Never too Late to Read Classics discussion

The Group Read for July is a Theme Read: Historical Fiction
The Classic is your choice, the thread is open for discussion.
Please let us know what your reading and Author.
Describe the History part of your Classic and thoughts you have while reading.

Historical fiction is a literary genre in which the plot takes place in a setting located in the past. Historical fiction is set in the past and pays attention to the manners, social conditions and other details of the period depicted.

Moderator Emiliy has chosen The Black Tulip by Alexandre Dumas, if you like please join in with her! See message 5 for more details!!!

To qualify as historical fiction the work should be set at least 50 years prior to the author writing it. Is that correct?

The Black Tulip by Alexander Dumas

Yes. Blueberry, it would need to qualify under the Groups terms of a Classic Novel 50 years. So any novel written or published in 1967 or before.

Host and Moderator Emiliy has chosen The Black Tulip by Alexandre Dumas for her Discussion Lead.

The Black Tulip is a historical novel written 1850 in French.
The story begins with a historical event — the 1672 lynching of the Dutch Grand Pensionary Johan de Witt and his brother Cornelis, by a wild mob of their own countrymen — considered by many as one of the most painful episode in Dutch history, described by Dumas with a dramatic intensity.

The city of Haarlem, Netherlands, has set a prize of ƒ100,000 to the person who can grow a black tulip, sparking competition between the country's best gardeners to win the money, honour and fame. Only the city's oldest citizens remember the Tulip Mania thirty years prior, and the citizens throw themselves into the competition. The young and bourgeois Cornelius van Baerle has almost succeeded but is suddenly thrown into the Loevestein prison. There he meets the prison guard's beautiful daughter Rosa, who will be his comfort and help, and eventually become his rescuer.

The novel was originally published in three volumes in 1850 as La Tulipe Noire by Baudry (Paris).

Quote: "Sometimes one's sufferings have been so great that one need never say, 'I am too happy." Engraved on the cell wall of Hugo Grotius at Loevestein and subsequently above the door of Cornelius Van Baerle.

I'll be reading Picnic at Hanging Rock by Joan Lindsay. This book was written in 1967 recounting an event in 1900 when three boarding school girls disappear during a picnic. A 1975 movie was made based on this book.

I will be reading Ben Hur by Lew Wallace. I have seen the movie many times but am finally getting around to reading the book.

Well, I really likes this book, many people think it's children book but I think we need to see it more than just children book, it's talk about envy, sorrow, love and freedom. Which people we have in our world.
And because of that reasons I choose to lead the reading with this wonderful book and hope you will join with me to a great journey into the book!

Of course you can to read other classic books this time but if you will decide to be part of that, it will be very nice.

Lesle wrote: "Yes. Blueberry, it would need to qualify under the Groups terms of a Classic Novel 50 years. So any novel written or published in 1967 or before."

No, I'm not questioning the "what is a classic" question. I'm asking to clarify "what is historical fiction". ie. if I am the wife of a soldier in the civil war and I write a novel of the civil wars...that's not historical fiction I believe. But if I am that same civil war wife and I write a novel about Columbus discovering America...that is historical fiction because it is set 50 or more years before my time. Or am I analysing the theme. haha

Blueberry, you are correct. If you are living during World War 2 and writing a novel about World War 2, it is fiction. If it is about World War 1 or earlier periods, it is historical fiction.
Technically, Suite Française is therefore not historical fiction, since the action takes place when the author wrote it(during World War 2).
Thanks for asking that question,Blueberry.

Blueberry, Here is what I stated in Msg 1:

Historical fiction is a literary genre in which the plot takes place in a setting located in the past. Historical fiction is set in the past and pays attention to the manners, social conditions and other details of the period depicted.

Normally, from what I understood from Bradette Michel (Member of the Group: who wrote the Historical Novel For Their Own Good) it normally is about a Historic event (an exact time period and place) accurate to the events and surrounding social details but the characters are usually fiction (except when the event is a historic person).

The Authors of such books put alot of research in being historical accurate and the fictional characters interact with the historical details. It is a true based story, but characters who are in the novel are products of the Author's imagination.

Hope this helps Blueberry.

Emiliy200 wrote: "The Black Tulip by Alexander Dumas"

Ooh, sounds good!

Kathy wrote: "I'll be reading Picnic at Hanging Rock by Joan Lindsay. This book was written in 1967 recounting an event in 1900 when three boarding school girls disappear during a..."

This sounds good too.

Rosemarie wrote: "Blueberry, you are correct. If you are living during World War 2 and writing a novel about World War 2, it is fiction. If it is about World War 1 or earlier periods, it is historical fiction.
Techn..."

That's exactly what I was trying to ask. Haha.
Thanks

Doing a bit of research, Picnic at Hanging Rock is not based on an actual event. The author, Joan Lindsay, created an entirely fictional story.

A quote from Wikipedia: "Picnic at Hanging Rock is written in the form of a true story, and even begins and ends with a pseudohistorical prologue and epilogue, reinforcing the mystery that has generated significant critical and public interest since its publication in 1967.[5][11] However, while the geological feature, Hanging Rock, and the several towns mentioned are actual places near Mount Macedon, the story itself is entirely fictitious.[12][13] Lindsay had done little to dispel the myth that the story is based on truth, in many interviews either refusing to confirm it was entirely fiction,[14] or hinting that parts of the book were fictitious, and others were not. For instance, Valentine's Day, 14 February 1900 was a Wednesday, not a Saturday as depicted in the story.[15]"

Interesting! I've barely gotten three pages into the book. Too tired last night and busy today.

Kathy, I have read The Picnic at Hanging Rock and saw the movie a long time before I read the book. The book was interesting and had the feel of a true story--the movie even more so. The movie was luminous-the photography was amazing.

Emiliy200 wrote: "The Black Tulip by Alexander Dumas"

Emiliy I am in as soon as I finish The Old Man and the Sea! Probably just a few days!

I saw the movie too and enjoyed it. I see that there is a television series which is airing in Australia in 2017. How can they make a series out of the book, I wonder...

Kathy wrote: "Doing a bit of research, Picnic at Hanging Rock is not based on an actual event. The author, Joan Lindsay, created an entirely fictional story.

A quote from Wikipedia: "Picnic at Ha..."
This is interesting, I am a fan of the director of the movie, Peter Weir, and always thought it was based on a true event, and remember describing it as such. Effective strategy by the author to add an air of mystery to the story's existing air of mystery.

Brian,
I though it was based on a true event also when I saw the movie. In the Goodread summary it says readers must decide for themselves whether it is fact or fiction. !!

I watched the film with my daughter at a second- run movie theatre years ago, and we both got the impression that it was a true story. Very effective and frustrating film-making, since it had an open ending.

Is anyone reading the The Black Tulip by Alexandre Dumas?

I probably will start reading it tomorrow.

I just got a copy from the library but will be starting after I read Picnic at Hanging Rock.

Oh that sounds great! Thank you for joining in Kathy!

I have not read it before and have had it on my TBR pile forever, it unfortunately keeps getting shuffled down!

Lesle wrote: "Oh that sounds great! Thank you for joining in Kathy!

I have not read it before and have had it on my TBR pile forever, it unfortunately keeps getting shuffled down!"

I hope you will enjoy it! told us what you thought after you finish to read.

Kathy wrote: "I just got a copy from the library but will be starting after I read Picnic at Hanging Rock."

Thank you! Enjoy both of them!

Kathy
I tried to find Picnic at Hanging Rock yesterday.

Not at our Main Library or the Branches. Movie yes, book no.
Could not find a free version of an ebook either. Everyone wants like $11.99. Gutenberg did not even have it.

Very disappointed.

If it makes you feel any better, Lesle, the movie is better than the book.

Thanks Rosemarie!

I decided to move on to another novella until everyone was ready to read Black Tulip.

Lesle wrote: "Kathy
I tried to find Picnic at Hanging Rock yesterday.

Not at our Main Library or the Branches. Movie yes, book no.
Could not find a free version of an ebook either. Everyone wants ..."

That's too bad, Lesle. The copy I have was published in 2014 so it's probably around somewhere.

It doesn't actually feel like historical fiction anyway, since now I know it's not based on fact. I'll continue anyway.

I thought you had mentioned that before, that it reads like it is fact based. It seemed really interesting was hoping to find it.

That's ok! I will read your comments!

I just found a free copy of La Tulipe Noir on ibooks, so Ben Hur can wait until after I finish The Black Tulip. The book sounds intriguing.

Oh wonderful Rosemarie! I totally agree. Not like a normal Dumas read, I think!

Rosemarie wrote: "I just found a free copy of La Tulipe Noir on ibooks, so Ben Hur can wait until after I finish The Black Tulip. The book sounds intriguing."

It's on Gutenberg also.

That is good to know.

I've finished Picnic at Hanging Rock by Joan Lindsay and can say I really enjoyed it. The historical part of the book includes the time period of 1900 in the setting of the Australian bush. I found that it's really more of a mystery. Fine writing. Suspenseful--plenty of "what's going on here??" The characters are very memorable.

On to The Black Tulip for another classic historical fiction!

"The Black Tulip" was not at Lakewood, Ohio public library so I went to Mentor, Ohio and found it.

Wonderful! I hope you like it! I have not read this one either. Looked into but that is it.

Lesle,

"Fathers and Sons" that I am now reading has in the beginning referenced "Eugene Onegin" which I just read. That is cool.

I still say if you like Dostovesky, you need to read "The Idiot" next.

Sincerely,
TommyLovesEli

Thanks for the suggestion. I have several books lined up this month and next.

I would like to read another of his to get a better perspective of the type of writer he is. I will add it to my list though.

Appreciate it TommyLovesEli!

TommyLovesEli wrote: "Lesle,

"Fathers and Sons" that I am now reading has in the beginning referenced "Eugene Onegin" which I just read. That is cool.

I still say if you like Dostovesky, you need to read "The Idiot" n..."

This group did a group read of "The Idiot" in September of 2016 so many of us did read it. Crime and Punishment was also a group read in 2016 and Brothers Karamazov was a group read a few months ago. Now with The Adolescent as a buddy read, its obvious this group likes Fyodor Dostoyevsky.

Tommy, I am glad that you are reading again. Dostoevsky is my favourite Russian author; The Idiot and The Brothers Karamazov my two favourite books.

For those that are starting to read the Historical Classic The Black Tulip by Alexandre Dumas

♥"I hope you enjoy that first sentence!" ♥

Hello Brian!

We, as a Group, do seem to enjoy Dostoevsky.
With a variety of short, medium and long novels ranging in over 30,
I think we still have quite a few to enjoy still!

I read 75 pages of "Fathers and Sons" by Ivan Turgenev last night.

Guess I began the wrong book. How many pages should I read to catch up?

Lesle wrote: "Hello Brian!

We, as a Group, do seem to enjoy Dostoevsky.
With a variety of short, medium and long novels ranging in over 30,
I think we still have quite a few to enjoy still!"

Lesle, did you finish to read The Lost Boy by Tomas Wolf?

TommyLovesEli wrote: "I read 75 pages of "Fathers and Sons" by Ivan Turgenev last night.

Guess I began the wrong book. How many pages should I read to catch up?"

It's very philosophic book, if you don't like that genre I guess you won't enjoy the reading even if you continue.

I've read the first seven chapters of The Black Tulip. I had no idea what this was about although I should have since "tulip" is in the title! Literally--tulips! So far anyway.

The history about William of Orange, the United Provinces, and the politics in the Hague are enlightening and intriguing.

Lesle, as you said, enjoy that first sentence. It says so much.

After chapter 4, the story changes to Cornelius van Baerle and his envious neighbor and tulips.

The writing style has humor, sometimes black humor. Chapter 5 begins with (view spoiler)[ "While the townsfolk of the Hague were dismembering the bodies of Johan and Cornelius... (hide spoiler)] I laughed.

I was wondering how far behind I am in "The Black Tulip" and Kathy seems to suggest I need to read seven chapters or more to catch up with her.

Emily says, "It's very philosophic book..."

Which one, "Fathers and Sons" that I read last night or "The Black Tulip" (which I should have read last night instead)?

I don't mind philosophy because I read Dr. B. F. Skinners' scientific books, but then also read "Walden Two" by him which was a different philosophy than "Walden" by Henry David Thoreau, I had read long before.

I think Walden One makes a better philosophy than Walden Two, but then Dr. B. F. Skinners science is spot on, in my book.

Philosophically, I think like a Christian Radical Behaviorist. Sort of a crazy mix really.

All we do is emanating from the environment...

But you still pay for your own sin...

Sort of opposite to all other people's way of thinking, but absolutely true, in my opinion.

Sounds like "The Black Tulip" is sort of "Keeping up Appearances" the British T.V. show where they are envious of the other's gardening skills.

Least from these comments.