SciFi and Fantasy Book Club discussion

I made a deal with my brother that we would trade a book that we each have to read. This came about because he thinks that all the Sci Fi and Fantasy I read is trash, despite having never read any.

He's introduced me to some great works of literature and I would like to do the same for him.

So has anyone got any suggestions for a great book to introduce him to these genres that we are so passionate about?

My first thoughts are The Name of the Wind or The Lies of Locke Lamora.
The Name of the Wind
The Lies of Locke Lamora

Maybe you could tell us what kind of books your brother reads, or which are these great works of literature he has introduced you to, so we can get a feel for what he would appreciate.

Having said that, I would recommend The Ocean at the End of the Lane (light on the fantasy), A Game of Thrones (can´t go wrong with this one), or even though I haven´t read it yet, Tigana (might be suited to your bro´s "literary" tastes).

Let's start with what he likes--you mentioned "Great Works of literature"--what works?

I'm enjoying Name of the Wind so far, so that's good.

Dune might be a good science fiction classic.
Or possibly some classic Robert Heinlein.

heh I'm guessing you don't want to scare him away with the whole discussions on Hobbits at the beginning of LOTR. :D

Uplift: The Complete Original Trilogy. by David Brin by David Brin




soooooo good!

SF, by its nature, features an extremely wide variety of possibilities.
Perhaps some very early stuff, such as Twenty Thousand Leagues Under the Sea or Frankenstein, or stuff from the "Golden Age," such as The Foundation Trilogy or The Left Hand of Darkness.

If he's into classic works of literature, he might enjoy the Chaucer/Keats references in Dan Simmons' Hyperion. (It's also a great story even if you don't know or like Chaucer or Keats).

I'd also suggest The Sparrow by Mary Doria Russell- both The Sparrow and Hyperion seem to be very popular with people who don't 'normally' like SF.

And I'd second the David Brin suggestion, with maybe his novel Earthas an alternate. It's near future SF, and has a lot of 'the world is falling apart and we're keeping our head above water'...the environment and a lot of political systems are in trouble (Switzerland's the bad guy, animals are kept in "Arks" because there's no room for them etc), and a group of Maori-led scientists have to save the world from a black hole that's bouncing around the Earth's core. It's thoughtful, but it's also a very entertaining read.

There are some great suggestions here, especially the more political Science Fiction. Brin is also a very strong option.

If he likes logic problems, or is a concrete thinker, I'd suggest Asimov's I, Robot or Foundation so that he can be solving thinking problems every character or so.

As for Heinlein, Stranger in a Strange Land or Starship Troopers might do. Tell him no movie of the novel was ever made of Troopers, so that might help.

Also, Ender's Game tends to get a lot of people into Science Fiction. In Ft. Benning I saw it in the hands of nearly every officer cadet because it was required reading to enter the OC at the time.

It would help if you would tell us what sort of great works of literature he likes.

I would recommend something very different to someone who liked Pride and Prejudice instead of someone who liked The Three Musketeers

Thanks for the suggestions.
Both Hyperion and Dune would be an excellent choices I think.
Enders Game would be great but i'm worried the poor movie adaptation would put him off from the start.
LotR i'm not so sure about because I want to show that fantasy is more than Elves and Orcs.
I'm sure he would enjoy GoT but I think that is a little too epic.
Foundation could be another good one but I think he would prefer something with slightly more immersive characters.
Heinlein might be a bit too militaristic although I've only read Starship Troopers.

Examples of books he's given me in the past:
Haruki Murakami - The Wind-Up Bird Chronicle
Milan Kundera - The Unbearable Lightness of Being
Jonathan Franzen - The Corrections
Jonathan Safran Foer - Everything Is Illuminated

Paolo wrote: "the fantasy)...A Game of Thrones (can´t go wrong with this one)..."

Uh...yes you can. You can go completely wrong with this one. I read the first three books and grew to hate it more and more and more as it went on. This isn't the place to dissect it, but it was . . . infuriating. I wouldn't even watch the TV show.

Regardless...

I can't even recommend books to my closest friends, most of whom read SFF a lot, let alone give guidance to the brothers of total strangers.

That being said, Kurt Vonnegut (Slaughterhouse Five or Cat's Cradle) is often described as a soft entry into SF. But it has to be a reader who can decipher wry humor and social commentary hidden behind disarmingly simplistic prose.

Cloud Atlas and The Handmaid's Tale are always mentioned in these conversations, too, though I've never read either of them.

I'd be tempted to throw some hardcore Philip K Dick his way just to watch his head explode. ];P

If you want to start with Vonnegut I'd suggest The Sirens of Titan. I liked that better than Cat's Cradle myself.

by Kurt Vonnegut

MK wrote: "Uplift: The Complete Original Trilogy. by David Brin by David Brin




soooooo good!"I recently re-read this. I'm on the second trilogy now. I loved that cover art so much I bought the omnibus even though it's a UK edition and I'm not in the UK.

I'd say Game of Thrones is the typical go-to winner, unless the person in question is already well-read. In that case, there are a bunch of really good choices to showcase why SF/F isn't all dross.

Cloud Atlas is fantastic. So is number9dream, and Ghostwritten. Mitchell is a strong voice in the genre and under-read.

Everything is Illuminated is also good, and I think a fan of Foer might enjoy Mitchell too.

Or A Clockwork Orange

I agree with Paolo A Game of Thrones would be great!

Marc wrote: "Examples of books he's given me in the past:
Haruki Murakami - The Wind-Up Bird Chronicle
Milan Kundera - The Unbearable Lightness of Being
Jonathan Franzen - The Corrections
Jonathan Safran Foer - Everything Is Illuminated"

In that case, I'd recommend:

Michael Chabon - The Yiddish Policemen's Union
Susanna Clarke - Jonathan Strange & Mr Norrell (Since he seems to have a fondness for erudite doorstoppers.)
Samuel R. Delany - Stars in My Pocket Like Grains of Sand, Nova, Dhalgren
Karen Joy Fowler - Sarah Canary
Ursula K. Le Guin - The Dispossessed (And most of her other books, as well--Le Guin's just fantastic--but imo this is the one your brother should start with.)
Haruki Murakami - 1Q84 (Obvious suggestion is obvious.)

And I'll second the recommendation for The Sparrow.

Marc wrote: "I made a deal with my brother [...] he thinks that all the Sci Fi and Fantasy I read is trash, despite having never read any...."

Hey! Interesting discussion - I only just discovered it!
Nice collection of suggestions above, I don't think I have anything to add - but I thought about your problem. It seems to me that your brother might be after some deeper examinations of the human condition, but be unwilling to look for deeper meanings hidden behind spaceships or elves and dragons. So although I don't have anything new to suggest at the moment, I would like to second The Sparrow by Mary Doria Russell (see message 6). I might go further if I knew more about your brother's tastes.

Good SF entails the same essentials as any other fiction genre: Good characters and a good story.
SF writers, unlike most other genres, have the luxury to ask "what if . . .?" in an almost infinite number of ways.

Doc wrote: "Good SF entails the same essentials as any other fiction genre [...].
SF writers, unlike most other genres, have the luxury to ask "what if . . .?" in an almost infinite number of ways. ..."

Agreed - but I support Lionel to this extent: That some people react so strongly against the perceived image of SF (Space Opera etc!) that they need to be introduced very gently. The Sparrow is quite a good choice. Lucifer's Hammer might also be worth a look - and if I am allowed to look so far back in history, how about Earth Abides by George R Stewart?
Come to think, The Crystal Cave would also be a good bridge, though it leads into the Fantasy end of the spectrum rather than hardcore SF

Alan wrote: "Doc wrote: "Good SF entails the same essentials as any other fiction genre [...].
SF writers, unlike most other genres, have the luxury to ask "what if . . .?" in an almost infinite number of ways...."

Good points. Lots of preconceived notions of what sci-fi is, mainly from movies or TV.

With respect to some of the above commentators, if your brother likes literary fiction and you're not just looking to show that SFF can be fun but specifically that it needn't be 'trash', I don't think the easy-reading popular, likeable book route is the way to go.

Instead, I'd suggest books that have strong literary qualities.

Some things that spring to mind:
A Canticle for Leibowitz - you may not like it, you could even argue whether it's well-written or not (it is), but you certainly can't call it trash. Sustained consideration of religion, faith, life and death, meaning, and morality, with lots of quotations in Latin and references to mediaeval philosophers. This might be my go-to for the 'SFF is all for kids' crowd.

The Brides of Rollrock Island - at the other end stylistically, not so much thought but a lot of feeling. Again, there are reasons to dislike it, but it's an indisputably literary book, with gorgeous prose, little action, and a lot of emotions in a small coastal town. With witches and selkies.

The Sirens of Titan - more sophisticated than either of the above, marries profound ruminations on life to an exuberantly wild structure that displays a lot of the freedom inherent in the genre.

And of course One Hundred Years of Solitude, which is fantasy even though it's unfashionable to call it so.

I'd also suggest maybe books by Delany (probably not Dhalgren though - too long and too ostentatious for someone who's looking for a chance to condemn), Le Guin, and Wolfe (probably not the Book of the New Sun, though, probably a standalone)... but I don't know their works well enough to say which one to pick.

Of course, I think there's also a great literary merit to authors like Tolkien and Asimov... but it's not the sort of merit that will easily hit someone on the head if they go in looking to confirm a prejudice. Whereas I think the books suggested above demonstrate that the genre is broader than most people think it is, and that it includes some 'literary' areas.

If he likes style, try the works of Patricia A. McKillip. The Bell at Sealey Head or The Book of Atrix Wolfe or Winter Rose

It is hard to recommend a book or story to a person I don't know. It will depend heavily on your brother. You make him sound more snobbish, a person who reads to show you that he is smarter than you not so much for enjoyment. If that is the case you should give him Brave New World.

If he is not like that and is really looking for a great story then The Name of the Wind is the one I would suggest. It is one of the best examples of story telling. The Lies of Locke Lamora is another great story but a hair short of Rothfuss in my opinion.