Fantasy Buddy Reads discussion

A companion to the top 10 series now thread.

Not why you specifically chose any one series but what makes a great series for you. You can obviously use references to series to explain.

1. Epic - I want things to be on a grand scale. The reason why Stormlight Archives makes the top two and nothing else by Sanderson does is because of the complexity of that world. There's gods connected to heralds, connected to glyphs, connected to surgebinders, connected to....I spent hours researching all the connectivity of this world to keep it straight. I just love that the author built this complicated world.

2. Variation - I love LOTR. For it's day there was nothing like it. I can read something like The Shadow of What Was Lost and love it however it's never going to make my top ten. It's a classic read. Reading something like Manifest Delusions where the magic system is built around clinical disorders and being taken on a mind warped adventure that is so different you're blown away by the possibilities. Offer me something I haven't seen or thought of before.

3. Cultural diversity - I love knights and all that. Who reading this genre doesn't? But I can't read only that. I don't just want a different setting it has to be more. The body language built into Long Price Quartet where it offered the subtlety and nuances built into a physical language blew me away.

4. Feel the Magic - It didn't make my list because I just finished book one but in The Fifth Season the author doesn't just tell you the character made the earth move or the seas rise. She gave you the sensation of doing it. That is so supremely different.

5. Empathy - It has to be there for me on some level to make it to the top. It takes a lot for me to feel for the characters. I saved Malazan for this one because dozens of times I wanted felt my chest crushed under the weight of Erikson making you love a character only to do something unthinkable to them. Or a character doing something so unthinkable you wanted to leap into the pages and kill them yourself.

I think some of the other things like action are pretty obvious so I'll stop at these 5. It will be interesting because the answers will be pretty diverse. Some will pick a love interest or at least a main character to fall in love with or something I've neglected to think of.

My brain isn't firing on all cylinders atm so I may need to come back to this one but off the top of my head

-complex characters: nobody is 100% good or 100% bad. Show me who they really are (Daniel Abraham is the KING at this)
-world building: I definitely can recognize when the author has actually built the world in their head, vs adding shit in just because you have to (Scott Lynch)
-a great motherfucking villain. Need I say more?

This is a good thread! I'm thinking about it and I'll post at least my top five within the next day. I really liked what you said about feeling the magic - that is so huge for me if I'm going to read and enjoy a fantasy book. Sanderson does this really well. This was my biggest pet-peeve with the Powder Mage trilogy, because the magic system felt very under-explained and lacked that sensational aspect that you mentioned.

Margret wrote: "a great motherfucking villain.."

LOL, absolutely. That was part of my anti-empathy part. I still want to hunt down Mallick Rel.

Margret wrote: "world building: I definitely can recognize when the author has actually built the world in their head, vs adding shit in just because you have to (Scott Lynch)"

I'm slightly confused. Are you listing Lynch as an example of a great world builder, or as one who just throws stuff in because he has to? I've never considered him a topnotch world builder, but I also wouldn't say he's terrible at it. Maybe one standard deviation below average, if I had to rate him on that criteria alone.

WRT the original post, I can't say I've ever considered what criteria I'd apply to ranking my top 10. And that's odd, because I'm the same guy who keeps a running Top 25 Series list in an Excel file, complete with data on # of books written in the original series, any "secondary" or spin off series, etc. But on a whim, I'd say my criteria is:
1. Entertainment. I enjoy good literature, but let's be honest. Reading, especially fiction reading, is a hobby. And if your hobby isn't entertaining, then it's time to get a new one. I know this is a hard category to clearly define, but the #1 thing for me is how much I enjoy the series on the first read-through. A few other ways of defining this are whether or not I found the series to be a "page turner," how quickly I found myself wanting to jump into the next book after completing the previous one, and if I skipped sleep/social engagements/responsibilities to read instead.
2. Nostalgia. In a nutshell, do I look back on the series and have a deep gut longing to read it again? When I do re-read it, does it feel like sliding on a favorite pair of old loafers (in a good way)?
3. Epic. I'll steal Scott's criteria, and just say I'm a sucker for grand scale stories. There's just such a sense of accomplishment when finishing a 14 book series that covered 10,000+ pages and 500+ characters. And if an author can write a series like that and still keep it highly entertaining, then said author's series will likely rank high on my list.

Andrew wrote: "I'm slightly confused. Are you listing Lynch as an example of a great world builder, or as one who just throws stuff in because he has to? I've never considered him a topnotch world builder, but I also wouldn't say he's terrible at it. Maybe one standard deviation below average, if I had to rate him on that criteria alone. ."

I don't think the world Lynch built was necessarily unique if that's the criteria however he creates very vibrant locations and the thing I like about it most is he does so while entertaining. A lot of authors don't do it while telling the story at the same time.

I think he is one of the greatest at world building. Wasn't clear. Apologies I'm all flipped upside down from being on nights and my brain isn't firing on all cylinders

For example- the Sinspire in Red Seas Under Red Skies.. how amazing was that?

I've been thinking about this all day and still haven't come up with a full answer. Luckily I hurt my back over the weekend so will have another day of sitting around tomorrow to think about it.

Hope you get better soon Bill. Back injuries can be very painful. I did my lower back two months ago and it's just coming right now.

Poor dude. I broke my back years ago (just compression fractures, nothing serious just needed physio) and it still bugs me!

So take care I hope you feel better right away

Thanks Angela and Margret. It should be better in a few days at least I hope so. :)

:( no bueno. I hope it feels better soon. Try to make the best of the extra day off.

Bill wrote: "I've been thinking about this all day and still haven't come up with a full answer. Luckily I hurt my back over the weekend so will have another day of sitting around tomorrow to think about it."

Ouch, hope it's better soon. I've been dealing with a neck issue for over a year.

Alright, here's my personal top five. Some of these kind of merge together in my mind, based on my own personal taste, and last four are in no particular order of importance. They're all kind of equally important to me, excellent for number one..

1. Characters. #1 Most important thing to me. Characters make or break a book for me. I can hate everything about the book I'm reading, but if I feel invested in the characters, I will keep reading. Orson Scott Card kept me reading the Ender books because I wanted to find out what happened to the characters. Sanderson keeps me reading because he has obvious skill in making believable, real life characters in his fantasy stories. I also love having multiple POVs, because this really digs me into the individual characters of a story, and it always impresses me when an author can weave multiple different POVs into a great story.

2. Story/Plot/Villain. Gotta have a good story and plotline for the characters to shine and keep me at a point of maximum interest. The Golem and the Jinni, though I became frustrated with it towards the end, had such a good plot developing at the beginning that I tore through half of it within a 48 hour period.

Plot development is accompanied with a good villain, in my mind. I could never get into Sauron, in spite of the fact that he is probably the #1 literary villain in history. His presence in the story never helped me get into it because we know almost nothing about him. There is nothing that makes him even remotely human. Voldemort, in direct contrast, is one of the most well developed characters in the Harry Potter series, which is SUPER uncommon for a villain. We get almost an entire backstory for him throughout all seven books, which really makes you feel the weight of the evil he became. A good villain corresponds with a good plot to me.


3. Writing/Pacing. I love good writing. Name of the Wind honestly doesn't have a mind-blowing story (or at least, the story is very slowly developed), but the writing is so freaking good that most people love it regardless. Combine quality writing with well-paced writing, and you can make up for lack in a lot of other areas.

4. Convincing and Believable Magic. This obviously applies only to fantasy, because I read a lot of non-fantasy as well. But I hate when I'm reading a fantasy book and the magic makes me roll my eyes or feel like I need to suspend my logical faculties to appreciate it (ie. in Powder Mage when the magic they use is based upon wearing gloves and moving the right fingers.... just didn't feel believable. Way too simple). Sanderson is great at this, because he makes you really feel what it is like to use the magic. What I've read of Erikson from BoF the magic is also excellent and well-developed (though unbelievably complex).

5. Originality: Tolkien copy-cats will almost never earn high praise from me. I love reading original, yet believable, books.

Great answers Andrew and Liam.

Why aren't there more people on this thread? This thread is Da Bomb.
Are we allowed to tag people to post here? Or is trash talk the only way to reel them suckas in?
Ok...I tag everyone who is in my first ever Buddy Read + everyone who is going to read Abercrombie with me + wtf, everyone should just get on here.
Also I note @Bill's cunning evasion and hope his back is better.

Margret wrote: "For example- the Sinspire in Red Seas Under Red Skies.. how amazing was that?"

I already liked you. And then you go reading my mind like alla dat...

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I'm torn between reading my book and composing my reply. Weak! I'll read now and post whenever. This spot reserved by giant purple alpaca.

Liam wrote: "1. Characters.
2. Story/Plot/Villain
3. Writing/Pacing.
4. Convincing and Believable Magic.
5. Originality"
I totally agree, though the order is not ccompletely fixed. I would add the characters and plot must also be convincing and follow a logic path all through the book/series. E.g. Assassins not killing anyone or 'evil' characters turning good all of a sudden with no explanation doesn't work for me. The same with sudden og complete all-comsuming love. Keep it in the romance novels.
As a 6. I would add uncertainty/surprise/suspense. The book/series are just better if I cannot guess (all of the time) where the author is going.