hide spoiler)]

I'll read 17 on my lunch break but I agree with your non-spoiler comments but that's also what makes this series great. It's real world issues and personalities and the consequences of their actions.

Scott wrote: "Chapter 16


(view spoiler)[It's not surprising but still it's immoral! And horribly wrong!
Do you think it would be possible for Wounded to heal the blindness Clear-Of-Sight set upon Galt? Maybe if Eiah creates it in the right way?
And did you see now that the Galt came with the offer how many desperate men wanted to either go to Galt and have babies with the women there or have Galt women brought to them? Simple men all over the Khaiem. How desperate people were for a chance to get a child regardless of who had fathered or mothered it. This is what i was thinking about in the beginning and what I think Otah was trying to fix. I probably would have done the same in his place.
Now everyone is so desperate with the newly ruined chances that they may turn in their hatred towards the Andat. How would it be if that hatred finally managed to unite the old enemies? Ironic don't you think? (hide spoiler)]