Never too Late to Read Classics discussion

Part II Chapter 1
Versilov starts visiting Arkady on a very regular basis. He admits he is still trying to control things, having Versilov come to him first.

The start having these talks about random things. Arkady is disappointed that there was not more in the talk. Versilov is an well like man and easily makes acquaintances which seem to upset Arkady in more than just jealousy.

Oh by the way: "I will explain later" really is irrating. Will he? Or is that just a way out of not letting us know details?

As he is writing he states he is almost 50, likes life, not in love with life, which to him is contemptible??

Arkady finally ask Versilov the question..."I want to know what I'm to do and how I'm to live." The once you are a man talk from his father, but does he really listen? Moral guidance is given but not well accepted. So why ask the question?

Versilov tries to guide him in work that is respectable and will keep him busy and his mind clear. Arkady seems to be more lost than ever with these talks. He is not hearing what he wants to be told? Still in the teenage mind set.

Arkady want to talk about religion but not truly. He does not believe, which seems ok with Versilov (though he is) as atheist he explains as respectable, conscientious and pillars of the homeland.


Golden rules: Silence is picturesque! and love for humanity

Part 2 Chapters 1-3

Ch1
Agree with your thoughts on Arkady and Versilov. They are bonding but Arkady wants clear black and white direction from Versilov. Versilov provides a lot of philosophical wisdom but does not want to be over directional with Arkady. I sense that Versilov feels he does not have the right to be directive with Arkady and to change his direction whether that is religion, education or is move into the 'high-life'.

Ch2
Young Prince Sergei promises Versilov one-third of the inheritance. The two get on well to a point but Sergei gets irritated with Versilov's 'teachings'. Sergei in deep money trouble.

Sergei and Stebelkov have a heated discussion. We know Stebelkov does some dodgy financial deals so there is something bad here.

Sergei trying to get in with Naschokin who is high society, but it doesn't go well but we do learn that Katya going to marry Baron Bjoring. Arkady tries to defend Katya's honour rather naively.

Sergei has a gambling mate Darzan. Arkady seems to be getting in with a bad crowd.

Ch3
Arkady sees Stebelkov who wants him to be his spy. A marriage between Sergei and Anna Andreevna would solve Sergei's debts with Stebelkov. Arkady says no.

Arkady visits Anna. He thinks she is lovely and she is with Lisa and they seem to be close. When they leave though she tells him Anna is nasty and cunning.

They secretly see Sergei arrive, presumably to propose to Anna. Lisa is very agitated.

Ch2 Young Prince Sergei promises Versilov one-third of the inheritance...."

I did not understand why the promise of a third?

Yes, the honorable thing would have been, at the very least, going 50/50. Sergei would have nothing if Versilov had not handed over the letter (and the letter itself was regarded as not decisive).

We are seeing Sergei as weak and not an honorable character - he took advantage of Lydia, he has got into debts (through gambling?), is considering marrying Anna Andreevna just for her money. So only offering a third is in line with his other behaviors.

I think Dostoevsky is showing us the contrast between Sergei and Versilov. Sergei is old nobility but he is becoming weak and rotten. Versilov is also from nobility and may have been similar to Sergei in his youth, but he is now embracing new ideas, becoming more liberal, trying to do the right thing, talking with Vasin to understand what the young liberals are trying to achieve etc

Thank goodness no Special Election in August this year. A first for us in 4 years!!

That's good to hear. It's Election day tomorrow in the UK. With everything that's going on we need some strong leadership!

Tony wrote: "Thank goodness no Special Election in August this year. A first for us in 4 years!!

That's good to hear. It's Election today tomorrow in the UK. With everything that's going on we need some strong..."

Yes, I can understand wanting strong, honest leadership!
I just want to say Tony that I am very saddened by the ISIS activity that has been happening against the citizens. Praying for all affected.

Lesle wrote: " just want to say Tony that I am very saddened by the ISIS activity that has been happening against the citizens. Praying for all affected."

Yes, Lesle, there are some very sad stories of innocent young lives wasted, and families devastated. We pray for them and that we stay united as a multicultural society against these attacks.

I do not care for Stebelkov and the relationship he is having with Arkady.

Just saying!

Sorry Tony for the delay! will be rough for a couple weeks, both boys are playing baseball, yesterday was an all dayer! Games all next week, maybe Friday off. Not sure as of yet.

There are play offs next week!

Chapter 4
Arkady goes to Tatyana's home to meet with Katerina. The had words about her marrying the Baron.
Arkady is so in love with Katerina his feelings are just gushing.
They discuss the letter and Arkady states the Kraft tore it up before he took his life. Now that she thinks it is destroyed Arkady wonders if that is the only reason for their tryst. She confesses the letter was because of the doubts she had of her father and if he saw it she might be estranged from him. Her confession? to him as a wretched raw youth! He fesses his love for Katrina and they finally agree they shall not meet.

Chapter 5
Arkady has dinner with Versilov and his Mother.
Tatyana shows up, Arkady admits there is no pleasantries between them. She pretty much cannot stand the sight of him.
A discussion of judgement between father and son with Versilov stating he could not because Tatyana at one point told him "He had no right to judge others because he did not know how to suffer"
They speak to Arkady about his gambling and where the money is coming from and he states he will give it up. Gambling is beastly!

There is major hatred between Tatyana and Arkady.

Versilov tells Arkady the he has evolved a great deal. Over a glass of tea Arkady tells his father about Katrina. He finds out while he was with her Tatyana was at home, her feeling safer with her there. He feels betrayed, a horrible joke and again blames it on his raw youth. He is hurt deep. Like your first true love ending in heartbreak.

Good summary Lesle. I'd only add that Versilov was 'listening terribly' to what Arkady told him about his feelings for Katya.

Chapter 6

Arkady considers "What hatred Versilov has for this woman" (Katya)
Arkady goes to play roulette at Zerschikovs and tells us "I'm totally unable to behave myself in society" (Yes, we know!)
Wins big but Aferdov steals from his winnings but Arkady lets it go. Prince Sergei and Darzan ignore him and leave him standing in the road.
Arkady goes to Sergei at his home - they argue badly, the Prince sneers at him, Arkady throws him back his money. The Prince then reveals he has made Lisa pregnant and thought Arkady was just scrounging money off him because of that. Arkady shocked. The Prince realises his error and asks forgiveness for his mistrust.

Chapter 7
Lisa and Arkady talk. She has accepted Sergei's proposal.
Versilov and Arkady talk. Again Versilov says he does not want to poke into other people's consciousness anymore.
Versilov reveals that Anna will marry the Old Prince. That's why she asked Versilov if he loved Katya. She couldn't marry the father if Versilov was going to marry the daughter. (More and more there seems to be some sort of strong love/hate relationship between Versilov and Katya).

The rest of the chapter is about Sergei. What does Lisa see in him!! We learn about his regimental shame, that he would have proposed to Anna for the money (even though Lisa 'his true love' was pregnant) but she gave him signals not to propose, and we learn that he is caught up in a financial couterfeiting scam which he is now being blackmailed for. He seems lost outside of the old structures. He is a mess.

Lesle wrote: "Sorry Tony for the delay! will be rough for a couple weeks, both boys are playing baseball, yesterday was an all dayer! Games all next week, maybe Friday off. Not sure as of yet.

There are play of..."


Hope the little league baseball is going well Lesle.

It doesn't matter to me how long it takes us to do the buddy read - I'm enjoying doing it - and I'm happy reading other stuff in the meantime so that we can go at the same pace.

Chapter 6 : Prince Sergei and Darzan ignore him and leave him standing in the road..."

I did not understand the Prince in his attitude towards Arkady during this time and after the gambling. I was shocked I think just as much as Arkady was. Still her being pregnant is not Arkady's problem. Nor why he borrowed money from the Prince, he thought is was Versilov's money. So Prince has an attitude for him mistake before finding out the truth from Arkady. He has enough issues on his own he really doesn't need help from the Prince.

Good summary Tony on chapter 6. I was disappointed in him continuing the gambling though instead of quitting like he said he would.

Versilov is a player.

Tony, I appreciate you not minding the slower pace for now.

Brayden's team will go to the playoff's. Not sure about Landen's.
Landen played last night. The lost bad!

Brayden tonight!

Chapter 7
I did not like his attitude with Liza with him telling her she was deceiving him (childish-not for him to know till she tells him) or the Mother telling her to live with it.

Arkady does not understand Liza wanting to marry or love him.

Verilov seems like a sensible person and understands what is going on around him, but his affairs?

Stepanov lives off others. Greed and Con!

Prince tells Arkady of how Liza became to stand beside him and boost him from death back to life. He also confesses of forging shares in the railway by means of Stebelkov.

Arkady's answer to the Prince's problem: Prince Nikolay.

Part II chapter VIII

Vassin tells Arkady that Prince Sergay is not of right mind and pretty much the same for Versilov. Warning Arkady that Versilov may be in a duel shortly.

The Old Prince adores his daughter Katerina. Upon seeing Arkady Katerina left at once and getting into a carriage, disturbing her father. I believe the letter from Versilov had a lot to do with it, a nasty letter deceiving Arkady.

The Baron has words with Versilov in regards to the disgusting business telling him he is no longer of society.

Tony, I liked Versilov in the beginning, now, not so much!!

Still have part 6 to read, could not finish by end of lunch.

Hi Leslie,

Latest update.

Yes, I agreed with you on Versilov, he is not what I thought. I saw him as someone who had changed and developed wisdom with age, but his latest actions are bizarre. Arcady describes Versilovs letter to Katya as "written by a madman" but Versoilov later says of Katya to the Baron's representative "she is the most noblest being and the height of all perfections".

At the end of Chapter 8 Sergei and Arcady go gambling to try and win the money Sergei needs to pay his blackmailers (which Sergei sees as "the lackeys way out".

Ends in chaos with Arkady accused of theft and leaving the gambling house in shame.

Chapter 9

Arkady in a crazy state and even considers setting fire to a wood yard. He falls and knocks himself unconscious.

Dreams of the time his Mother came to Touchards school to see him (having saved her own money to come), her sorrow and guilt and his love of her.

He then dreams of Lambert beating him and wakes to find Lambert shaking him on the street to wake up. Lambert takes him home. Arkady babbles and reveals the secret of the letter he has. There is trouble coming here.

Arkady 'escapes' whilst Lambert goes for a doctor and finds his way home.

Arkady finds out he has an apology from the gambling house as the 'stolen' money was found. Sergei here had forced an apology.

Bit of a switch round here for me. Whilst Versilov has gone down in my estimation, Prince Sergei has stood up to his situation and taken the 'princely' route. He has confessed to his counterfeiting, admitted his shame to his regiment, confessed to Lisa and got Arkady that apology.

On to Part 3!

Yes! What is that all about "she is the most noblest being and the height of all perfections". ugh!


PART 3???????!!!!!!! Oh My! I am so far behind!

Part III
Chapter 1
Arkady comes to after 9 days! and decideds to leave his family as soon as he can. While healing, he hears noises coming from a room down below. Arkady checks out the noise to find Makar sick. Makar and Arkady talk and bond.

Chapter 2
Liza tells Arkady that she has been caring for Andrei Petrovich’s baby and that Tatyana and Anna have become friends. Arkady acts as if nothing matters but is really upset about what is happening. He is really frustrated. Looking for comfort Arkady goes to Makar.

Arkady becomes ill and dreams, Katerina tries to charm Arkady to give her the letter, Arkady throws it to her, after he leaves she is kidnapped. Arkady remembers the dream as a foretelling.

Chapter 3 is more of Makar and Arkady talking of God and religion.

Chapter 4
Arkady again focuses on his family. He realizes that Vasin has offered Liza his hand in marriage which she rejects him.

The family gathers around Makar for his last words. Makar offers guidance to Arkady and forgives Versilov and Sofya. Makar tries to help Liza in the decision to marry the Prince. Arkady visits Prince Sergei in prison and they talk but it does not make much sense. The Prince speaks against Vasin and Liza.

Arkady goes home and he remains confused as to his family and if he is really on his own.

Great job Lesle - now I feel so far behind! - some late night catch up reading for me.

Reading more later myself!

To be honest the whole story has taken a turn!

Chapter 5
Arkady visits Anna who gushes over him, a little taken back, but enjoying it anyways.
They discuss the night of his lying ill and Lambert trying to see him, Anna being of nothing but concern. Arkady realizes that Anna can convince a man of anything she wants, he asks her what she expects from him. She stumbles trying to state he is her only friend and champion! She wants the letter to save the Old Prince. He declines as he realizes Anna and Lambert are conspiring and up to no good!
Arkady goes to visit Lambert who seems genuinely happy to see him, but runs into some men at Lambert's door, Arkady does not trust them as they seem to have a control over Lambert and his money, he is frightened by them.
He makes a statement that they cost more than they are worth? So he hired these men but why?
They cause him nothing but problems. Arkady states that he is not Lamberts friend and calls him a swindler.

Lesle wrote: "Chapter 5
He makes a statement that they cost more than they are worth? So he hired these men but why? They cause him nothing but problems.

Been a catch up Sunday for me!

We have been told that Lambert is part of a criminal gang that focuses on blackmail mostly aimed at family secrets, sometimes as a group, sometimes on their own. Andreev and Trishatov are Lambert's lackeys who do some of his dirty work - but he doesn't seem to have full control over them - except through keep throwing them money.

At the end of Ch 5 Lambert, Arkady, Andreev & Trishatov go to a restaurant and meet 'the pockmarked one' who is clearly Lambert's superior in the gang.

Both Trishatov and Andreev have taken to Arkady and both warn him not to let Lambert get him drunk.

Trishatov, in particular, seems to want to befriend Arkady and asks Arkady if he would be received by Arkady if he called on him. That implies that Trishatov sees a nobility in Arkady.


Chapter 6

Despite the warnings Arkady is getting drunk and Lambert completes the job with champagne at the Oyster shop.

Lambert directly approaches Arkady about joining forces on the blackmail, either by getting money from Anna for the letter - although he sees Anna as treacherous and a dangerous partner - or by getting the money from Katya, even maybe by getting a marriage between Arkady & Katya.

In the conversation Arkady says he doesn't believe Versilov loves Katya - maybe he did once - but now he loves Mama and hates Katya - and Katya is frightened of him because he can become a madman when he wants revenge.

Despite being drunk Arkady escapes Lambert's clutches and heads home. On the way home he ponders whether he could actually marry Katya and does some drunken 'philosophising' about women.

Gets home. Makar has died. Versilov is in 'some extraordinary excitement'. Arkady runs to get Auntie. Finds Katya at Aunties and is left alone with her.

Katya sees Makar's death as a release for Versilov - that he can now give peace to Sofya, and to himself - and that "he will let me live in the world too!"

Katya says she does not love anyone. Does Arkady hear?


Lambert, Versilov, Katya, Anna - the document is still central to their lives.

Lambert completes the job with champagne at the Oyster shop

I started reading 6 and was like Champagne? and Oyster Bar? dead give-a-way! Arkady should have known better.

I still feel like the 3 guys were not worth the headache and money Lambert had to deal with for the dirty jobs they provided.

Chapter 6
Lambert offers 30,000 rubles for the letter, Arkady refuses.
Lambert offers to rig a marriage between Arkady and Katerina, which he knows is not possible.
(Arkady at home) Katerina confesses that she wants everyone to be happy Versilov the most.

Chapter 7
Arkady leaves home and runs into Versilov. Versilov wants him to go home with him. They look at pictures of Sofya and Lydia. Arkady realizes Versilov is opening up and is being sincere. Excited about their closeness they discuss life and love.

Arkady needs to simplify life - things are way to complicated.

Lesle wrote: "Chapter 7
Arkady needs to simplify life - things are way to complicated. "

Yes, way too complicated!

Real bonding, finally, between Versilov and Arkady, and Versilov 'radiant with happiness and strength' now he feels everything is resolved.


Chapter 8.

Arkady learns about the past, about Versilov and his Mama and Versilov & Katya.
Versilov left Sofya, 'unmarrying' her to wander Europe as he took in European ideas, but then realised he loved her completely and sent for her.

While waiting he met Katya and totally forgot Sofya leaving her penniless in transit!
With Katya it was his fate to have a raging passion for a woman who wants nothing to do with him (though she may have flirted with him in the beginning). Raging love turns to raging hate, there is a thin line between.

Arkady tries to rationalise it and, I think, gets pretty close. Arkady feels Versilov loves his Mama with a more general, and higher, human love, and had a 'more simple' passionate attraction to Katya.

It also seems that Makar's death has released Versilovs feelings for Arkady and that he can now treat him as his proper son.

Despite the warmth and joy of their meeting the chapter ends with concern. Versilov has to write to Katya, he tells Arkady to drop Lambert and tear up the document. Arkady wonders how Versilov could know the document still exists if not from Lambert, he also wonders if Versilov's two year passion could vanish so quickly as a dream, like fumes, like a phantom?

Chapter 8 (additional thoughts)

Versilov still struggles with his belief in God, based on his feelings towards a godless society, not being possible.

Versilov explains his love for Sofya, but he had a passion for Katerina which he called 'Fate'.

Versilov has the letter from Katerina asking that he leaves her alone.

Chapter 9
(Just the start)
Arkady wakes up happy and relieved! Relieved that his father does not love Katrina (THAT WOMAN) any longer and Happy he is the man he can look up to.

Chapter 9

Arkady wakes up happy and relieved --- and then the wheels start falling off.

Versilov has disappeared, mama is crushed and Auntie warns of the 'deadly noose'.

Arkady bumps into Lambert and says he wants nothing to do with him and shows off by saying he will hand the letter to Katya at Aunties tomorrow.

Sees Anna's brother (the Kammerjunker) leaving his apartment block.
Finally runs to Anna's place but she has left to go to the Old Prince in Tsarskoe.

Fails to find Versilov. Tells us the story of his ridicule by the Kammerjunker back in Moscow.

Returns to his apartment to find Alphonsine there, presumably snooping (for the letter?).

I'm thinking - Arkady - why don't you destroy the letter!!**

Alphonsinka and Pyotr were definately looking for the letter.
I'm thinking - Arkady - why don't you destroy the letter!!**
Tony, i totally agree! So why isnt he "Burning the Document?"

Chapter 10
Anna's plan is to tell the Prince everything, even his daughter’s letter in order to frighten him and to show there is a threat to their impending marriage. She would then take the frightened Prince to Petersburg to Arkady. She hoped Arkady would be worried and give up the document.

Trishatov came to warn him about some treacherous plan against him from Lambert. The pock-marked one did not give him any details and he leaves.

Arkady attends Makar’s funeral with the family all but Versilov. He spends time read St Luke to his mother for comfort. They talked of memories and Tatyana spoke of things he was not aware of.

Versilov shows up with a bunch of flowers for Sofia for her Birthday.
Versilov receives the ikon and after holding it he speech is strange and fast, and his hands shaking. They have him put the ikon down. He tells them he is going off to wander again. He smashes the ikon and leaves.
Sofia has Arkady to take off after him but to no avail. Arkady goes to Anna and finds that Versilov has asked Katerina to marry him.

Arkady is in disbelief he goes to Anna and she tells him that they are meeting at 7, so he eavesdrops on them and overhears that Katerina did, once, love Versilov. Versilov asks her not to marry. No words of love now exists for Katerina she soon got over those feelings for Versilov. She states that marrying him will give her the most peace. Versilov has lost it and begs her not to marry.

Lesle wrote: "I'm thinking - Arkady - why don't you destroy the letter!!**
Tony, i totally agree! So why isnt he "Burning the Document?"

Lesle, I'll give you a choice of answers to this.

A) Either consciously or unconsciously Arkady does not want to give up the power the letter gives him and he doesn't think through the bad things that could happen if this letter fell into the wrong hands. The letter turns him from a nobody into someone who is in the centre of the intrigue between Katya, Anna, Lambert et al. Rather naively, he does still hope that he can act as Katya's saviour which will make her either eternally grateful to him and/or fall into his arms (Yes, this is the same Katya that Versilov cannot cope with!).

B) He is stupid.

HAHAHAHahahahahaHHAHAHAHA!

Lesle wrote: "HAHAHAHahahahahaHHAHAHAHA!" :-)


Lesle wrote: "Trishatov came to warn him about some treacherous plan against him from Lambert. The pock-marked one did not give him any details and he leaves."

I missed this when I read it, I just thought it was Trishatov, the lackey. The pockmarked one obviously doesn't like Lambert either. (I think you were right when you said Lambert's men were causing him nothing but problems and more trouble than they were worth).

Chapter 11

Arkady mad with anger after spying on Versilov and Katya so runs to Lambert with a crazy idea to blackmail Katya and expose her as loathsome to Versilov as she pays the ransoms.

Lambert just agrees but, basically, wants to get Arkady drunk. This time he succeeds and Arkady falls asleep. Although Arkady again gets away when he wakes up and denounces his crazy plan as just ravings he tells us that, although he did not know it then, Lambert and Alphonsine have taken the letter and replaced it with a blank sheet of paper sewn back into his jacket.

Arkady goes back to his apartment and the Old Prince and Anna are in the rooms next door. The old Prince is fearful and mistrustful. Anna is trying to implement her plan, the Prince doesn't want things to develop.

When alone, Anna tries to get Arkady to support her. He refuses and says he wants to try and reconcile the two hostile women (good luck with that!).

Anna getting frantic and desperate to find Lambert who is suddenly not available (Lambert preferring his plan to sell the note to Katya).

Next day Arkady is alone with the Prince as Anna continues to look for Lambert. The Prince is getting terribly confused and in distress - and just wants to be happy with both Anna and Katya.

Last desperate conversation for Anna as she and Arkady blame each other for the Old Prince's condition. Arkady says the only way is to bring the two women together and leaves.

Arkady is still under the delusion that he has the letter sewn in his jacket.

Tony
I do not understand how he is so gullible to these people that keep getting him drunk. How does he not see the deception!??

Chapter 11
So he drinks (again) with Lambert and hatch a plan to make Katrina look bad in Versilov's eyes and want nothing else to do with her. Lambert agreed with everything? Arkady thinks the plan will cure Versilov of his feelings.

Lambert did not ask about the document Arkady...he has it!

Arkady wakes after a long sleep and checks..Yes it is still sewn in the pocket! Wow!

All this planning will bring Versilov back to his mother and him finally realizing he had been scammed!
The Old Prince was shocked, crushed and stunned by the truth of his daughter's trachery. He begs Arkady not to tell him of the document or anything for that matter.
After denying Anna, she goes in search of Lambert for help.

Chapter 12
Arkady tells Tatyana everything! He admits to his plan of revenge for himself. Tatyana wants him to give her the letter, as she believes he is lying. They trade words and Arkady tell Tatyana that she has loved Versilov all her life!

Dud dud da! I told you Tony!!!!

Lesle wrote: "Dud dud da! I told you Tony!!!! "


👏👏👏👏👏👏

Chapter 12
When Arkady returns home he finds the Old Prince is being kidnapped! Arkady tries to intervene fighting them in the street. He becomes arrested. Tatyana saves him the next day.

Lambert gets in touch with Versilov after stealing the letter. Versilov in a moment devises a diabolical plan. Marya was paid to inform them. Upon seeing the gun she rushes to tell Arkady that Katrina was here and they had a gun!

Lambert was shouting at Katrina and had the letter in hand. Demanding money 30,000 roubles! Upon arguing Katerina spits in his face. Lambert pulls the gun. Versilov mans up and takes the gun and smashes into Lamberts head. Arkady and Versilov struggle with the gun as Versilov tries to kill himself.

What the heck? Unbelievable what one goes through for money and lust!

Lesle wrote: "Chapter 12 What the heck? Unbelievable what one goes through for money and lust! "

Yes a frantic end. Katya shows she is a tough one, Versilov completely loses his mind and the pockmarked one betrays Lambert, telling Trishatov to tell Arkady about the plot and probably earning money himself by telling Bjoring. (You were soooo right about Lambert's choice of associates).

Chapter 13.

A round up chapter and a bit of philosophising from Dostoevsky.

How did things turn out: -

Versilov is better now and the 'double' is not there. He is half the man, devoted to Mama and she is now bolder with him.
Katya decides not to marry Bjoring - it would be a big mistake.
The Old Prince dies - he ends by being very close to only Katya.
Anna refuses the money offered by the Old Prince. She and Arkady are friends.
Sadness for Lisa - Sergei dies in hospital and she has a miscarriage.
Arkady has been in correspondence with Katya. He implies he still has hopes there. (Dream on, Arkady!)
Tatyana and Arkady have a great relationship and she is guiding him. She gives him good advice and wants him to go to University and get 3 or 4 years of development.

Arkady sends a copy of his manuscript to his old tutor in Moscow, Nikolai Semyonovich, for comments.

Nikolia says " the fact that you kept the document so long and so persistently is in the highest degree characteristic" (I don't think this is a compliment!)

Dostoevsky (as Nikolai) comments on the state of the Russian family which he feels has been the backbone of Russia but now, 'en masse are going over into accidental families, descending into general disorder and chaos'.

Final comment from Nikolai. "Arkady's words are valuable as a record of troubled times through an adolescent's soul - a not entirely insignificant knowledge, for the generations are made up of adolescents".

Tony a great summary of Chapter 13! I am just a few pages short of finishing.

Arkady at times I really liked and other times I felt he was a bumbling idiot! But that is the teenage life!

Some moments he thinks he has a grasp on things going on around him, but discovering love himself clouds the mind and makes bad choices when speaking with others (his words).

Never really finding out who he is and someone strong to look up to (father) has hindered his other relationships.
What really makes a father? A legal father in name only? Makar was much more of a man to look up to. He chose the wrong one in my point of view!

Some good moments and others not so much on Arkady's choices. The best thing to come out of it all? The diary turns into a book of troubled youth!

Hi Leslie,

Thanks for doing the buddy read with me. I really enjoyed doing it, and I think it made me get into the book in more detail and you highlighted some things that I would otherwise have missed..

I thought Dostoevsky did a really good job writing as 19 year old Arkady, even if it meant he was hotheaded, stupid at times, and frustrating in his decisions and choices. But I was probably like that when I was 19!

Hey Tony
No! Thank you Tony!

I do not think I would have ever tried to read a Dostoevsky without you wanting to do the Buddy Read!

I appreciate you hand holding me through some questions and I truly enjoyed the read with you.

Dosty did do an excellent job portraying a teenager in his feelings of wanting to be his own person but still have those ties to family. Arkady had his moments!

fact: Although Dostoyevsky had a delicate physical constitution, his parents described him as hot-headed, stubborn and cheeky. Hmmm...sounds like Arkady!

Tony, let me know when you want to do another Buddy Read!
I would love to join you again!

Had a great time!

Yes, that would be good Lesle.

I really enjoyed this as well.

i nearly signed up for your Hemingway read but I haven't got much free time this month.

We need to come up with a good buddy read for August!

That is ok! It really only took 3 days to read at about 30 to 40 pages each day. 131 pages all together, but Hemingway did a remarkable job for such a short story!

I am going to read Black Tulip for the next read.

August, I am hosting the Western Theme. The book I am suggesting is True Grit by Charles Portis.

Just let me know when your ready!!

Lesle wrote: "August, I am hosting the Western Theme. The book I am suggesting is True Grit by Charles Portis."

Yes, I'm in for this Lesle. Good choice.

I got the book "The Black Tulip" and am wondering when we start and finish, or what the rules of reading are, for this is my first one to do in a group.

We are reading The Black Tulip as the Historical Fiction book for July, so you can start reading anytime. We do not have a set schedule so the comments should take into consideration other readers and the "spoiler alert" can be used if you feel you may be giving away too much of the plot.

TommyLovesEli,

Here is a link:
https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...