Clean Reads discussion

As I work on the second draft of my second book, I'm thinking again of my responsibilities as a YA author. I really do think I'm doing better than a lot of authors when it comes to how age-appropriate the material is, but that's subjective. Don't get me wrong, I love Game of Thrones, but I wouldn't give it to a 12 year old. When I see something marketed as "Game of Thrones for kids" I groan and say "Aren't you missing the point?"

What I'm wondering now is this: What exactly turns you off of books and how much of that can you tolerate? I realize this has been covered somewhat in other threads, but here I'm talking not about specific books but in the abstract and in general.

I also realize that this is indeed subjective. You all have different standards, ranging from zero tolerance to fairly high. You might consider context, whether in the scene or the work as a whole. You might tolerate more violence or language in a well-written book in which it makes sense and isn't constant or gratuitous. You might have a higher tolerance for violence than sex, or vice versa. All this and more is quite possible.

As an author, a media content provider, I'm just curious to see what you all (a good chunk of my target audience) have to say.

Thanks.

It is definitely subjective and I would probably be more prudish than most but personally I don't like to read about things that I would find inappropriate in real life. I wouldn't want to view bedroom scenes or even lustful behavior. My teenagers are really turned off by foul language. They will put a book down if it has it. (Keep in mind that they do not go to public school so they are not used to filthy language and don't care to be exposed to it in there reading). Personally I do not see why so many authors (especially for youth and Juvenile lit., but adult lit. too. ) feel the need to include filth. I love a good book with quality characters. Keep it G/PG rated.

I love a clean book with great characters that I feel I know. I love dialogue that keeps me entertained, I can tolerate violence if it needs to be part of the story, but I don't think it ever needs to be graphic. I never like language. I have seen books where they say, the character cursed without cursing. I think this works, if you need to paint the picture of what someone is like. I will put down any books with the f bomb or with my Savior's name in vain. No tolerance for sex. I don't even like to hear about long kissing scenes. As was mentioned above, if I wouldn't want to watch it, I don't want to read it. I love romantic tension and love stories. I love historical fiction and even some fantasy novels when they control the violence. I am especially frustrated by the amount of sex and language in teen novels. I realize many authors feel the need to reflect society, but I think they are also contributing to the increase of sex and violence, etc among teens. Thank you for considering your responsibility.

There seems to be a bigger break between PG and PG-13 these days. For example, in PG-13 you're allowed one F-bomb.

I do think that fantasy as a whole is an inherently violent genre, because it focuses on conflicts that don't lend themselves well to peaceful resolution. In Violet Skies for example, the villains are pretty vile. Der'aevis, Arvis and Dibian cannot be negotiated with and their actions place them well past the "Moral Event Horizon". Alex and Brand eventually face up to their sins and pay for them. They are redeemed in the end, but the villains are not.

That said, Brand is a soldier, and soldiers kill. It's just a part of his life. He doesn't enjoy it, but he does his job, and well.

With one exception, being a lapse of judgement caused by a villain, all the violence in the series is either done by the villains or to stop them.

There is foul language, but the text is not littered with it, and it makes sense in context. Taya, the protagonist, never swears but once in the entire series, and considering the circumstances it totally makes sense.

As for sex, it's there, but it's pretty much in the background and back story. There's dancing, touching, kissing, but the only thing at all graphic is in the climax of the second book, and I will probably tone that down in later drafts. (Book 2 is still in early drafts. I hope to publish in September.) For what it's worth, sex is never depicted as being free of consequences, quite the opposite.

Also, you both mention the quality of the characters, and I like to think that's a strong suit. I do think I write good dialogue and each character has a distinct voice. Also that my characters don't do anything stupid or out of character just because I need them to. Some are idiots, but they stay within that as part of their own nature.

I agree with the gap between PG and PG13 which is why personally I have chosen not to watch PG13 movies. In general my children have also chosen to avoid PG13 media. We have just found that the benefits do not outweigh the cost.

Lisha wrote: "I love a clean book with great characters that I feel I know. I love dialogue that keeps me entertained, I can tolerate violence if it needs to be part of the story, but I don't think it ever need..."

I agree completely both for what I read and how I encourage my 6 children to choose their books.

Edward wrote: "There seems to be a bigger break between PG and PG-13 these days. For example, in PG-13 you're allowed one F-bomb.

I do think that fantasy as a whole is an inherently violent genre, because it foc..."

I read your post and thought, "ooh, I'd love to read and review a copy" until you said that there's a sex scene in the climax. Big turnoff for me. So I'm glad to hear you're planning on toning it down. Personally, I think that a sign of a good author is when they create as much or more romantic tension in a single kiss than in a bedroom scene. And if the book plot deals with the consequences, we readers are smart. We can read between the lines and don't need the whole scene spelled out for us. As a new member of this clean reads group, that's my two cents. :) Also, I'm much more picky about sexual content than violence, though I don't appreciate a lot of gore. Killing/fighting is one thing but I don't need to hear about blood and guts.

Agree with Michelle 100%. I think that is why most of us are here in this group. We want the great writing without the explicit content.

With regards to language, I am okay with an occasional curse word but if there is one on every page it will turn me off and most likely I will stop reading. To me there are so many words in the English language to chose from, why focus on a few four letter words. I have heard it argued that only a curse word can really reflect a situation, so and that is why I am OK with one or two...but if it is everywhere in a story?
Sex and Violence I view the same- most good stories will have romance and fighting somewhere but I do not need a play by play of what is going on- most readers have good imaginations and can figure things out on their own without having to be told where his hand was, her mouth was or the detail of every wound in a fight.
A good story should have strong dialogue, characters and a story, having to add in a lot of cursing/language and graphic violence shows a lack of creativity to me.

Well said, Michelle. I agree 100% also.

FWIW, it's not exactly a bedroom scene, and it's certainly not glorified. They don't even get as far as removing clothes, but it's pretty clear what's going on. I'm looking at the descriptions and I'm trying to decide how much to spoil.

I like mine to be PG, but I can handle PG-13. I have a 2 F-bomb rule (that's when I put the book down. I prefer no fbombs at all).I also get REALLY upset if someone is having an affair. I don't care so much if sex is alluded to, but I do NOT need a play by play.

Also, for me, predictability... ugh. I hate it when I read the back of the book and know exactly what's going to happen (like when I saw the commercial for a Walk to Remember and looked around saying, "You know she's going to die, right?" even though I had never read the book or seen the movie).

I can handle SOME violence. I don't know. Pretty much PG-13 is my cap. I've never watched a rated R movie and I've noticed that I remember a lot more about what I read than watch. I've still never seen the Notebook because the book scarred me.

One more thing, and this is kind of strange, but if it's fantasy, I NEED to be able to visualize it. I loved that Harry Potter was in a human world that I could relate to. HATED that Wrinkle in Time was all the different planets with aliens that I had nothing to compare it to. Also, if you're going to talk directions, PLEASE include a map. I need it.

If a book has more than three swear words I'll normally put it down. I don't go for explicit descriptions of sex or rape; I don't mind references to them unless they are glorifying sex outside marriage or associated evil acts. For violence I don't go for excessive descriptions of gore; for a well written book, any violence has to be there for a good/pertinent reason.

I will have a hard to with any book, clean or not, that has poor characterization, plot, etc. For example, I had to put down Prophet by Larson not because it was a dirty novel, but because it was a poorly executed story. You can read my review on it to get more of an idea on what I mean.