Our Shared Shelf discussion
JUL/AUG (2017) - The Beauty Myth
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How to Beat the Myth
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I think it's very hard to find a balance between the myth and the authenticity. As a young woman, I find it very annoying when I put a nice dress on and anyone starts looking at me like I really need a flirt, or if I go for an aperitif with an older friend of mine and others think we are together (maybe for money? who knows what they think). Nonetheless, it's a vicious circle in which sometimes I find myself, for instance if I see a girl with a transparent shirt: I judge her unconsciously to be part of a system in which the woman may look less "serious" if she dresses up like that. My point is that even though we try to free ourselves from this beauty myth, nonetheless we are already sharing that state of mind.I hope my opinion is useful. :)
Image is all these days even more than when the Myth was written. How to deal with it well day to day when we wake and dress take a minute assess your mood. Perhaps break the conditioning if you are a dress down woman maybe go girly for a day and vice Versa.The secret is to recognize the effect and address it or not. not every day has to be a battle :)
Francesca wrote: "I think it's very hard to find a balance between the myth and the authenticity. As a young woman, I find it very annoying when I put a nice dress on and anyone starts looking at me like I really ne..."All very good points! I know I'm guilty of judging girls who choose to dress in a more revealing manor - though I'm not sure if that is pure judgement or jealousy.
It's interesting - I feel feminine wearing a dress. I love dresses and skirts and cute flats, etc. But how much of it is my nature, and how much of that is generations of conditioning to like these things?
Having said that, there are plenty of men who like pretty clothes too - without my social conditioning.
Ross wrote: "Image is all these days even more than when the Myth was written. How to deal with it well day to day when we wake and dress take a minute assess your mood. Perhaps break the conditioning if you ar..."That's a really good point :) I suppose it's mostly about managing your own outlook (especially for a lot of us girls it comes down to our judgement of other girls). This is why so many girls say that they prefer male friends and why so many friends groups are "toxic."
Importantly of course, when given the opportunity we must try and inform children to reduce the social conditioning from the beginning.
Keith wrote: "Erin wrote: "What can we do, day to day to help protect not only ourselves but even men against the myth? "I think the fact that you already recognise the effect it has on you, that you are aware..."
I think it's families that carry on the tradition of this social conditioning because children aren't usually exposed to media until a little later. Though if the family doesn't get in first, society will do the job without them.
I think female family members are the main offenders out of pure good will. I can't count I've heard "have you got a man yet?" and "you better hurry before the good ones are taken," or my personal favourite "your young skin won't last forever you know - don't take your time."
Each and every time that has been from grandparents - female ones. I think women grow up their entire lives in competition and feel the need to try and prepare and push their loved ones through the competition.
This definitely impacted me. I'm 23 years old and have been striving for male attention since I was 10 or so. My mum is a feminist and even read this book while pregnant with me, she tried to separate me from the myth - but still I felt the need to be validated with male attention without even realising it.
In my experience at least, men haven't cared as much if their daughter isn't a parent yet - it's women that fear that their daughters, nieces and grand daughters will lose 'the game.'
Well,call me weird or call me different,but i have never put makeup that would conceal my real skin,I can wear almost anything out of the wardrobe,I never care much about whether what I am wearing might attract guys towards me.So,all this said and done,I guess no matter what we are groomed upto be,it is at last our choice whether we wish to stay that way.Truth be told,even my mom never fails to point out at every bend of a road to me,that i must lose weight,i must do something about my frizzy hair,i must do something about my fashion sense etc etc.But at the end of the day,if I am still sitting in my pyjamas with my hair up in a messy knot,that's when I know that I am just my own person and no matter what role I am given tomorrow,i'll always find my way back to this pyjama girl and I am pretty proud to be not-so-beautiful if being beautiful means giving up on my comfort and my own personality.Because real beauty can neither be concealed by makeup nor can it be dressed by good clothes,for it shines from within.However,obviously we must dress up in a way thats appropriate for playing different roles in everyday life,we mustn't lose ourself to vanity.
:)
Emma wrote: "I've experienced a familiar phenomenon. I'm 20, and every time I interact with older female relatives, the questions about my lack of a boyfriend abound. It's rarely my male relatives that care as ..."You will never get a husband that way, Emma ;)
I know I have let myself fall victim to the Beauty Myth. When I was in junior high and high school I judged myself and compared myself with the other girls at school and the women I saw all the time on TV. I knew even then that I didn't have realistic expectations on myself, but that didn't stop me. Now I think I have more realistic expectations of myself and I try not to compare myself or care what others think. Unfortunately society has been shouting what beauty looks like for so long that it has been engrained. In order to overcome the Beauty Myth, I try not to look at the countless magazines trying to tell me I need to do this or try that in order to make myself 'better.' We need to not compliment each other on appearance so much, and instead compliment a trait. That way we don't feel like our self worth comes from our appearance.
So much of it comes down to how we as individuals treat other individuals, in all of our spheres, whether at home, the workplace, place of worship, schools, etc. We need to not speak to girls and women in terms of "beauty" all the time and instead focus on the things that make us equal. But I also think it's important not to be afraid of beauty and attraction, either. I have had so many fun times with other girls and ladies having spa parties, makeovers, clothes shopping sprees, even overnighters with nail polish, most of which were rarely about attraction to males, but rather just for fun, for ourselves, to enjoy the beauty in one another and in friendship. I don't think avoiding the Myth by refusing to wear makeup or shaving is the answer.... but don't let it take over your identity. If it's something that makes you feel good about yourself FOR YOU, then by all means, do it! If not, don't do it! And for heaven's sake, DON'T put your opinions about beauty onto another woman, but let her choose what makes her feel good about herself, physically or otherwise.In other words, common respect for one another.
the books permits the reader to realize some important new thingsbut i think the human nature can't be beaten, some people tried to make a new Human like some ideologists did before, for living in an ideal shall be painful
the writer is very self confident and she has to in order to write the book, but we have to use our own arbitrary for not to fall into another extreme
Mod
Hey you, I am Emma and I'm relatively new here :)
I think beauty is one part of the beauty myth, but what about a situation where we don't wear make-up, aren't dressed up and are still judged by our appearence?
I was just out playing basketball at my university in Germany. (We were 15 men and two women.) We formed groups and played against each other. I didn't now any of my teammates until today so they have never seen me play before. I consider myself as good as the rest of the group but during the game there was only one (!) team member that passed the ball to me. The others completely ignored me until I shot a basket. This happens everytime I meet new basketballers - often they assume that they need to explain me things. I am not ugly, but I don't were makeup and I also don't dress provocatively (definitely not when playing basketball!).
I believe that they see a woman and assume that I don't know how to play basketball. This prejudice exists and I cannot do anything about it. But what good ways are there to deal with them?
My ideas:
- Work super-hard and show everyone that you are as good (or even better) then they are.
- Tell them directly that you have the same experience and don't need them to explain everything for you. You can do this aggressively and let them know that you think they are wrong. Or you can say that you "just don't like it when someone lectures all the time". (In my opinion this isn't a good reaction, because then they won't recognize the problem.)
- Ignore it, tell yourself that it just happens and you can't really do anything about it. Use your opportunities but if there aren't any then don't get mad about it.
That's everything I was able to think of. Unfortunately none of those ideas make me really happy. - Do you have some more?
(Obviously I don't want to talk only about playing basketball but about all similar experiences, for example in male dominated fields.
I am sorry this post became so long, but this has really stressed me out for some time now, so I had to write it all.)
I think beauty is one part of the beauty myth, but what about a situation where we don't wear make-up, aren't dressed up and are still judged by our appearence?
I was just out playing basketball at my university in Germany. (We were 15 men and two women.) We formed groups and played against each other. I didn't now any of my teammates until today so they have never seen me play before. I consider myself as good as the rest of the group but during the game there was only one (!) team member that passed the ball to me. The others completely ignored me until I shot a basket. This happens everytime I meet new basketballers - often they assume that they need to explain me things. I am not ugly, but I don't were makeup and I also don't dress provocatively (definitely not when playing basketball!).
I believe that they see a woman and assume that I don't know how to play basketball. This prejudice exists and I cannot do anything about it. But what good ways are there to deal with them?
My ideas:
- Work super-hard and show everyone that you are as good (or even better) then they are.
- Tell them directly that you have the same experience and don't need them to explain everything for you. You can do this aggressively and let them know that you think they are wrong. Or you can say that you "just don't like it when someone lectures all the time". (In my opinion this isn't a good reaction, because then they won't recognize the problem.)
- Ignore it, tell yourself that it just happens and you can't really do anything about it. Use your opportunities but if there aren't any then don't get mad about it.
That's everything I was able to think of. Unfortunately none of those ideas make me really happy. - Do you have some more?
(Obviously I don't want to talk only about playing basketball but about all similar experiences, for example in male dominated fields.
I am sorry this post became so long, but this has really stressed me out for some time now, so I had to write it all.)
I sometimes feel like that. I NEVER wear dresses and I am not very popular. But it doesn't matter what other people think of you if you are doing the right thing or if you like yourself.
Hey Emma and Lauren,I too have perceptions like you guys.I like comfortable clothing and so most of my life I have worn things that are comfortable before being pretty.And I think,living in a country where wearing crop tops and bum shots is a popular fashion due to the constant "aping for the west" attitude,people do tend to judge a person who'd prefer jeans and a simple T.
But I think it matters to me in the least.I couldn't care less about what people would think or derive or perceive from my simple clothing.And as far as I can say,it is only a matter of accepting yourself,the way you feel most beautiful,not society.Because after all,these are things that come down to our own perception and understanding of things.If we feel that extraneously branded clothing is beautiful and wearing it day after day would increase popularity,we should go ahead with it,only because that would be our perception of beauty which shouldn't be moulded by what others might have to say.But also,one mustn't lose ones personality under the mask of expensive clothing.
As far as I perceive it,I'd say I am lucky not to have been born a princess,because I cannot help but imagine the pressure of being dressed up like an uncomfortable doll for a lifetime.So I use my freedom to dress up in pyjamas well.LoL.
I could line my statement up with a recent experience.As many of you know,I have started going to college and 2 days before I started,I went for an eye check-up.The doctor naturally assumed that I'd wish to wear lenses everyday for going to college and nearly handed me a pack full of them.To his surprise,I told him that I wasn't going to wear them, because genuinely unbiased people would like me completely for who I am,not the person i could be.And these are the only people I am willing to have in my life.
Several people brought up the next generation...how we raise our children. I am trying very hard to raise two sons as feminists. But the culture influences them daily. At school, the other children police what they can wear ("pink is for girls," "boys can't wear nail polish," etc.). At most stores the toys are still divided into a "girl" aisle and a "boy" aisle. My kids like to play with both, and their friends who are girls do, too, so we have to browse both aisles and discuss how far they are comfortable going without being bullied. Television, magazines, even billboards on the road reinforce what society says women should look like. My eldest son is already worried about being too fat or too thin (he's turning 10 years old soon). I cannot avoid it all, and I am not sure how much of my talking about it gets through to them, but I am trying.
One thing I hope we can do is make friends with other women, no matter their appearance. As for myself, I am considered too thin. In high school I was a bookworm and scorned as an ugly stick. Now, still thin, I'm a threat to other women?! The only time I've had men really hit on me was while I was breast feeding! Yet somehow I struggle to make female friends these days seemingly because I am sized up at first glance and frowned at. I don't wear makeup, I weight train due to chronic pain (invisible illness - arthritis), and I'm still a huge bookworm. I want people to talk to who accept me as I am. Why is this so hard in our society?
the book shows the failures of an extremeon the other side there are places where people don't consider the look as important and it can be quite boring
the problem with this kind of problem is that we can't find the balance with two extremes and one dictatorship could be replaced as soon later by another one
I think it's doing things because you authentically want to after questioning them; for example, I really enjoy make-up, but I don't really enjoy shaving. Being hairy only bothers me because it bothers other people. It is then that a real feminist should be courageous enough to do what she actually wants to and affront the stupid critiques.
Stella wrote: "One thing I hope we can do is make friends with other women, no matter their appearance. As for myself, I am considered too thin. In high school I was a bookworm and scorned as an ugly stick. Now, ..."I have also had a hard time making friends. I am a bookworm too, and also have arthritis. I had hoped that one of my neighbours could have been a friend, but I have been rebuffed.
I pay little attention to my appearance, rarely looking in mirrors...
I don't know why it's so hard to make friends...
I'm glad this topic was started! As far as makeup goes, I've fallen in and out of phases of wearing it every day to not wearing any for months on end. And it's true, I feel that when I wear make up I am doing it so that other women will either a.) like me and befriend me or b.) fear me because when I put on my makeup, that is my mask, my "bitch face. it's like my protective layer so that I avoid the hurt or rejection. And I hate that I'm psychologically conditioned to need makeup in these ways.
I really think that the whole point is doing what makes you feel good without being pushed from the outside. For example, I love make-up, I enjoy experimenting with it and I don't see it like a mask, I learned a long time ago that is useless for hiding flaws, most of the times you end up accentuating them instead. What I really don't like are dresses and high heels, I feel uncomfortable wearing skirts and I am totally useless walking on heels (I almost broke my ankle when I tried them for a night out). This really bothered me, I thought that my boyfriend would be embarrassed if I turned out at his family's dinner dressed like a man, I felt like I wasn't worth to be called a woman because I couldn't wear fancy heels! Now it makes me laugh, and I call myself silly, but I was really tormenting myself at the time. So I told my boyfriend about it, and he told me that he couldn't care less about my dress and shoes, if I was comfortable and I felt elegant, he would have loved it. And he really does! Long story short: at my wedding day I was wearing a dark two pieces suit, and I looked so good and confident in it. Be proud of who you are and what you like, don't be afraid to stand out.
Beautiful quote Keith.Thanks for sharing. :)
Keith wrote: "..."If all girls were taught how to love each other fiercely instead of how to compete with each other and hate their own bodies, what a different and beautiful world we would live in"- Nikita Gill"
Love this! I dream of such a world. Thank you.
Emma wrote: "That would be a beautiful world - hopefully one day!"seems to me there are a lot of those women on OSS :)
I have now read through all this discussion, and it seems to me that what we can do most is just never to judge other women because of their clothes, looks, choice of partner, etc. It can be difficult, but I think that if we just think about everytime we have that thought about another woman, "She should not..." If everytime we have that thought, we catch ourselves and think about it, I think we can teach ourselves to be less judgemental towards others, which I think would help beat the beauty myth.
Also, I talked about this with one of my very clever friends, and she said that we should stop telling little girls we meet how pretty they are. I always tell girls how pretty they are, because I don't want them to feel bad about their bodies and looks, but maybe that's counterproductive. My friend suggested we say stuff like "You look very healthy/happy" and compliment them on brains and personality instead.
Felicia wrote: "Also, I talked about this with one of my very clever friends, and she said that we should stop telling little girls we meet how pretty they are. I always tell girls how pretty they are, because I d..."I agree with you and your friend on this point :)
If we could value happiness and health over beauty and let little girls know that ideas are far more important than looks, it would be a huge step forward, in my opinion.
This is such an interesting thread - thank you for starting it!It struck me when reading the book that I am not immune to this stuff by any stretch of the imagination. I wear very typically feminine clothes, make up, wear heels etc, and it struck me that these things can both work in my favour and against me i.e
a) I waste time and money on this stuff
BUT
b) I've been told more than once that I 'come across well' - most recently when I received a job offer after an interview.
I wonder how much of this is down to choices like my clothes, hair, make-up and looking professionally 'feminine'. Research has shown that women who wear make up are more successful at work (http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry...)
I feel like life is easier if you fit neatly into gender roles, but this is still a restriction - women shouldn't have to spend time and money on beauty to be successful.
Zadie Smith made headlines recently for saying she is limiting her daughter's 'beauty' time to 15 mins (bearing in mind the girl is 7 years old). I am a fan of this kind of solution because I think the only way we will eventually over come the myth is to filter it out through generations. If I have a daughter I will focus on telling her she is clever, kind, sporty, strong or basically anything other than 'pretty' and I will try to teach her to value other things before her appearance.
As for the here and now I am limiting my own time spent on make up to a 5 min routine for work and keeping it as minimal as possible. I am also trying to call myself out when I internally judge other people.
Ellen wrote: "I am also trying to call myself out when I internally judge other people. "I think this is really the key to "beating" the myth. Not so much judging ourselves for what we are wearing (if you like makeup and high heels, by all means, indulge! There's nothing wrong with them if you like them and wear them to please yourself!) but rather to make sure we are not inwardly, and especially not outwardly, judging others for their appearance choices. That's the biggest problem of the whole myth, I think.
Here's how I relate to this book, personally. I grew up feeling "invisible" because I thought I was not as pretty as other girls. I stood in the mirror frustrated that I look this way many times. I started realizing that I don't have to do what society says girls have to do, like wearing high heals, dresses, shaving, wearing bras, wearing makeup... etc. I have done a lot of thinking about these fashion and hygiene choices that we are "supposed" to do. I have gone through periods where I chose not to do any of them, wear more "masculine" clothes when I want. I have come to the realization that I can choose to wear dresses and makeup if and when I darn well please, and I don't wear that stuff when I darn well don't! I have decided that whatever anyone else thinks about my looks is their own business, and that if I suffer consequences in my profession for not looking a certain way, then that's just an opportunity for me to align myself with my authenticity and make some changes that allow life to bring me down a more accepting path.As far as judging other women, I (imperfectly) do not judge. When I find myself thinking negatively of another woman, I try to catch myself and I ask myself what insecurity in myself is that woman's presence bringing up for me? I believe that any judgments we pass on others is simply projection of our own shadow onto other people in the world. I believe we have to look at our own shadow to find what needs healing in us.
There was a time in my life, when I loved wearing dresses, skirts and high heels. I felt comfortable in them and they gave me a certain confidence, that I lacked of, when wearing my glasses and the jeans/shirt-combo. You can say: I'm a victim of the beauty myth.Now, I've passed the 30 and it's the opposite: flats, a loose trouser and a blouse are my favourite - they make me feels strong and powerful, because I don't have to watch, that my skirt doesn't ride up. But I still can't attend gatherings with people who matter (e.g. work, parties etc., although to go shopping without make-up is fine) without any make-up on. I try to be very minimalistic, but I always wear some foundation and mascara. It's almost like I'm preparing myself for the challenges of the day. Sometimes (especially when it's summer), I'd love to go without, but somehow I can't. Last weekend I attended a wedding and I hated to put on make-up, because it was darn hot. When I told my sister, that I considered going without, she was horrified and she wasn't the only one, who told me: 'But you HAVE to put on make-up! You can't go without to a wedding!' This incredulous tone... It made me realise, how much we're still in this hamster wheel. And although I feel comfortable now wearing clothes that aren't tight fitting (although I always seem to need something as a shield, a bit more masculine clothes nowadays), I just can't seem to overcome the urge, to put on make-up every day I'm going to work. I think, there's this urge inside me to be presentable - the question is: presentable to whom?
Being yourself is a process and I do think, it has a lot to do with how old you are. As a child it's so hard to realise, that you don't have to meet the 'standard' that society forces on you. Saying 'no' and finding you're own way, is something you have to learn and put into action, but I hope that there will be a growing awareness among society and that more and more parents will be able to show their children, that you don't have to fit in, if it isn't right for you, whether it concerns clothes, make-up and even the dreadful 'Where's your boyfriend?'- or 'Don't you want children?'-questions.
Maybe one day, I'll be able to be myself and do exactly what I feel is right. Hopefully it won't take another 30 years....
I just thought of one more thing. I go swimming twice a week in an indoor swimming pool, and before you go in the water, you have to shower. There are private showers, but most people just use the shared ones, since there are way more of those. (Men together, women together) Regularly seeing other ordinary women naked has changed my body imagine more than I could have ever imagined. So I guess what I'm saying is, in order to beat the beauty myth, take more showers together!
Erin wrote: "I'm a victim of the myth just like any other girl - I've never worn makeup for anything but special occasions, so I thought I was rebelling. But sure enough, I've felt at competition with other g..."
I think that most of us have been victims of the myth in one way or the other. This book was a big eye opener, I've never dieted, when I exercise I do it because it reduces built up tensions (physically and mentally) and not to be leaner, but I realized that that's mainly laziness and not that I don't feel like certain parts of my body should be leaner. We mentally torture ourselves because we have a bit of fat, because we have breasts that are too large/small, because of our hair (s -all of them-), we can be too tall or not tall enough... there are so many flaws we can find in ourselves and others that it's impossible to make a list.
You said "I'm not going to stop shaving or refuse to wear makeup to make my point... I like the feeling of those things (probably because of the myth). What can we do, day to day to help protect not only ourselves but even men against the myth?" I think that the best way to make your point is by being you. If you like shaving and wearing make up than do it! But do it because you feel like it and not bearing in mind what someone else will think or say about it, and knowing that you are not compelled to do those things. Up until now, my laziness acted as a protective shield against the myth: I won't waste hours exercising to have the "perfect" body, when I wear make up I don't invest more than 5-10 minutes on it, I dress in clothes that I feel comfortable in -be it a dress, a skirt, jeans, etc.-, I don't shave if I don't feel like it, you get the point. After reading the book I'm consciously doing it because it makes me feel good with myself, with who I am. I'm forcing my brain to delete the false image of perfection and learn to accept and like the body it inhabits ;)
Surround yourself with true friends who will accept you as you are and not pester you about losing weight if you're in the healthy weight range. Choose a partner who likes you for who you are and how you are. And as for family, don't be afraid to shut them up. You are the owner of your body, nobody else gets a say on it, unless there are real health issues involved.
Felicia, I haven't been on this forum in a while, but I have to disagree with your statement "Also, I talked about this with one of my very clever friends, and she said that we should stop telling little girls we meet how pretty they are..."There is nothing wrong with complimenting children, regardless the sex. Telling a little girl she's pretty isn't a bad thing, but it shouldn't be the -only- thing. Perhaps we can combine that physical aspect with others.
As I said in another forum, 'It isn't the mind that attracts the people around you, it's your physical appearance." People don't get to know the real you until you've been introduced by your appearance.
I told my daughter she was pretty every day. More importantly, I told her 'I love you', everyday. Thinking yourself pretty leads to having a good attitude about yourself which is critical to your self esteem.
Having been called ugly for so many years, My self esteem was so lo, I really didn't care whether I lived or died. I became the perfect soldier. It was only after I was wounded in Beirut that i began to understand that being pretty was not so important.
My daughter is very pretty, she is a well-grown 23, and is delivering her second child any day now. It really doesn't matter what she looks like, to me she will always be beautiful, to her boyfriend, she is beautiful and to her soon-to-be-born daughter, she is the most beautiful thing in the world.
I hope iu haven't insulted anyone by this post.
David Larkin
David, you didn't offend me in the least.I would like to state, just for the record, that I do not think we should call girls ugly either, and I definitely know how that can be hurtful. ('Hurtful' is not the right word here; the English word is just completely gone from my head at the moment.)
And I think it's okay to tell a girl she's pretty, just as long as it's not all she hears. You talk like a father who loves his daughter. I also have a father who loves me and who told me everyday how pretty I was. To this day, I still feel pressured to look good when I see him - even though, rationally, I know he would never want me to feel that way. Do you also tell your daughter everyday how she's clever, healthy, someone to be listened to, a force to be reckoned with?
When I say "Don't tell girls how pretty they are", what I actually mean is: Don't have that as your default compliment.
I think you telling her everyday that you love her, like you said, is definitely an amazing thing.
Felicia wrote: "David, you didn't offend me in the least.I would like to state, just for the record, that I do not think we should call girls ugly either, and I definitely know how that can be hurtful. ('Hurtful..."
Thankyou for sharing, David. It was very moving to read your comment.
This thread brought back to my mind a poem I read a while back, from a book called Milk and Honey by Rupi Kaur:
“i want to apologize to all the women i have called beautiful
before i’ve called them intelligent or brave
i am sorry i made it sound as though
something as simple as what you’re born with
is all you have to be proud of
when you have broken mountains with your wit
from now on i will say things like
you are resilient, or you are extraordinary
not because i don’t think you’re beautiful
but because i need you to know
you are more than that”
― Rupi Kaur
Excellent advice on Dr. Renee Engeln's Psychology Today's blog (author of Beauty Sick)https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/...
I recommend bookmarking it, to check for updates.
Also, her webpage is http://bodyandmedia.com/ (Body and Media Lab)
Her primary recommendation, and I do all of this, is to not care if you are beautiful or not. Of course, be mindful of hygiene, and if involved, it's because you don't mind the money and time, yet to not care too much or not at all. Also, to ask your friends to not say, "You look so beautiful," and to not initiate or return such a compliment. Because it feeds the myth/sickness. In addition, if a woman (or girl or teenager) is trying to not think about it, if they overhear you (or read the comment), you have then caused them to think about it, and more than likely, feel the negative effects of it.
Erin wrote: "I'm a victim of the myth just like any other girl - I've never worn makeup for anything but special occasions, so I thought I was rebelling. But sure enough, I've felt at competition with other g..."
I think one of the things I like the most about the Beauty Myth is that it has sparked so many discussions and thoughts. Everyone has some forms of unconscious bias bred from societal norms and expectations. This book and so many others from OSS make us think about our initial reactions to certain things, bringing our bias into light so we can evaluate it and work to not act on it and change the way we think.
Wow, I really love that poem. Thank you for sharing this Ana.Thank you David for sharing your thoughts and experience as well. Congratulations on the soon-to-be-born grandchild!
Thank you, Felicia, Ana Paula and Robert. Felicia; I agree especially with your 'default' statement. Perhaps we can start out by saying "She's intelligent, talented, driven and beautiful."
Ana Paula; I agree here too. Nobody likes being called ugly. it automatically puts one on the defensive. there are people who are physically stunning while at the same time, they are decietful treacherous and cruel. It would be interesting to discover how many people male and female who have been advanced simply because of their looks. In Hollywood, there are very few 'ugly' actors, despite many having the same or better acting talents; and so, the beauty myth is being perpetuated, even though it might be unintentional. By the way, I loved the poem by Rupi Kaur. Can i use it?
Robert; Thank you for your congratulations (though I think they should properly go to my daughter, as she did all the work) Alice Roxanne was born at 14:08 today (7 Sept 2017. She's seven pounds eleven ounces and twenty inches long. She has blue-grey eyes and wispy blondish-brown hair and squeaks like a little kitten as she breathes. (I'm told this is normal) She's absolutely adorable...but then, I'm biased. Something I taught Deannamarie, is 'QUESTION EVERYTHING!' Hopefully we can teach this to Alice and her sister Annabelle (kidnapped in 2016) when we get her back.
A happy grandfather and a tired daughter,
David and Deannamarie Larkin
David wrote: "Thank you, Felicia, Ana Paula and Robert. Felicia; I agree especially with your 'default' statement. Perhaps we can start out by saying "She's intelligent, talented, driven and beautiful."
Ana P..."
Congratulations on the new family member!
As for the Beauty Myth:
We can and will change it - it only needs some time!
I for myself hate wearing dresses and skirts, I am not sure if I even still have some or have donated them all to people who are more happy with them. Same with make-up - my ex-girlfriend applied some make-up on me once and it felt so strange to me (and I felt actually a bit ugly), that I know this is definitely not a thing for me.
The best thing I can ever remember about shaving and middle school and girls was the following: My dad and I watched a lot of cycling races together (I still do if I have the time, there is nothing better than hearing helicopters fly around and see how the cyclers pull through the beauty of France;) ) and therefore it was totally normal for me to see men with shaved legs... Now when I came into middle school and all the girls started shaving I was totally confused, I really was. Why would they shave? They didn't have to, I mean, cyclers shave for other reasons than beauty. I was star-struck that one could actually do it for other reasons than to prevent injuries and that stuff.
What I want to say is: I think watching cycling races as a 4-year-old up to 17-18-year-old might have actually protected me from that part of the beauty myth in a lasting way.
MeerderWörter wrote: "Now when I came into middle school and all the girls started shaving I was totally confused, I really was. Why would they shave? They didn't have to, I mean, cyclers shave for other reasons than beauty. "Ahaha funny aside, as a competitive swimmer, all of the team used to have shaving parties before competition. There's nothing quite like 6 guys in speedos in a hotel room, covered in shaving cream, shaving each other's backs and their own legs. So I know the feels. It's quite nice to wear pj pants with shaved legs tho
Robert wrote: "Wow, I really love that poem. Thank you for sharing this Ana.Thank you David for sharing your thoughts and experience as well. Congratulations on the soon-to-be-born grandchild!"
Dear David,
Back to a couple of things from this discussion:
1. What you said about
"Ana Paula; I agree here too. Nobody likes being called ugly. it automatically puts one on the defensive. "
reminded me of Emma's interview of Marjani Sartrapi on Vogue. This is an excerpt from what Marjani said:
"I have to tell you that when I was a child, my mum used to tell me all the time: “Oh, you should never count on your face; count on your intelligence. I don’t care if you get married or not. I want you to study and to be economically independent.”
Now, as a child I thought she was actually telling me: “You are extremely ugly, you are never going to make it. You shouldn’t even try to be cute . . . the cause is lost and no matter what, nobody is going to marry you so at least try to be bright!”
Which in turn reminded me of something my mother told me when I confronted her on my early 20's about certain power abuse episodes from when I was a teen (nothing to do with beauty.) She told me in tears that she had no idea her actions had left such deep scars, and how she recognized that she messed up, and how being a parent had been a terrifying experience in which she didn't know most times what she was supposed to do, but the one thing she could say in her defense is that, mistakes and everything, she was always doing the best she could possibly do.
This was an priceless gift she gave me, because it opened my eyes to people's struggles with right and wrong, and about parenting. I am not a parent, but I carry that with me like a talisman to help me understand people.
What I am trying to say with all of this is, there will be surprise consequences of saying to children they are beautiful as well as saying they are intelligent. Where there is cause there is effect. But in any case, loving parents are loving in that they are doing the best they can, screw-ups and everything.
The other thing is when you asked
" By the way, I loved the poem by Rupi Kaur. Can i use it?"
She is a Goodreads author and this poem in on her page (just scroll down a bit, it is the first quote)
https://www.goodreads.com/author/show...
So I suppose yes, it is meant to be shared. She also had that on her instagram feed for the International Women's Day, each line in a different language.
(all of the underscored above is a link to the video. It is quite lovely)
Hello everyone!I am a new member and just finished reading The Beauty Myth. This discussion has been quite insightful.
I wanted to share a quote from the popular Hunger Games series (by Suzanne Colins):
"I am not pretty. I am not beautiful. I am as radiant as the sun."
This quote really really resonates with me. For a major part of my life (till I was 17ish, I am 25 now) the word ' beautiful' didn't emotionally bother me at all. I grew up in a family where my parents never told me I was beautiful (in a good way I mean, like it didn't matter at all). They just wanted me to study and work hard (Asian parents expectations, I guess). So, later when somebody actually called me pretty or beautiful when I was a child, I'd always be surprised, as to why would even someone think of that.
With growing up I certainly have internalized the beauty myth to some extent, but I sometimes I think I have a core inside me, so to say, which tells me that all of this doesn't matter, and I am really grateful for that. In my head, it is also kind of mixed with parents' love which is rather unconditional and so it really doesn't matter whether I am 'beautiful' or not.
In college I had a friend who told me that her parents would tell her a story in which there is a 'white' princess in a 'white' castle who would be rescued by a prince.
[To clarify, I live in India, where a lot of people still have colonial mentalities towards skin colours ( i.e. fair people are 'beautiful', dark people are from the lower castes usually and the caste system really makes the problem even worse)]
And this friend of mine was quite dark, so she really felt that she wasn't 'beautiful' and kind of developed an inferiority complex towards it.
Probably, had she been read out different stories which're progressive it wouldn't have become such a problem.
I just wanted to show that parents' roles, especially during early childhood, are very important in beating this beauty myth.
(Perhaps, we should ask for suggestions of progressive children's books from everyone.)
Emma wrote: "Suriti wrote: "Hello everyone!I am a new member and just finished reading The Beauty Myth. This discussion has been quite insightful.
I wanted to share a quote from the popular Hunger Games seri..."
Did just that, thanks for the idea ( a little excited since it's my first thread :) )
But sure enough, I've felt at competition with other girls, I've told myself that other girls wouldn't want to be my friend because I'm not as good looking as them, I've told myself I'm human garbage because I wasn't lean (I'm not even overweight!!), I've cried in the mirror thinking I'll never be equal, I've panicked that my boyfriend won't love me if I don't try and shield him from the 'pretty girls' and I've feared that once I start aging I'll be obselete. I'm just as much a victim as girls who go under the knife.
The Beauty Myth wasn't exactly my favourite book, but it definitely got me thinking... but I can't figure out how to discourage it, other than thinking critically and being aware of it.
I'm not going to stop shaving or refuse to wear makeup to make my point... I like the feeling of those things (probably because of the myth). What can we do, day to day to help protect not only ourselves but even men against the myth?