SciFi and Fantasy Book Club discussion

There is often debate, it seems, about these two words. Some people think that it's everyone's responsibility to help keep content from being stumbled upon for a certain period of time after the content is released, others take the stance that every individual is responsible for steering clear of any unwanted information.

Then, there's determining what constitutes a spoiler? Is it anything that has to do with more of the book than can be gleaned from the cover, title and blurb? Is it anything having to do with any of the plot? Just the A plot?

And finally triggers, common things that are known to upset people. Is identifying them a spoiler or a help for people who've experienced trauma (or just don't like reading about certain types of scenarios)?

What do you think? Do you have any personal rules about giving spoilers or trigger/content warnings?

Interesting questions and one I often think about when I write reviews (rants).

I know I often spoil things for other people. It is not my intention but half the time I forget what the blurb says or I'm so passionate about a character that I will give away things he/she does pertaining the plot. Because of that I never try to read reviews of a book I know I want to really read (Six of Crows for example). I'm a fast reader and can scan texts very fast. So basically anything can be a spoiler when scrolling through reviews..

Triggers:
I like trigger warnings. I read a lot of fanfiction and it helps me to avoid things I really don't want to read. But I don't get bend out of shape if a story/book does not have them.

Still I will say... Personal example: I don't like the slave narrative. At all. Not even in science fiction or fantasy. But I do enjoy a bdsm story now and then. A lot of bdsm stories have the slave narrative in them. Some with characters that give consent. Some that is a bit... iffy = dubious consent. With content warnings I can avoid the stories that I know will not enjoy. And thus rage quit and leave a one star review.

And I just realized I have absolutely no personal rules about giving spoilers or trigger/content warnings.... (O_o)

Avoid spoilers at all costs.

Provide content warnings whenever possible, because there's no need to make other people's lives more painful.

I agree with Trike, exactly. If I have the opportunity to be nice / helpful / compassionate, I will be. And I am grateful when others do the same for me.

" others take the stance that every individual is responsible for steering clear of any unwanted information. "

These 'others' seem to be thinking that they're responsible for making the sensitive individuals mature into being able to take that responsibility. Um, no, I have myself and have had my parents already, and I don't need them to tell me that I need to 'man up' or 'get a grip' or whatever. And simply steering clear is not that easy.

I've managed to avoid actual spoilers for everything that matters to me. I really dislike it when people talk about a book in an otherwise non-spoilery way, but then they say something like "that twist was so unexpected!" or "when you get to the end your mind will be blown!" or "wow chapter 17!", etc. That will drastically change how I read the book and I think it lessens the enjoyment of discovering those twists and surprising moments yourself, same as any other spoiler.

I often don't even read the blurbs, they're too spoilery sometimes. I like going in as blind as possible. Well I read it before adding the book to my TBR, but I don't read it again before I start the book, unless I can't remember why it's on my TBR. I just have a general feel of the book in my memory, but no details.

Anna wrote: "I've managed to avoid actual spoilers for everything that matters to me. I really dislike it when people talk about a book in an otherwise non-spoilery way, but then they say something like "that t..."

I've done this before- it never occurred to me that might be bothersome to some people (sorry!). Usually I do the "Twist was so unexpected" in a thriller/suspense type book where I assume people already know there's some kind of twist coming. Anyway- noted!

I consider spoilers to be anything plot/event related beyond the first few chapters of the book. For example, in Mr. Mercedes I talked about the identity of the killer in my review. This would probably be considered a spoiler in a plot that's supposed to be a mystery, except it was literally revealed in the second chapter. I think if it's revealed that early in the book it's just not that central to what is keeping the reader turning the page and is therefore not a spoiler.

I try to limit my reviews/discussions to talking about writing, plotting/pacing, amount of action or inaction, characterization, etc. If I absolutely must include a spoiler (usually because something happened that warrants discussion) I hide it in spoiler tags.

I do think trigger warnings are important, but I tend to forget to include them in my own reviews. As for those reviewers who think it's a reader's responsibility to avoid them, I think this is silly. The whole point of writing a review is to help other readers decide whether or not to read that book, right? So if you don't include spoiler warnings, you're essentially defeating the purpose of your review, IMO.

Personally, I don't care about spoilers. Tell me everything if you like, it's not WHAT happens in a story that makes a book/movie/TV show enjoyable, it's how they tell it and how you get to the end through the story.

There are exceptions, of course. Like stories where there is a huge twist/final reveal at the end which puts the whole rest of the story in a different light. That is almost always the case when a book is written using the unreliable narrator trope.

Knowing others hate them, though, I try to steer clear of them myself in reviews and discussions. But on the whole I think a lot of people are just too sensitive to spoilers. But to each their own.

Trigger warnings I have a problem with. Not that I'm against them at all but just how is one supposed to know everything to warn against? I mean rape, curse words, using the name of someone's Lord in vain, sex, homosexuality ... those are all things we could expect to offend some people, but I would not have thought about slavery (it seems obvious when someone calls it out but since I don't write about it I simply would not have thought to include it in a list of "this is what you warn against").

[joke]
If you list all possible trigger warnings a story might contain it could end up sounding like the adverse reaction lists jammed onto the end of pharmaceutical commercials:

Caution: this book may use or contain references to curse words, sex, gay people, spiders, confined spaces, open spaces, doorknobs, politics, religion, financial institutions, schoolhouses, parents, children, dirty diapers, paper cuts, fingers scraping across blackboards, surfing, bad hair days, bodily fluids and gaseous emissions, Wankel rotary engines ... etc.
[/joke]

Trike wrote: "Avoid spoilers at all costs.

Provide content warnings whenever possible, because there's no need to make other people's lives more painful."

I try to review in this manner.

I can't always avoid spoilers so I try to use spoiler tags as much as possible. When posted to my blog, I'll often note in the subject heading the fact that there are light (or heavy) spoilers.

Triggers: I really appreciate trigger warnings and try to use them myself. And it upsets me when someone tries to shame others for using them or wanting them. There was a big dust up at one time where [some] authors were getting pissy about trigger warnings - mostly because what Cheryl said: they feel this will "mature" the reader and/or trigger warnings ruin their work, flow, etc.

I call bullshit.

I have a very vivid imagination - which is why I don't watch a lot of TV/Movies. I picked up one "romance" where a character gets dragged out of a bar and gang raped in the first chapter.

O_O da fuck??

And I reamed that book in my review because NOTHING in the blurb said anything about non-con in the work. The author and I had a dust up - she claimed the warning was there but it didn't need it because "it wasn't that bad." She was proven wrong by several people that the warning was NOT there. And I was like - Who the fuck are YOU to tell me how I feel???!

Ugh. I had the crap stuck in my head for days. *shudder*

Really good thoughts, everyone.

Micah, the thing with content warnings and trigger warnings is that content warning is for the big buckets, sort of like you mention. It's not uncommon for people to be uncomfortable with rape, like MrsJ said, so giving a content warning for rape is helpful. Getting them all isn't critical, chances are collectively people will mark it with the biggies. If not, then we can do trigger warnings.

Trigger warnings tend to be more specific--the thing that actually causes someone to relive or experience trauma. So, for example, knowing now that Ada dislikes slave narratives, I might add her particular concerns to things I'd tell her about a book. Because you're right, you'll never guess what sorts of things will make every person uncomfortable. I had a friend in a terrible car accident, and watching movies with car accidents doesn't bother him, but watching people driving in snow does. So, my content warning might be "car accident," but for him, my trigger warning would be "in the snow." That's a lot more personal and just about being kind to people we know well.

Ada wrote: "Interesting questions and one I often think about when I write reviews (rants). I know I often spoil things for other people. It is not my intention but half the time I forget what the blurb says ..."

Ha! I completely agree that trigger/content warnings are really helpful. Because sometimes I'm not in a headspace to deal with the things that upset me. And sometimes just the heads up that it's going to happen is enough for me to read it as presented without feeding anything of my own into it, you know?


Trike wrote: "Avoid spoilers at all costs.

Provide content warnings whenever possible, because there's no need to make other people's lives more painful."

(+1! but I'm trying to be objective so don't tell anybody ;-) )

Anna wrote: "I've managed to avoid actual spoilers for everything that matters to me. I really dislike it when people talk about a book in an otherwise non-spoilery way, but then they say something like "that t..."

I think this is a good distinction, Anna. I know I don't like spoilers, so I also don't read reviews etc. But, when I'm scrolling through and someone says "I can't believe Billy killed her!" that raises my rage index. Cmon! Avoiding reviews is enough work.

Sarah wrote: "I consider spoilers to be anything plot/event related beyond the first few chapters of the book...."

Very interesting distinction, Sarah! So, is it mostly just a judgment call about whether or not it's close enough to common knowledge? (I ask because I do something similar :-) )

MrsJoseph wrote: "Ugh. I had the crap stuck in my head for days. *shudder* "

Wow. I'm so sorry!

Allison wrote: "Micah, the thing with content warnings and trigger warnings is that content warning is for the big buckets, sort of like you mention. It's not uncommon for people t..."

The OP doesn't really address the context of where these spoiler/trigger things are to be addressed. (Note of course that I was being flippant in the last bit of my previous post.)

Context: If we're talking about discussions between people who know each other, then it's far easier to address triggers and spoilers. If we're talking about reviews or forum discussions with strangers ... it's much harder to do other than on a less granular scale.

However things that don't bother me, like curse words, homosexuality or sex in general, I'm unlikely to point them out unless they are used in a way I feel is gratuitous, demeaning, or hurtful (to a group of people or to the story itself). Other big triggers like rape, torture, and slavery I think would be fairly obvious to talk about as they tend to be major elements in the storytelling or the psychological makeup of the characters.

Micah wrote: "Context: If we're talking about discussions between people who know each other, then it's far easier to address triggers and spoilers. If we're talking about reviews or forum discussions with strangers ... it's much harder to do other than on a less granular scale. ."

Oh, for sure, excellent point.

Normally, I try to give trigger warnings for the big things: rape, torture (beyond butt kicking) and death of animals.

TBH, I only try to warn for things I think could cause a nightmare or a setback in some way. After that, most of the time its based around a moral point of view vs a "nightmare" PoV. Morals are so varied and hedged about in greys that I allow that to go.

Not to say I won't comment on something, just it wouldn't be mentioned as a trigger warning. Like cursing: I curse a lot so if I get surprised by a large amount of cursing, the book is probably one big F-bomb. I won't trigger warning it but I will comment on it. To complain.

Also I will comment on terrible word choice: I read one book where the author's favorite word was "had." Every other word was "had" including a couple of "had hads." Drove me bananas.

Another author fell in love with the word "Gawd." As in "Oh my Gawd." *faepalm*

I don't want to derail the thread, but I actually think Micah's side note is valid. In *my* opinion, books in which the journey is more interesting than the destination are more worth my time. In other words, if the 'twist' is the only reason to read the book, then maybe the book should be just a short story, or movie, or maybe even skippable.

So when I do wind up reading something that's dependent for its appeal on a twist or reveal, I try to be even more careful not to reveal spoilers, and not to let potential readers know that there is a big one.

Likewise I'm more likely to talk about reread potential or even to reveal (early) developments if the book is written in such a way that the craft of structure leading up to the solution or reveal is the best reason to read the book. I'll still take care to let the new reader have her own experience, of course, but at the same time I am trying to convince them to read the book and so I want to say something in praise of it... and that something might be a bit spoilery.

Just saying.

Allison wrote: "Sarah wrote: "I consider spoilers to be anything plot/event related beyond the first few chapters of the book...."

Very interesting distinction, Sarah! So ..."

Yes, you put it much more eloquently than I did, but that's how I feel about it. If it's available there in the blurb or in the first few chapters of the book, I don't consider it a spoiler.

And I do agree with the notion that the journey of getting to the spoiler is more fun than the spoiler itself, but I still like to get there on my own for the most part. It would never prevent me from reading a book, but it does lessen my enjoyment of it somewhat.

Yeah, I do think I agree largely with Micah, Cheryl and Sarah that saying *nothing* is hard to imagine or perform, so there must be some sort of line or judgment call, likely. I think the big question then is more "what's a spoiler?" Because there are some people who just don't want that twist given away, and others who don't want to hear anything about what happens in the plot after the first couple pages, and people who don't even want to hear more than "I liked/didn't like it."

I agree this is also much easier in book reviews, because you can reflect before you send it out into the world, and people who are super adverse to spoilers of all kinds likely aren't reading reviews before hand unless in this case it's more important to them to know something than to go in cold, right? Maybe?

Way harder in social media at large and conversation, especially for things like TV and movies. It sounds like so far we have people who think anything you can't read in one brief sitting (ish) might be a spoiler, some who find general comments about events happening to be spoilers, and some who just don't want the Big Reveal given away. Any other thoughts? What is that line for you and what happens if it's crossed on purpose or accidentally?

Sarah wrote: "I've done this before- it never occurred to me that might be bothersome to some people (sorry!). Usually I do the "Twist was so unexpected" in a thriller/suspense type book where I assume people already know there's some kind of twist coming. Anyway- noted!"

This is more for those books where a twist isn't typically expected. For example (spoilers for The Fifth Season):

(view spoiler)[ "You will NEVER guess how the three POVs are connected!"

That would leave the reader guessing instead of just enjoying the story and figuring things out for themself. Although in this instance, in my opinion, the 'twist' was easy to guess and guessing it early didn't matter very much, because it's one of those cases where the journey is more important than the twist.
(hide spoiler)]

Anna wrote: "Sarah wrote: "I've done this before- it never occurred to me that might be bothersome to some people (sorry!). Usually I do the "Twist was so unexpected" in a thriller/suspense type book where I as..."

Like Micah, I don't really care about spoilers but try to be sensitive to other people's need to avoid them. Unfortunately, when people's definition of spoilers is very broad, reviews become too general for me to the point where I find them useless. I would define spoilers as revealing the ending or plot twists. I understand why people have problems with such spoilers even though I don't care about them myself. But I often like to deal with the author's concept, themes or worldbuilding when I review F&SF, and it seems like many readers consider those things spoilers. For me, the failure to include them would make my review worthless.

Re trigger warnings-- When I feel strongly about it myself and the content that I'm warning about seems extreme and obviously triggering to a great many people, I have no problem with including a warning.

MrsJoseph wrote: "Normally, I try to give trigger warnings for the big things: rape, torture (beyond butt kicking) and death of animals..."

It's always so amusing to me when people find the death of animals in fiction so much harder to deal with than the death of people. I completely agree with this feeling, I've just always found it interesting.

And triggers can be so varied. I have a friend who absolutely cannot read anything where a child dies. Same with shows and movies. She just simply can't take it. She almost had a panic attack in a movie because there were kids heading to their deaths. It didn't even show them dying, and the children had no clue that's what was going to happen. But she knew and it was enough.

Knowing her reactions make me appreciate when trigger warnings are shared.

Spoilers are definitely very subjective. For me a spoiler is a major plot point. However, I do sometimes get annoyed when someone pulls the whole "You're not going to believe what happens to so and so!" Because then I anticipate it forever.

Kristin wrote: "Spoilers are definitely very subjective. For me a spoiler is a major plot point. However, I do sometimes get annoyed when someone pulls the whole "You're not going to believe what happens to so and so!" Because then I anticipate it forever. "

Brings to mind the pre-publication publicity of HP5 and "someone dies". The book felt undermined because a) it strips out the surprise, and b) it felt like JKR decided to play with that publicity in mind with the number of near-death experiences of characters being disproportionate to the rest of the series. The book felt the worse for it because of that spoiler, even if it was relatively innocuous.

Donald, yes, exactly.

Micah, I agree with you 100%. I am so not bothered by spoilers that I often actively look up books on Wikipedia to see what happens. To me, the joy is in tge journey. That's probably why I reread a lot, too.
Of course, I realize that not everyone is like me and so I avoid spoilers in my reviews.

At a time I considered spoiler if a movie was ultrapopular or not since it set my expectations and I often found not really good a movie that was supposed to be great and enjoyed a said bad movie.

I still find spoilers are fine if they are about the beginning or quite generic or ok if they are hidden behind some tags. I usually avoid spoilers but it can be found in generic threads unrelated to the book, that's how I learnt about the death of a HP character only days after the book was released without any spoiler warning,

I think in the first reading the pleasure to be surprised, to discover and to try to guess is really important and it isn't only about the end.

I used to not read book reviews before I read the book but I think it is fine to do it here since most GR reviews hide their spoilers so I only read the not hidden part of the reviews.

It's knotty. I think anything in the first three chapters or 50 pages usually can't be considered a spoiler, because it's a premise (and you've got to give *something* away).

Triggers are also difficult. General ones are probably given away by the genre and description (if it's grimdark fantasy then it's almost certain to have violence and possibly also frisky time, as well as swearing). More specific triggers might be impossible to account for both because they could be spoilers and because there are simply so many, and some are of concern only to a very small number of people.

I can't tell you titles, because I'm trying hard to forget, but more than once a book was described as "beautiful" and it had the surprise of child abuse in it. Not Lolita, but more modern books. I think child abuse is of concern to a lot of people. And no matter how beautiful the writing (or whatever) I don't want to read books that portray it.

Mmph. Someone keeps encouraging me to read Lolita and I just...don't wanna.

I have a spoiler timeframe I try to adhere to!

In public (i.e. anywhere someone who doesn't want to know might accidentally find out) I don't discuss:

-Movies for at least a month (for blockbusters) or 6 months (for less popular films)

-TV shows for 2 days after their latest airing (though I try to aim for a week)

-Unless they are extremely popular or over 100 years old, I never discuss books outside of things like reviews or one on one. Popular books get at least a year.

Unless of course I've asked everyone around if they're cool hearing about it. Which means I do NOT go to restaurants after movies to talk them down, and will shut up entirely if even one person says "I haven't seen/read it yet."

I feel like if someone lets a minor thing slip after the next episode has aired, or Netflix has released it or the next in the series of something huge (like Harry Potter) hits shelves, that's not as hurtful. You tried. People had an opportunity to see it wholly unspoiled. At that point, as long as you're not revealing the big thing or being obnoxious about it, I think it's forgivable.

I'm trying to go through some of my reviews, because I definitely talk about the book in my review. I set expectations for what I liked and didn't like, but I don't think I usually discuss any plot points unless they're supremely obvious, like things in the Foreword, or huge broad strokes (this is a classic quest fantasy. He's a magician) etc.

Allison wrote: "Mmph. Someone keeps encouraging me to read Lolita and I just...don't wanna.

I have a spoiler timeframe I try to adhere to!

In public (i.e. anywhere someone who doesn't want to know might accident..."

I don't have such concrete numbers but I try to do the same thing with spoilers.

I consider anything that surprises me a spoiler for the most part. Unless it's more than obvious by the genre as Thaddeus says.

I think you're right, Mrs. J. Anything surprising I try to avoid.

One of the problems with the Internet is being spoiled in article headlines. That happens all the time and just yesterday I saw a headline that spoiled Sunday night's episode of Game of Thrones.

That sort of thing is just aggravating for fans.

Trike wrote: "One of the problems with the Internet is being spoiled in article headlines. That happens all the time and just yesterday I saw a headline that spoiled Sunday night's episode of Game of Thrones.

T..."

Yes. I agree!!!

Trike wrote: "One of the problems with the Internet is being spoiled in article headlines. That happens all the time and just yesterday I saw a headline that spoiled Sunday night's episode of Game of Thrones.

T..."

It's so awful. It's like headline writers all revert to being able to keep secrets like a 4 year old. "I got you a present! It isn't (view spoiler)[Ned Stark's head on a pike (hide spoiler)]! *giggle*"

Thaddeus wrote: "possibly also frisky time..."

Off topic, but this phrase made me chuckle. :)

On topic, Game of Thrones and Supernatural spoilers coming across my social media feed inspire a very special kind of rage in me.

Kristin wrote: "Supernatural spoilers coming across my social media feed inspire a very special kind of rage in me"

Spoilers for next season of Supernatural: Sam and Dean almost die but don't. They stifle man-tears and end up hugging.

Trike wrote: "Spoilers for next season of Supernatural: Sam and Dean almost die but don't. They stifle man-tears and end up hugging. "

OMG. You have no idea how hard this made me laugh. Hubby watches this show but the shark jumping and I don't get along.

Though Cassiel is so cute...

Trike wrote: "Spoilers for next season of Supernatural: Sam and Dean almost die but don't. They stifle man-tears and end up hugging. ..."

Oh definitely. Probably at least once per episode. :D I don't care that it is often formulaic, I love it anyway. I wouldn't even call it a guilty pleasure, because I have no remorse.

Mrs. J - Cas is indeed quite adorable.

At this point spoilers for Supernatural are less "Guess who died." and more "Guess who actually STAYED dead."

They still bug me though.

I'm a fan of the show, so I kid because I care.

Trike wrote: "Kristin wrote: "Supernatural spoilers coming across my social media feed inspire a very special kind of rage in me"

Spoilers for next season of Supernatural: Sam and Dean almost die but don't. They stifle man-tears and end up hugging."

This made me laugh so hard.

But about content warnings and spoilers. I use my shelves on goodreads as a kind of content warning and I kind of treat the shelves of other reviewers the same. It declines the chance to read something spoilery.

Kristin wrote: "At this point spoilers for Supernatural are less "Guess who died." and more "Guess who actually STAYED dead."

They still bug me though."

Damn but the Spn fandom has the best gif comebacks.

I try to avoid spoilers in reviews - or, at least, I make prodigious use of the spoiler tag in some reviews.

In person I find it easier because I can always just ask whoever I'm talking to whether they've seen/read X and whether or not they care about being spoiled if they haven't.

I had an issue with Broadchurch recently because someone sort of spoiled Season 1 for me by telling me something about the whodunit. They didn't tell me who it was, but they said something which they didn't consider spoilerish which I did because it was enough that I was able to cross out a lot of suspects... and I do feel that that hampered my enjoyment of the series. (Though the last 2 eps were really good regardless.)

As for triggers...

Triggers are hard because, as has been said, a lot of triggers are by their nature somewhat spoilerish. Like, speaking of child death... there's a popular kids book which has that as a big event at the end. You couldn't warn someone about it without also giving away a large part of the ending.

So usually I'll try to put some triggers in, if something jumps out at me to warn people about - but I'll also put them behind a spoiler tag.

Something like, "There are some potential triggers in this book. They include (view spoiler)[ whatever they include (hide spoiler)]". That way people who read my review can decide whether they care more about potential triggers or spoilers.

Trike wrote: "Spoilers for next season of Supernatural: Sam and Dean almost die but don't. They stifle man-tears and end up hugging. "

Sorry. Couldn't resist. Our Gif game is the pride of the fandom.

colleen the convivial curmudgeon wrote: "Something like, "There are some potential triggers in this book. They include (view spoiler)". That way people who read my review can decide whether they care more about potential triggers or spoilers.

I think that's a great way to handle triggers on Goodreads.

Like you said, in person is definitely the best way. Because you can just ask if they care about spoilers or if they have any triggers. I hadn't thought about using spoiler cuts for triggers before.

Steve wrote: "Micah, I agree with you 100%. I am so not bothered by spoilers that I often actively look up books on Wikipedia to see what happens. To me, the joy is in tge journey. That's probably why I reread a..."

I do the same ... and I ALWAYS click the spoiler alert links!

It's so awful. It's like headline writers all revert to being able to keep secrets like a 4 year old. "I got you a present! It isn't [Ned Stark's head on a pike (hide spoiler)]! *giggle*" .."

See? TOTALLY clicked that link!

haha!

Trike wrote: "One of the problems with the Internet is being spoiled in article headlines. That happens all the time and just yesterday I saw a headline that spoiled Sunday night's episode of Game of Thrones.

T..."

Yep. Funnily enough the "clickbait" system of headlines actually IMPROVES spoiler avoidance because they avoid any information in the headline to try and get you to click into the article. However my local newspaper's website doesn't really understand clickbait headlines - they try, but they are the main culprit for still putting spoilers in headlines that I come across. Social media is a separate issue.

All written from the POV of someone who doesn't watch GoT but wants to read the future books largely spoiler-free. The frustrating thing was book readers were generally polite enough to avoid spoiling the TV show for watchers. The reverse doesn't seem to be getting extended.

Kristin wrote: "colleen the convivial curmudgeon wrote: "Something like, "There are some potential triggers in this book. They include (view spoiler)". That way people who read my review can decide whether they ca..."

colleen, yes, I like that strategy, thank you.

Donald wrote: "Trike wrote: "One of the problems with the Internet is being spoiled in article headlines. That happens all the time and just yesterday I saw a headline that spoiled Sunday night's episode of Game ..."

Donald yes!! I wanna be like listen MFers. I've been sitting on this shit for OVER A DECADE, y'all can keep your tweets to yourselves for a freakin' hour. Sorry, this is a personal pet peeve. Also, sad and hilarious that your newspaper is not doing clickbait right. I'm imagining all these well trained journalists taking social media classes from millenials, hoping to God they're meme-ing right.

Colleen, that's a really good method, and I think I'm going to adopt it.

Allison wrote: "but I don't think I usually discuss any plot points unless they're supremely obvious, like things in the Foreword"

I missed this earlier but I hate spoilers in Forewords! Why do people do that. I'm about to read the book, stop talking about it like I've already read it. Do an Afterword.

Kim wrote: "Allison wrote: "but I don't think I usually discuss any plot points unless they're supremely obvious, like things in the Foreword"

I missed this earlier but I hate spoilers in Forewords! Why do pe..."

lol! I don't usually read forewords, but I know what you mean. When the blurb is actually a synopsis of the whole damn thing I wonder to myself if I can count this as a book I've now read.