Christian Theological/Philosophical Book Club discussion

Great quotes Ned.

"...theologians who have been sitting there for centuries."

Brings a tear to my eye, and a smile.

"In the beginning, Elohim/Theos/God created the heaven and the earth."

Not one Christian here gave one iota of independently verifiable anything to back up the very first biblical verse.

It's a statement that it really happened.

It's a statement that the Elohim did the creating.

No one ever demonstrates that the Elohim did the creating.

If it was true, you would expect it to be a simple matter to demonstrate that the Elohim are "God" and that the Elohim created the heaven and the Earth.

But no, all we ever get is a vast amount of smoke and deflection and "philosophy" and "what sort of evidence do you want" and discussion of science, and a whole lot of avoidance of directly addressing that there is not a shred of independently verifiable anything to back up the declaration that "In the beginning the Elohim created the Heaven and the Earth".

It's creation mythology, very much like the creation mythology of any other culture.

But, as had been pointed out above, it's worth considering the mythology as allegory.

And then you don't run into so much conflict with reality.

But if you accept that Genesis 1:1 is not reality, what do you do with the virgin birth and the miracles and the resurrection and the second coming with armies of exterminating angels?

Much of the obviously unbelievable bits of Christianity are being swept under the altar by many Christians.

When are all Christians going to be honest enough to admit they are dealing with human fantasy ...

And allegory ...

And political propaganda

And not the "Word of God" at all ...?

Stuart wrote: Not one Christian here gave one iota of independently verifiable anything to back up the very first biblical verse...."

My response: ABSOLUTELY FALSE!

Evidence That Demands a Verdict

The New Evidence That Demands a Verdict: Fully Updated

Evidence That Demands a Verdict, 2

More Evidence That Demands A Verdict: Historical Evidences For The Christian Faith

etc. etc. etc. etc. etc.

Robert wrote: "Stuart wrote: Not one Christian here gave one iota of independently verifiable anything to back up the very first biblical verse...."

My response: ABSOLUTELY FALSE!

[book:Evidence That Demands a ..."

OK - the standard "fob him off onto the books" trick ... again and still

Copy one sentence from one book that gives one iota of independently verifiable anything that confirms the claim that the Elohim created the Heaven and the Earth.

Stay exactly on topic and give a direct and honest answer.

And don't play diversion tricks.

Just one sentence from one of the books.

And then the 1600 years of biblical scripture you've also been diverting attention away from ....

And then I'll buy and read all the books, and give the first tenth of my income to pastors ... and would-be pastors who want to make their living from this.

Just one sentence.

Shouldn't be difficult.

But it has to be independently verifiable.

Otherwise it's just a belief.

And believing Brahma, or Ahura Mazda, or Allah, or the Elohim with all their varying "scriptures" created the universe, doesn't make any one of them factual.

Or you could just admit it's creation mythology.

Stuart wrote: "Copy one sentence from one book that gives one iota of independently verifiable anything that confirms the claim that the Elohim created the Heaven and the Earth..."

My response: I asked you first. You CLAIM to have read MANY such books. I requested proof from you... and you went into create a diversion mode. Most likely because you are lying and cannot provide the requested information.
_______________________

So... do some reading... rather than just claiming to have done some reading!

Evidence That Demands a Verdict

The New Evidence That Demands a Verdict: Fully Updated

Evidence That Demands a Verdict, 2

More Evidence That Demands A Verdict: Historical Evidences For The Christian Faith

etc. etc. etc. etc. etc.

Robert wrote: "Stuart wrote: "Copy one sentence from one book that gives one iota of independently verifiable anything that confirms the claim that the Elohim created the Heaven and the Earth..."

My response: I ..."

As I thought - not a sentence

Just the childish "I asked you first".

If you had a sentence - you would present it and shut me up ....

Stuart wrote: "As I thought - not a sentence Just the childish "I asked you first"...."

My response: I DID ask you first. You demonstrate that your CLAIMS ARE FALSE

It is NOT surprising that the GODLESS LIE... there is no moral reason for you not to.
_______________________

So... do some reading... rather than just claiming to have done some reading!

Evidence That Demands a Verdict

The New Evidence That Demands a Verdict: Fully Updated

Evidence That Demands a Verdict, 2

More Evidence That Demands A Verdict: Historical Evidences For The Christian Faith

etc. etc. etc. etc. etc.

Perhaps someone else can present a sentence or two that can be independently verified as confirming (in any way at all) that the Elohim created the Heaven and the Earth ...?

And not try and deflect me away to books they know fine well give no such specific confirmation.

It's a cheap trick.

Genesis 1:1 is the beginning of mythology.

The biblical writings are not the "Word of God".

Stuart wrote: "Perhaps someone else can present a sentence or two that can be independently verified as confirming (in any way at all) that the Elohim created the Heaven and the Earth ...?

And not try and deflec..."

Perhaps you can quote some of the many books you have FALSELY CLAIMED to have read.

I trust the bible because there's nothing else to trust - certainly not dead rotting meaningless atheist corpses being eaten by worms. Their science desperately confirmed how purposeless and short their existence was... their tired old sun will eventually burn out - nobody will care.

God has meaning and a plan. I'll take it.