Goodreads Authors/Readers discussion

Hello all. I was hoping someone here might be able to help. At the beginning of the month I published my book Tales of the Driss, Krystal Dragons. In that time only a few people have bought it and one person borrowed it. I pretty much know the two people who bought it because they told me they did. So here's the thing. I have one review and it's some person who gave it one star and only had one word to say: unreadable. I'm pretty sure it wasn't that bad and he's just a troll. as I have been assured that the book is good by others. Others who were my beta readers and such. Anyway...What should I do about this? I have contacted Amazon about taking it down, as it's not a relevant review. I have decided not to contact or comment to the writer of the review. So what would be the next course of action? Any thoughts? Thank you!!

Hi Shara, unfortunately you cannot/should not do anything about customer reviews. As far as one-star reviews go, it's actually not that bad since it's just one word. It's a bummer when one stars happen but it's important not to pursue, comment, report, etc. Most books get one-star reviews. People are of course entitled to their opinions.

It's good that you decided not to comment. And, unfortunately, there is nothing you can do about it. Try to get other reviews that are favorable, and have people mark those as "Helpful." DON'T have people mark the one-star review as "Not Helpful." Soon it will fade away into the background. Amazon rarely takes bad reviews down, and you have to remember that everyone doesn't like the same thing. As a writer you will get bad reviews and you just have to keep pushing forward.

You don't do anything about it. Give readers some credit, they are capable of reading reviews and determining if they are helpful or not. Personally I would worry less about that review and more about the lack of editing - which is going to open you up to a load more negative reviews.

It is important to remember that the vast majority of avid readers never post a rating or review. Those that do post them do so to express their personal, subjective opinion with fellow readers, not the author.

Your time and energy is much better served striving to continuously improve technical writing skills (grammar, punctuation, spelling, syntax) rather than obsessing about consumer ratings and reviews

Question: What are you all seeing that I am not? There must be something.

Shara wrote: "Question: What are you all seeing that I am not?"

With regard to what?

If you mean the lack of editing, then for starters it is riddled with basic (and fundamental) grammatical errors. For example, punctuation for dialogue modifiers, as opposed to action, is incorrect in practically every spoken line. That's before we even get to problems with sentence structure.

Hi Shara

I did a quick check of amazon. It's not a 'verified purchase' review. Once you have a few real reviews, it will completely disappear. Even if were a KU loan and return after a few pages it would have 'verified purchase'. My guess - either it's a mistake or someone rated based on the 'look inside'. There really is nothing you can do except what has already been suggested.

There is plenty of anecdotal evidence that when author challenges a negative review/reviewer it goes badly for the author. Readers see it as 'pouty' and 'unprofessional'.

*I've seen some stats that only 3% of amazon sales come from 'browsing'. As long as you are actively marketing, this won't mean much to sales.

Shara wrote: "Hello all. I was hoping someone here might be able to help. At the beginning of the month I published my book Tales of the Driss, Krystal Dragons. In that time only a few people have bought it and ..."

Just because someone has a negative opinion of your book, even if others (others who likely are somewhat biased), assure you it's good, does not make that person a troll.

Go check out negative reviews for popular books and enduring classics. I assure you, they are there.

It might be news to you, but readers have various tastes, we like different things, we're bothered by different things in books, etc. If you learn now that readers, consumers, customers are entitled to their own opinion of your books, and to share that opinion with other readers and consumers, this negative reviewer will have done you a favor.

Complaining to Amazon will do nothing, since there's nothing about that review that violates Amazon TOS.

If you're bothered by negative reviews of your book, don't read them, they're not for you anyway.

ETA: Please listen to A.W., she knows what she's talking about. I read the first page of the sample and found the writing a bit awkward. Not trying to be mean, but helpful here, really. I agree it needs some editing, and I think you might look for different beta readers.

Abby wrote: "Try to get other reviews that are favorable, and have people mark those as "Helpful.""

Bad advice. Asking people to vote "helpful" on positive reviews of your own books is review manipulation, and is a violation of Amazon TOS. So is encouraging people to leave a positive review.

The most you can do is provide a free copy of your book and hope the reader will leave an honest review.

E.G. wrote: "Even if were a KU loan and return after a few pages it would have 'verified purchase'

That's not correct. Only purchases have the "verified purchase" tag. Borrows via KU show as non-verified.

I can understand your frustration. To this day, I only got one review and it's a five star but besides giving a short description of my novel, I have no idea why I got 5 stars from a verified purchaser!

A.W. wrote: "That's not correct. Only purchases have the "verified purchase" tag. Borrows via KU show as non-verified. "

I'll add that just because a book review is not a Verified Purchase does not mean it's not a "real" review.

Thank everyone. Alexanda, I thank you for your opinion. I realize that I made a few unconventional choices in capitalization and with a few other things, and there are some sentence fragments. And it's not because it wasn't edited, or I didn't go through it. It's just that for some of those things, I went through it and I wanted to keep it. I think that people are too obsessed with perfect writing when it comes to prose. And while punctuation and grammar are important, there were a few things that I just decided not to change. There may also be a few things that I missed, but if there are, I'm still missing them somehow. Still, it's not meant to be a perfect story as it is. In some way, the writing fits with the story, lol. But thank you all for your advice. And I would never ask for favorable reviews. I might ask people who have read it to review it if they want to, but honest is important. One word is not honest, it's lazy. Just my opinion, but still...Thank you.

I suppose it doesn't matter. It'll live and people will either read it or they won't. I guess that I was just feeling a little overwhelmed again. Terrible noob here.

Shara wrote: "I realize that I made a few unconventional choices in capitalization and with a few other things, and there are some sentence fragments. "

Actually, that wasn't really what I was referring to. I'm a reader, and while I'm not a complete idiot regarding grammar and punctuation, what I notice most is flow, ease of comprehension, etc. I found the writing awkward. And I assure you, I can enjoy books that are less than "perfect".

The thing about awkward writing is it jars the reader and takes him/her out of the story, hindering the enjoyment of the story.

A consumer has no obligation to express his/her opinion of a book in a way that is not, in your opinion, lazy. Consumer reviews are not the same as professional reviews, but completely different.

I'm willing to bet if it had been a five star review simply saying "Excellent!" you wouldn't declare it dishonest and lazy.

I see no reasonable reason to presume the sentiment expressed in that review was not an honest one.

Hi, Jumping-in with my big rubber wellingtons. I had a look at the extract, and I'm afraid I found it a bit flat and wooden.

First, go back and read that first few paragraphs. Now take a moment to write down all the rich scenery you were visualising as you read the text. Now go back to the text and look for anything that might create those same images for your reader. Spot anything missing?

Next, have a look at how the majority of writers mark their dialogue, and compare it to how you do it. If there is a 'he said' or 'she said' after the quotation mark, then the full stop at the end of your dialogue becomes a comma (normally, but you do insert exclamations and question marks inside the quotation marks) and the full stop shifts to the end of the 'he said' or 'she said' unless there's a tag-on element describing the nature of the speech (growled, bellowed, etc.).

That's just a couple of examples. There's a whole pile of other little problems that need addressed in terms of the middle of the road conventions for putting text on the page, and there's lots of 'helpful' books, groups and video tutorials on how to do it.

Plus, read some good books, but with the sole purpose of 'seeing how they did it'.

Back to that first chapter - have you tried reading it aloud? Or even better get your computer to read it to you. In seconds you'll realise how unnatural and 'choppy' the text sounds.

Final thoughts - I have absolutely no doubt you have a story to tell, but unless the reader can extract the story from the text, it's going to be an uphill struggle to convince them to keep reading.

If you're 'just not getting it', PM me and I can give you extracts from handouts I used with a writing group in Edinburgh, covering a few key CRAFT elements of the writing process.

Cheers, Alistair.

It seems to me that the person probably left a review from his or her eReader. So one or a few words only is often all they have time to write.

Anyway, I am not here to argue about the review or the reviewer but to remind people that these boards are public, and while you did good not to reply directly to the reviewer, complaining or asking what to do about it on these boards is not a good idea either and it might bring up other kind of problems.

A one star review isn't fun. No author is looking forward to it, but the readers have the right to express their opinions and us authors, we just have to suck it up and try to do better. Learn from it if you can. Dismiss it if you don't think it is a valid review. Don't give up. There will be better days.

Thank you Alistair. Now that is very helpful!!

Honestly Shara, you may have a great story that will remain unread because readers can't get past your writing style.
Save up for a good proof reader, they are the ones who concentrate on grammar, punctuation and suchlike. An editor is more expensive and also advises on storylines.
I'm sure it will make a great difference and set you well for your writing career. I wish you well and hope you do not get discouraged

Okay. Thank you. Maybe I should go back to screenwriting. They're easier to write, but harder to sell. And coverage is far more affordable.

Shara wrote: "Okay. Thank you. Maybe I should go back to screenwriting. They're easier to write, but harder to sell. And coverage is far more affordable."

Don't give up, just learn from good advice and keep trying ;)

The only problem with paying someone else to proofread your work is that you miss-out on the opportunity to improve your basic writing skills. Wait until you've found your 'writing' voice, and then let the proofreader adapt to your style, instead of re-writing your book in their style!

You've got a finished draft of your novel (your first?), now comes the polishing phase. It's hard work, its a slog, but its rewards are that you become a better novelist. And having acquired those new skills, you will apply them subconsciously as you write book two, three, four...

I think of writing as being like a muscle, the more you exercise it the stronger it gets. I bet if I went to the back of your book I'd find a much more fluid storyteller in action. If that's true, you need to take that 'new' skillset and start again, and if by the time you reach the end you find you've got better again, then repeat!

Cheers, Alistair.

Well, in all truth, the front was sort of tacked on. The middle which is about brothers Ferian and Kellen is much more interesting, and the end was part of the second book that I knew wasn't going to be long enough so I added it to the first. So that's probably true.

LOL - at least you can be honest with yourself! Nothing wrong with shifting bits about to get the story to work. :) Done that a few times!

Screenwriting - opening shot during the titles to scene set; New York cityscape, nighttime - cut to a bar front on a quiet street, a woman emerges, the music suggests threat. Too easy for the film makers!

But wait, what images were you getting? Did you become that willing participant in the storytelling process?

That's how it works, get the reader to engage with the process, and then keep them engaged.

Cheers, Alistair.

Maybe I should just axe that whole front bit? Nobody seems to like it much.

Alistair wrote: "...Wait until you've found your 'writing' voice, and then let the proofreader adapt to your style, instead of re-writing your book in their style!"

A proofreader only corrects basic typos. What you are describing is something an in-depth line editor does, when they improve the flow of a sentence. It's so important that writers understand what different types of editors do. There's developmental editors, line and copy editors and proofreaders. They all undertake different jobs.

Saying you deliberately ignored basic grammatical rules just sounds... sloppy. For example your dialogue tags are wrong, that's a basic not a stylistic statement. Then you say you whacked on the front bit and then added parts of book 2 to make book 1 longer makes me wonder about your story arc.

If you just want a book out there for the personal satisfaction that's one thing, but if you are expecting people to pay money for a product then that's another thing entirely. There are plenty of places where you can upload a draft for people to read for free, like Wattpad. But if you are selling a book then readers expect a basic level of professionalism, like being edited.

Shara wrote: "Maybe I should just axe that whole front bit? Nobody seems to like it much."

I don't know if anyone here read enough to have an idea if the front bit belongs, or not. I certainly didn't read enough to have any feel for that at all.

It just needs (IMO) some work to improve how you're telling the story.

Hi all!

I've been hesitant to jump in because I haven't read any of the manuscript but I do have a few things to say. We were all new at this once. I published my debut novel in August 2015. It took me three years to write it. When I wrote my first draft I thought to myself, "I got my story down on paper. It's a good story. I'm done." Was I ever wrong. I soon learned that I needed to improve in so many areas - showing as opposed to telling, grammatical errors, and structure. I wrote at least 7 or 8 drafts after that. I had beta readers, a critique partner, and after that I hired a developmental editor to tell me what needed further work. I learned so much. Shara, don't give up. Take the book down and work on it. See where you think it can be improved and then get a good editor. After you've made all the suggested changes then get a final copy edit for typos and grammar. You may have a wonderful story to tell. Give it the respect it deserves. You'll be happy in the end.

Effie wrote: "Hi all!

I've been hesitant to jump in because I haven't read any of the manuscript but I do have a few things to say. We were all new at this once. I published my debut novel in August 2015. It to..."

Yep, all very good points - there's no one set path to success.

Five novels on, and my very first (and still unpublished) novel is still waiting to be finished. I've sorted all those pesky grammatical issues, basic plot is fine, characters are great, beautiful scenery, etc. but I made the mistake of gradually swopping my central POV character half-way through. Do I rewrite the start or the finish? (Or just keep writing new work.)

Whichever way it goes, I have no regrets about spending so much time on that novel - it was my 'apprentice piece', the work where I learned my craft and developed my voice.

You seem to have a 'pragmatic' approach to this, Shara; with the right support, I'm sure you'll get there.

I got a middling ( 3 star) review for one of my early "The Centurion Chronicles" books. It turns out the reviewer was some clown from Montana who also reviewed household appliances. Most people who buy your books don't take the time to review them but every now & then what a reviewer has to say can be helpful.
J.M. Garlock
"The Centurion Chronicles"

Um, a 3 star review isn't "middlin". It means "I liked it" which should please any reasonable author.

Why do you think consumers of household appliances aren't also consumers of books? That's a very strange belief.

Hey...You just got a bunch of free reviews for the first pages of your book. There's always something to learn. I'd advise you to stick with learning what you can from the people on here. Good luck on the book, and as a few folks keep saying: We were all new once. Keep truckin', and accept the fact that you've chosen a long road, but one day when your novel is polished you won't even worry about the reviews.

Now, that's not to say someone won't complain about your story, but they certainly won't be able to attack your craft. Keep writing!

Shara, it's sounding to me a little bit like you don't have much faith in the book. If you don't have the passion and drive to make it the best that it can possibly be, then I'm afraid it will reflect in the prose. While it's only natural to suffer from that niggling self-doubt, you have to love your work in order to convince others to give it a chance. Some mistakes are easily missed, but even if you have to proof it a hundred times to spot them all, at least that's one less thing for readers to pick on.

As people have already said, you were right not to respond to the one-star review. Readers are entitled to an opinion, even if it's not a constructive one. Brush it off and focus your efforts on making improvements if necessary.

I totally agree with Effie. Everything I learned about writing came from critiques and editors; it can get expensive but the advice is invaluable. Once you've honed the craft, it sticks forever!

J.M. wrote: "I got a middling ( 3 star) review for one of my early "The Centurion Chronicles" books. It turns out the reviewer was some clown from Montana who also reviewed household appliances. Most people who..."

Yeah, that's pretty much the new world order. Clowns, aka everyday consumers, now get to review stuff they paid for and clowns, aka independent authors, get to publish via KDP. There's really not a hell of a lot of difference, except as with most things in life some are much better at it than others.

Alistair wrote: "The only problem with paying someone else to proofread your work is that you miss-out on the opportunity to improve your basic writing skills. Wait until you've found your 'writing' voice, and then..."

A great comment! It's really satisfying to edit my own work first, but I had to learn that it was necessary, indeed.

It's not that I don't have faith in the book. It's that I don't have much love for that opening. The story is about Kellen and Ferian, not Jerrick and Kerrick. I merely added it because at some point I felt it needed to be there. Perhaps it does not. It's part of the family history, but when I first started with Jerrick and Kerrick, they were just there. Something that took up space in the beginning of the book and there was no action. Just two brothers. But maybe if I shortened and revamped that section so that it started with Kerrick's journey and not his adventure with the Trow, that would be better. In fact now that I think of it, I'm not even thrilled with that opening...The rest of the story I like. That...not so much.

But I want to thank you all. This has actually been very useful to me. I went in assuming that the review was maliciousness and that it was him and not me. Turns out that it's the other way around and in fact it's me and not him. And now that I better understand what the issue is, it's fixable. Or maybe not, IDK. But that's okay. The goal now is to move forward and do what I can. Thank you all for your advice, it's been very valuable. Now I feel like I have to apologize for his bad experience. So it goes. But onward.

Alexandra wrote: "Um, a 3 star review isn't "middlin". It means "I liked it" which should please any reasonable author.

Why do you think consumers of household appliances aren't also consumers of books? That's a ve..."

The implication was that the reviewer was a hack & shouldn't be taken too seriously. As for middling on a scale of 1 to 5 a 3-star review is in the middle at least by my calculus.

Dante wrote: "Hey...You just got a bunch of free reviews for the first pages of your book. There's always something to learn. I'd advise you to stick with learning what you can from the people on here. Good luck..."

I love this contribution, how positive! :-)

Nobody says you have to read reviews. Just like nobody says you have to read the comments on political blogs, or click 'play' on every YouTube video.
Since we agree that you should not comment on them, there is no upside. If they give you stress, just don't do it. Bad reviews will eventually sink to the bottom without your doing anything about it.

JM - your entitled attitude toward a customer is truly mind boggling. Truth is, most self published books are amateurish crap. It's rare that an unknown self pubbed book is SO good it is better than "I liked it". You'd be wise to accept some readers will think you book is "middling"


That you call a reader a "hack" who shouldn't be allowed to express his opinion of your book because you somehow feel everyone must love it says more about you than the customer.

Shara wrote: "But I want to thank you all. This has actually been very useful to me. I went in assuming that the review was maliciousness and that it was him and not me. Turns out that it's the other way around ..."

Apologise! Nonsense, anyone who recognises the need for change is a winner in my book. But don't give-up quite yet, let it simmer for a while and go back to it with new eyes. Brains are amazingly sneaky things, they have a habit of coming up with solutions even when we haven't asked them to. (If that makes sense...) :)

Alexandra wrote: "JM - your entitled attitude toward a customer is truly mind boggling. Truth is, most self published books are amateurish crap. It's rare that an unknown self pinned book is SO good it is better tha..."

I agree. Most self-published books are crap. Some of us accept 3 star reviews; others aim a little higher. Correct me if I'm wrong but potential readers look at the cover first, then look inside or read the blurb & then read reviews. People who take the time to write reviews are avid readers. The majority of reviews written by the reviewer I referenced weren't about books & that's why I said what I did about him. In any case thanks for your responses.

It was merely frustrating, but now I see what the issue is. Something I missed and kept on missing. I did go back through it and that particular grammatical issue is hit or miss throughout. So it will be good to go through it again. And maybe rework the opening, as even I find it annoying now, lol. Since it's self-pub, I don't need to put any any excessive words and that's just bogging it down. I think the quicker the reader gets to Kellen and Ferian, the better it will be.

In defense of the self-published book, I've read some amazing ones. I've also read some traditionally published books by best selling authors who churn out 6 or 7 books a year and they have been crap. Some have reduced their writing to algebraic equations - plug in a new name and setting and bam! you have a new story.
I do think indies authors need to be more careful, though. They have to prove themselves since no one is backing them. The editing, especially, must be impeccable.

J.M. wrote: "Alexandra wrote: "The majority of reviews written by the reviewer I referenced weren't about books & that's why I said what I did about him. ."

I know, which is why I pointed out how utterly ridiculous it was. Just because someone is a consumer of appliances doesn't mean they are not also a consumer of books. And it certainly doesn't mean a consumer is a "hack" just because they typically post reviews for other consumer items.

People who read books also typically use appliances. People who use appliances also quite often read books. It's amusing you seem completely unaware of that fact.

Consumers have the same right to post their opinions regarding products on Amazon regarding books, even when they typically do not. This does not make a person a "hack". Nor does it make a three star review "middling".

You might have aimed higher than average, but you failed as far as that particular reader.

Which is why I also pointed out that your comments say much more about you than they do about the customer who's opinion displeases you so much.

Effie wrote: "In defense of the self-published book, I've read some amazing ones. I've also read some traditionally published books by best selling authors who churn out 6 or 7 books a year and they have been crap.."

Sure. However with the ease of self-publishing now via Amazon that doesn't change the fact that the majority of self-pubbed books are garbage, usually very amaturish, or worse. A good number are satisfactory, quite "ok", which means a 3 star review is nothing to turn a nose up at, nor feel entitled to something more.

There are certainly very good and excellent gems among self-pubbed books. I know they exist. I've read some of them. But they are the rare exception, not the norm. And they are all from authors who have worked very, very hard to provide a professional quality product.

The way some authors think, all self-pubbed books are four and five star books, and should be seen as such by every single person who reads them. Otherwise they are "trolls" and "hacks". While the truth is not only are most not better than average, but also readers opinions and tastes naturally and normally vary. A self-pubbed book that has only four and five star reviews is highly suspicious for shenanigans.

Additionally, people rate very popular or classic books low too. Just yesterday I saw someone rate "The Hobbit" two stars. Personally I LOVE that book, but that reader isn't a troll, or a hack, that's their opinion. They didn't like it. That's their honest review. And they're entitled to it.

Me, I have one of Steinbecks books one starred and shelved as "Worst Books of All Time". Same with the Giving Tree.

Readers and consumers get to express their own honest opinions in their reviews, even if the author doesn't like it. Some authors need to get that through their heads.

Shara wrote: "Now I feel like I have to apologize for his bad experience."

No, you don't. I'm guessing that was the KU borrow, which would be a good thing there for him/her :)

That you're willing to take the good advice you've gotten and work to make it better is a good thing. That attitude and the effort will help you grow as a writer.

But I would suggest de-listing it so someone else doesn't purchase it before it's *really* ready :D

As a writer of twenty years, I can say that there's a lot of learning to be had. This isn't an easy gig to get yourself into. No overnight dream come true here. I've taken a writer's workshop class and have worked years to improve my writing and still I'm learning. In interviews, my answer to the question, 'what advice do you have for aspiring writers,' is this, and I hope it helps you in your future writing endeavor, Shara. :)
I once read that you can make anything by writing. And it’s true! Writing opens minds, introduces new perspectives and brings people into worlds they never knew existed. Writing is an art form that is beautiful, tragic, complex, stunning and horrifying. My best advice for aspiring writers is to develop a thick skin. Take constructive criticism with a grain of salt and learn from what others tell you. Trust me, you’ll grow as a writer that way. And read! Read! Read! Read! When a writer is reading, it’s different than non-writers. We’re not just reading, we’re studying! We’re finding out new ways to describe things, broadening our vocabulary and learning how these other authors thread their stories together. Whatever genre you write, reading will help significantly when you put your own pen to paper. Don’t concern yourself about getting that first rough draft just right, either. First drafts are meant to free spirits and very ugly ones too. You only need to get your story out of your head and onto paper or in a Word document. Worry about making it pretty later on during editing. And don’t rush. It’s so easy nowadays to toss out stories in front of the whole world. Self-publishing has become easily available thanks to companies like Amazon and Createspace. Writers no longer need the gatekeepers’ permission to publish their work, or spend thousands of dollars going through a vanity press in the hopes that they’ll make that money back. Yet the ease to publish shouldn’t mean that the art of writing needs to be forgotten. Writing a book or novella takes time and ought to take just as long if not longer to make better through proper editing and revision. It’s best to sit on a manuscript for a while before going back to work on it rather than rush in getting it done just to publish it. It doesn’t matter how good the story is, if readers are distracted by poor writing and grammar flaws, you’ll lose them quick!