Support for Indie Authors discussion

I am new to the whole ratings thing. I got a three star rating with no review. So my question is do you see a 3 star rating as a bad rating? It is hard to tell if this was a rating based on the book being bad or lacking since there was no review to go with it.

How do you all see 3 star ratings - good, bad, indifferent? What if there is no review with the rating?

I want to make sure my books are entertaining and well written but with only a star rating I can't tell what the reader thought.

Thanks, Alex. I know it is like a mid rating I just think it odd that a review wouldn't have accompanied it. I would think if you rate something a 3 you would want to explain why it warranted such a rating, but maybe that is just me.

As for the absence of a review, some people may just think the star rating speaks for itself. Maybe they can't accurately articulate what they liked and didn't, but figured a three star rating would at least show they didn't hate it.

On Goodreads, three stars is considered a positive review - it even tells you what each star means when you hover over it when leaving a review. Three stars is "I liked it" which is positive in my books. Most of the people who left me written three star reviews said that they enjoyed it but there were aspects they didn't love. It's a lukewarm, not bad review. It's average.

A lot of unwritten reviews are three stars. If you really hate a book, you want to tell people why. If you adored a book, you want to tell people about it. If the book was fine but you just aren't married to it for indefinable reasons, what do you say about it?

On Amazon, three stars is considered a critical review. Most reviewers know this. A reviewer who left me two stars on goodreads ("it was ok" according to goodreads) upped it to three stars on Amazon for that reason.

Either way, there's no point in agonizing over on particular rating. I did that in the beginning, wincing at every three or two star that marred my fours and fives. But ultimately, all books will have low reviews and high reviews. A single data point doesn't tell you anything. Written reviews give me some insight into what the reviewer was thinking, but I consider the rating-only reviews to be meaningless datapoints that only matter in large aggregates.

Thank you C.L. This rating hit me hard and I think I got in my head too much and haven't been able to write since I saw it. I started to think maybe my book was not as good as others had led me to believe. I need to realize historical fantasy isn't everybody's cup of tea. I need to "let it go" and move on.

Thanks again.

Frank wrote: "Thank you C.L. This rating hit me hard and I think I got in my head too much and haven't been able to write since I saw it. I started to think maybe my book was not as good as others had led me to ..."

To paraphrase the words of the great Albus Dumbledore, really Frank, if you're waiting for universal 5-star reviews, you're going to be in this cabin for a long time.

No book in the history of the world has ever been loved universally by everyone. The best book you have ever read has one-star reviews from people who despise it. The most successful authors you have ever heard of have one-star reviews from people who loathe them.

Even if you perform some kind of miracle and write a book that is better loved than Harry Potter or Pride and Prejudice, and it's this big miracle book that absolutely no one could ever hate... you can't then say "but some people only liked it! Not absolutely everyone thinks it's brilliant!" without sounding a little weird.

I totally get how it feels. Every review feels like a personal judgment on you. The most validating review I ever got was the one that said "Ms. Lynch can write", because that was what I really needed to hear.

But when it comes to reviews, consensus is what matters. In his book On Writing, Stephen King says to distribute drafts of your book to ten people. If they all say different things, then disregard everybody. If several say the same thing, good or bad, then you can take that to the bank.

So don't look for what one reviewer says (although by all means bask in any rave reviews you get because that's what we live for, right?) but look for common themes in all of your reviews. If multiple reviewers say your plot sags or your book is poorly edited, then take it seriously and see what you can do to fix it or learn from it. And if multiple reviewers say they love your characters or your wit, then pat yourself on the back and believe them, too.

Don't let negative-- or positive-- reviews rule the way you think about your writing. Not everybody likes all flavors of ice cream, but for all those people who don't like Rum Raisin, if you happen to write Rum Raisin books, there will be someone you touch, who you will connect with through your writing that will make it all worth it. Get a critique group or beta readers and listen to their comments instead...and as was said above, if those critiquers (who hopefully like Rum Raisin, it's no good if they are critiquing and they don't like your genre) all say the same thing, then listen.

Hi Frank!
It's nice to meet another author in my same genre! I also write Historical Fiction/ Fantasy novels and I've found that, on average and compared to Amazon, Goodreads readers seem to be quite comfortable leaving a simple star rating without a review. In contrast, I've noticed my novel, "Miriamne the Magdala", gains much higher ratings on Amazon (4-5 stars) than on Goodreads where reader's ratings -lacking an adequate description -occasionally dip to 2-3 stars. I'm not certain why that is, but it may be due to the format Amazon uses to encourage commentary reviews compared to Goodreads.

Of course, it's upsetting to receive a low rating from a reader, but like C.L. stated above, the rating system is highly subjective and what appeals to the tastes of one reader simply may not connect with another. Writing styles, crossing genres, conflicting views, or even the format or the length of a novel could cause a reader to issue a low rating. What's important to remember is even "The Greats" earn low ratings sometimes, and it's up to authors to realize that a low rating without commentary might just be attributed to a reader having a bad day.

Most ratings on goodreads come without reviews and not everyone rates based on the same scale.

I wouldn't over-analyze it. ANY ratings are good ratings. Lower ratings show readers you're likely not just relying on friends or bought reviews, and it means the person finished your book and found it worthy of remembering online later.

Plus, on Goodreads, a lot of people mess around with ratings. There are people in some of my reading groups who 5 star everything until they read it, and THEN they edit it, or who give it one star to remind themselves this book is low on the priority list of books to read. There are people who've made up their own rating systems, people who use the same rating for Amazon and Goodreads (which is a maddeningly different scale) and people who hate reviews but love tracking books.

Humans are weird. Some people juggle geese. Grats on the new review!

Frank,

First of all, ratings and reviews are for readers, not writers. Do not let them be a gauge on your writing. Don't put your writing on hold over one rating / review, even if it is negative. Don't let ratings and reviews rule you. They are not that important.

Second, three stars means something different to everyone, but seldom does it mean "sucky" or "terrible" or "worst book ever". Most would say it means "okay" or "technically good, but not the book for me" or some such thing. Three stars is definitely not worth putting your work on hold for. It's not worth getting bummed out over, either.

Third, you have four five star reviews between Amazon and Goodreads and then this one three star. So, eighty percent of the people who have read your book loved it and one just thought it was an okay effort. Let them have their opinion and don't let it bother you. If this is going to undo you, I have some awful news for you - it will get worse. You will, at some point, get a drive-by one star from a total stranger. Even worse, unless your book is a rare overnight success, you will have weeks of no reviews and no stars. Do not let this stop you! Keep writing!

Fourth, just a light word of caution - I have seen people in this group and others openly discuss their "bad" reviews and the people reviewing it and I have seen it spiral out of control. It's usually best to discuss reviews in a more general way and not discuss the person reviewing you.

That's really good (and hopeful) advice! Publishing is definitely not for the faint of heart, and the potential for ones writing to be ignored, misunderstood, or unjustly criticized is enormous.

The best way to look at reviews and ratings is simply this: someone picked up your book. Love it, hate it, or simply meh, who gives a fig? The point is someone had your book and thought enough of it to publically acknowledge it and that is pretty damned amazing.

Thank you all. New writer anxiety I guess. I will let this one go and move on, lol.

I wouldn't worry about it. I've been at this for over twenty years as a author, avid reader and avid reviewer. Try not to sweat it. It'll only make you bitter in the long run. People have their opinions.

Dwayne wrote: "Frank,

First of all, ratings and reviews are for readers, not writers. Do not let them be a gauge on your writing. Don't put your writing on hold over one rating / review, even if it is negative. ..."

I agree. I accept 3 as positive. If it's 4 or 5 it sticks with the reader and they want to share. Possibly write a review. I rate a lot of 3s without writing a review.

Honestly, I don't see anything wrong with a three star rating, whether they leave a review or not. I was even happy with a two star after I noticed the reader had only given a three star to a very popular book. I didn't judge on the rating but on the fact that he had given me only a star less than that book, which had been turned into a movie. What can I say. I prefer to see the half full glass over the half empty one. :P

Frank wrote: I got in my head too much and haven't been able to write since I saw it.

Wait, WAIT!! Haven't been able to write? Helen H. Damnation Frank, you're a Historical Fantasy author, a rare talent shared by the likes of Umberto Eco, Neal Stephenson, and Dan Simmons. Just bust that funk and write, man. We need you.

I think people who look at ratings for book sales, want to see a range of ratings. Not everyone will love or hate a book. So a range I think is more realistic for those looking at sales. Just keep writing and doing the best you can.

I think three is perfectly reasonable.

Some people are more critical than others.

I always read the lower reviews. Usually more interesting and informative.

I think it can be easy to over-analyze these but a 3 doesn't strike me as a negative association. I'd also take into account that an opinion/rating may depend on the platform. For example, I might rate things differently for different end goals.
Netflix - I may rank something higher because I want to suggest things like that item
Amazon - I might take a bit more seriously for accuracy as people are likely filtering out things with lower ratings, so i want to be fair here.
Goodreads - if i do a rating without a review then its for purposes of getting suggestions, if I provide a review along with my rating then its probably a much more thought out rating.
~Hope this helps.

I look at it as a positive. Someone has read the book and thought it reasonable but perhaps needing work. Alternatively someone has enjoyed it but it hasn't grabbed them quite the way an author hopes. It happens.
Readers are different. I save my higher ratings for something in the book that really pulls at me.
Often too I find a three still gives the author a chance at other readers, and a chance to look at their work and perhaps take a few things on board.

Dwayne wrote: "Frank,

First of all, ratings and reviews are for readers, not writers. Do not let them be a gauge on your writing. Don't put your writing on hold over one rating / review, even if it is negative. ..."

Allison wrote: "I wouldn't over-analyze it. ANY ratings are good ratings. Lower ratings show readers you're likely not just relying on friends or bought reviews, and it means the person finished your book and foun..."

Darn...I can't think of anything to say that Dwayne hasn't already wrapped up here. Nicely done!

Frank - Get back to writing ;)

I don't give a hoot about ratings any more as I've discovered that the famous/fictitious five stars are based on 1) who you know and 2) the principle of "scratch my back and I'll scratch yours" which is predominant in the "successful authors" world.

I now write and publish to please myself and get a real kick out of it!

Marie-Anne wrote: "I don't give a hoot about ratings any more as I've discovered that the famous/fictitious five stars are based on 1) who you know and 2) the principle of "scratch my back and I'll scratch yours" whi..."

If you're referring to review swaps, yes they happen, but I'm certain that's not always the case behind five-star reviews.

Hi Dwayne,

Thanks for your take on the subject under discussion but to clarify,
with respect, I was not referring to swaps but to reviews on newly published books and the number of stars that they are accorded by readers - of course, it's not ALWAYS the case, but very often so that it has to do with favours received and granted on a reciprocal basis. It's just the kind of world we live in at the moment.

Everyone rates differently. There's no way to analyze it unless they also write a review, which most people don't bother.

A rating without a review is a single point on a graph, one data point with no reference to anything else.

Forget about it.

Marie-Anne wrote: "I was not referring to swaps but to reviews on newly published books and the number of stars that they are accorded by readers - of course, it's not ALWAYS the case, but very often so that it has to do with favours received and granted on a reciprocal basis. It's just the kind of world we live in at the moment."

It happens, I'm sure. But, I have seen newly published books with plenty of two and three star ratings. I'd go on, but we're getting a bit off-topic here as this isn't really the place to discuss the bad habits of others. Bottom line, if you don't care for what you're seeing other writers do, don't do it yourself.

Marie-Anne wrote: "I don't give a hoot about ratings any more as I've discovered that the famous/fictitious five stars are based on 1) who you know and 2) the principle of "scratch my back and I'll scratch yours" whi..."

Yeah, and you can also purchase reviews.
One answer is to read the LITB preview and judge it on its own merit.

Okay, this has strayed. Folks, bottom line is this: reviews are personal opinions; treat them as such. You don't have to agree, but you have to respect that everyone is entitled to theirs. Ratings without reviews are the same. No one is required to tell you why they rated a book the way they did. Don't worry about it. Keep writing.

Any additional deviation from the topic, our rules, or continued talk of what other people do, and we will lock this thread.