Vaginal Fantasy Book Club discussion

Wasn’t sure what to title this but I’ve been having these thoughts for a while and thought I’d throw them out here and see what folks think. I LOVE to talk and by talk I mean type because actually I’m pretty introverted and hate talking but I love voicing my opinion verbosely like a poorly written essay. So thanks in advance to all the strangers who were willing to read my rambles.

So sexism. It’s a thing and I know a lot of works out there try to combat it particularly the one about woman being weak. And in the world of fantasy/sci fi , we have a lot of stories with the Buffy type characters; the girls that kick ass and take names. Don’t get me wrong. I love these stories. I’m a huge Buffy fan. These stories have their place. But more and more I’m finding good solid “strong” female characters in the worlds of fantasy/sci fi/anime are labeled as “weak” or worse “sexist” simply because they don’t have the physical prowess of their male counterpart in the story. And I find that honestly very problematic.

I’m going to use 2 examples. Both of these examples come from the world of anime because that’s what I’ve been reading/watching for the past 15 years. I don’t think this is a trend in that space alone but I’m not an expert on other mediums. Anyway, spoiler alert. I don’t know how to make my point without going into mid story spoilers on some of the characters. So I apologize in advance I’ll try not to have any core plot point spoilers.

Hakuoki:

Hakuoki is a dating sim game made into an anime. It’s a historical fantasy taking place during the time when Japan was at war just before they went imperialistic this was around 1860ish. We follow a group of real life folks known as the Shinsengumi, a battalion of samurai during this fateful war. Our protagonist, Chizuru, really is meant to be a fly on the wall; a narrator simply to allow us a window into the lives of these famous men. But thanks to some great writing she is a solid character in her own right. She is very compelling, strong, and loyal.

But she is not a trained samurai. She is not a trained solider. She has had a small amount of self defense training with a short sword. Something given to girls so they don’t get raped by drunkards basically. She is a regular girl in a time period where woman’s freedom is fairly limited. In the story there is this circumstance that causes her to live with this group of soldiers. As events unfold she ends up having to take on more and more responsibilities during the war. She acts basically as a page. Running through war zones to relay messages and to help get wounded off the battlefield. But she never swordfights. She isn’t supposed to swordfight. She is not a swordfighter. She is not a samurai. This fact causes waves upon waves of comments online where people complain. “OMG Chizuru is so annoying. She is so weak. Fight already. You have a short sword at your belt. USE it. OMG you suck. God she is so annoying.”

These complaints seem to ignore the obvious strengths in her character. Like example. There is a scene where two samurai are fighting. A sword flies into the air and comes crashing down. Chizuru uses her body to shield a wounded samurai on the field. She even has her arm get sliced by this flying sword before it falls to the ground. She doesn’t cry. She doesn’t complain about the pain. She stoically stays to her task of trying to save wounded soldiers. And that’s her character. She is incredibly brave despite the fact that she is not a fighter. Another scene she gets accosted by a group of enemy samurai. She doesn’t cry. She doesn’t scream for help. She stands assertively in a defense position with her broom and talks to the enemies calm and with confidence. And this is why I find her character so compelling, her bravery despite her lack of physical prowess. She knows she has no shot in heck when it comes to actual combat but that doesn’t intimidate her. She stands her ground and is willing to stand alongside her friends and allies in the capacity that she is able.

From Far Away:

This is a typical spirited away story. Noriko is a Japanese High School girl who, thanks to a terrorist bomb, gets literally blasted into a parallel world. This is a world of monsters, magic, and political upheaval. Our male love interest Izark is a typical, tall, stoic, crazy strong mercenary. At the beginning Noriko does screech a lot and sticks to Izark like a lost puppy. But honestly who can really blame her. She gets ported by a bomb to a world where the first thing she sees is a monster that eats a monkey than turns to stare at her. I think a lot of folks would be pretty freaked out. To add to her insecurity, unlike a lot of spirited away stories, she doesn’t know the language in this new world at all. She spends the first 3 months in the story’s timeline just learning how to communicate to the people around her.

The thing with her character is that she doesn’t get super depressed or despondent about her situation as insane as her situation is. In each moment, she’ll have an inner monologue where she assesses her situation and what in her power she is able to do no matter how small. And that’s what I love about her, her adaptability and resilience. Whether it’s being chased by a monster or finding herself alone in a hostile city, she’ll take stock, assess what she is capable of doing to improve her situation and do it. It’s kind of the theme of the whole story that your contributions no matter how small collectively as a whole can make big changes. So while even Noriko will lament that she is physically weak compared to the mercenaries and soldiers she is with, she will still decide to focus on what she is capable of doing rather than wallow in self pity over what she can’t do.

Bravery, resilience, fortitude, emotional maturity; these are just some of the qualities that I feel make a character a “strong” character and they have nothing to do with whether the person can win in a fight. And yet it feels like in the world of fantasy/sci fi , winning a fight is all that matters when determining if a character is weak or strong.

Let’s compare for a moment to the book we just read, the falconer. There were a few that commented that they had heard the lead character was a good feminist role because the character was “strong”. But I personally found the character to be weak. Now I’m very biased here. I kinda hated the book so my judgment to assess the character is a bit clouded. But to me the character was a mess. She was reeling from her mother’s death, had spiraled into what can only be described as depression and drug addiction. She was drifting further and further from her friends and family and losing her ability to function in society. Replace fae killing with heroine and this would be a pretty stereotypical angst story about grief and drug addiction. Now if she overcomes said grief and drug addiction, the story could become a story about a strong compelling character but considering the context I doubt the story plans to head in that direction. And yet Kam is “strong” because she fights with an electricity gun, whoop de doo.

Anyways I find this to be very problematic because I feel like we are teaching girls (and guys) the wrong signal on what real strength is. I feel a truly feminist role is one where the female is showing strength in character not in prowess. Now there are some characters that are both. A great example of this would be Inuyasha. Kagome is both a strong character with amazing emotional maturity and resilience but she also fights alongside Inuyasha with her priestess bow. Those rolls are great. I only wish that people would see those rolls and think things like “wow Kagome is a bad ass. She understands how to embrace and process her negative emotions growing from them rather than trying to push them down and letting them fester. She openly expresses her feelings without hesitation but also considers other people emotions with empathy and compassion. She kicks ass.” But instead people usually think “wow Kagome is a bad ass she hit Naraku with her bow from the opposite side of the field after declaring he was dead that was so cool.”

And those are my thoughts on the subject. Does anyone else feel there is too much focus on female leads in fantasy being physically strong. Is that really not the case outside of anime? What female leads in books are you a fan of that was not a fighter? Or female leads that are fighters but you feel also showcase other important strengths? Are you wondering how I can possibly type so much? :P

Would love to hear everyone’s thoughts.

I don't quite have your way with words but this has been bothering me for some time now. A book that's advertised with an 'strong female character' automatically means it's how women should be. A kind of unspoken standard. But to me if you can't replace it with 'strong male character', or 'strong alien character' then the word strong itself looses it's meaning.

I also think the focus is too much on a female being psychically strong. But also I think that stems from a time in which the male characters, who were the most popular, were also psychically strong. You never read about a dude crying and then supporting another dude to overcome something while being a character that is seen as strong (serieus though if someone does know a book as such please mention it).

I do think the stories will get better. Slowly we are appreciating character traits that were seen as 'female' as a source as strength and not only in supporting characters. But also in males. I can't recall such a story but in classrooms I can see the change.

Oh wait I can mention a book but that's not scifi, fantasy or anime: Rejected Princesses: Tales of History's Boldest Heroines, Hellions, and Heretics. No males though.

This is so not an answer to your question and also murky because of my very bad translation skills. But hopefully it gave another (somewhat related) perspective on the topic.

I prefer to think of a character with emotional maturity, empathy, critical thinking skills, and intellect as strong. I've tried to find books with heroines like this, but it's hard because they usually only have one characteristic I want. If they're smart, they're constantly crying or being a bitch to everyone. If they're the emotional support for their friends, they usually end up in stupid situations because they don't think. Sometimes a smart girl will come off as pompous and arrogant. Sometimes a nice girl will come off as a useless ditz. It's hard to find a book that has a good balance.

It's hard for me to like a character who constantly has relationship drama because they can't communicate, hates all members of their gender, is mean and bulldozes over everyone so they can be seen as tough, jumps headfirst into any situation without thinking, and is as dumb as a box of rocks, therefore their solution to everything is "hit/shoot it until we fix it". This is why I despise the character of Anita Blake.

I've played Hakuoki. I liked how you could (to a point) stop Chizuru from going into places she had no business being, and the narration had her confirming that she would be safer if she didn't leave the base. I think that because she's young compared to most of the guys, she came off as a bit too immature for me, plus she looked extremely young. It didn't help that all of the guys were fighters and constantly in battle, therefore you had to have Chizuru follow them, even if you knew it wasn't a good idea, in order to get on their path. She's not weak, even though she's not a fighter, and I think the creators wanted to keep some authenticity there, because they could have easily made her a better fighter if they wanted.

So, yeah, I'm of the opinion that emotion and intellect are stronger than physical strength. Not just for heroines, but heroes as well.

Let me start by saying I dislike the phrase “strong female character” and avoid using it anymore. Whatever it initially meant, it has taken on a tone of tokenism and patronage. It always seems to be used with flat characters who are being propped up with good looks and badassery. Instead of being being the princess in the tower, she’s the princess with superpowers. But she’s still a poorly-written, two-dimensional stereotype. To me, saying, “She’s a strong female character” is no different than saying, “She’s a strong character…for a woman.”

All characters, regardless of gender, need depth, history, motivation, and most importantly, a stake in the actions going on around them. It is their pasts that shapes their personalities, their desires that influence their choices, and the consequences of both that define their futures. If the sum total of your character description is “She likes to kick butt because she’s an outsider with a bad attitude”, then you haven’t done your writing homework. “Strong female character” needs to be tossed in the bin along with “damsel in distress” and “women in refrigerators”.

Some related articles:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strong_...
http://www.newstatesman.com/culture/2...
https://www.themarysue.com/strong-fem...
https://www.bustle.com/articles/19620...
https://thedissolve.com/features/expo...
https://www.lightsfilmschool.com/blog...

A strong character, in my opinion, is someone who preservers. They keep going when things are tough. For a good cause.

I've been reading fantasy for years, and it's been bothering/annoying me for a while that heroines only seem to be 'strong' by picking up a sword and learning how to fight like a man. What about a heroine who gets things sorted by being smart and empathetic character?

Despite her badass weaponry use in the second half of the film, I would say Ripley in Aliens is a great female character.

I think as readers we're starting to realize that we don't just want "strong" female characters, or female characters with seemingly masculine qualities that get called "strong," but rather deeply complex female characters that are not just one-dimensional flops intended to move a plot along.

Glad to see things are different here. I cannot emphasize enough how much the anime community hates on Chizuru because she is not Japan's version of Mulan or Joan of Arc. And the issue I had was less on the writers and more on the fans. I felt like the roles were getting written but the backlash against them from fans was usually fierce. I particularly hated it when people decried sexism just because a character was not written as a fighter as if fighters were the only characters to have any worth in the world of fantasy/sci fi.

Looking forward to reading more books with everyone unfortunately going to miss this months because my library is REALLY slow on holds it would seem :(